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CW Flash Revision

ByArrow said:
How? Even if we didn't do this, we're already cross-scaling. Furthermore, if this will cause a problem, it will cause a problem whether we perform this unify or not, because even if we don't the unify, we are still doing cross-scaling.
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Yes, in a normal way. If we brought these verses into one people would start suggesting that Snyderverse Superman should be relative to Arrowverse Superman and thus Arrowverse Supergirl. Obviously that’s not allowed, so why not avoid that by simply not bringing them all under the same umbrella verse.
 
Hixkaryana said:
Yes, in a normal way. If we brought these verses into one people would start suggesting that Snyderverse Superman should be relative to Arrowverse Superman and thus Arrowverse Supergirl. Obviously that’s not allowed, so why not avoid that by simply not bringing them all under the same umbrella verse.
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If someone were to suggest this, they would have already done so based on the statement on the DCEU's verse page: “During the 2019 Crisis on Infinite Earths crossover event, the show was retroactively set within one of the infinite Earths of the Arrowverse.” Therefore, this argument is not a strong one. And besides, it can be said that this cannot be done with just one small note.
 
Well other than that I don’t think this would lead to any other issue, so feel free to create the megaverse 🧍‍♂️
 
Just make this its own seperate CRT if you want to propose it, its wholly seperate from the current stat revision that this is
 
Official DC Website Says
The CW’s recent “Crisis on Infinite Earths” crossover event exposed more people than ever before to the concept of DC’s Multiverse—the expanse of differing “Earths," each with their own unique makeup of superheroes and villains. The idea of the DC Multiverse isn’t new, but at least until very recently, it also wasn’t well known outside of the comic book faithful. And while The CW miniseries filled in most of the broad strokes, we couldn’t blame anyone new to the idea for being a bit lost or at least having a few questions.

For example, how many Earths are in the Multiverse? Are they really infinite? Did the Crisis on Infinite Earths comic create the DC Multiverse? What’s the point of the Multiverse? And is the Multiverse we've seen on TV the same as the one in the comics?
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Which brings us to The CW’s “Crisis on Infinite Earths.” Inspired heavily by the 1985 comic miniseries, the CW event greatly expanded DC’s live action Multiverse to an extent we’ve never seen before. Along with finally adding Black Lightning to the Arrowverse, it also suggested that other past and current DC movies and TV shows like Titans, Lucifer, Smallville, Superman Returns and even Tim Burton’s Batman exist within the same shared space. This isn’t the Multiverse of the comics, but its own unique take on the idea with its own near-limitless creative potential.
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Next year, Andy Muschietti’s The Flash will expose more people than ever before to the concept of DC’s Multiverse—the expanse of differing “Earths," each with their own unique makeup of superheroes and villains. The idea of the DC Multiverse isn’t new, but at least until very recently, it also wasn’t well known outside of the comic book faithful. Last year, The CW’s “Crisis on Infinite Earths” miniseries brought the Multiverse to the screen for the first time, and with its cameo by Ezra Miller as the theatrical universe’s Flash, served as a sort of prologue for Muschietti’s upcoming DC blockbuster. Still, not everyone saw “Crisis on Infinite Earths,” and even among people who did, we couldn’t fault anyone for being a bit lost or at least having a few questions.
Click to expand...
Which brings us to The CW’s “Crisis on Infinite Earths,” the upcoming Flash film and the idea of a live-action DC Multiverse. The CW event greatly expanded DC’s live action Multiverse to an extent we’ve never seen before and The Flash seems likely to take this notion and blow it wide open. With both Michael Keaton and Ben Affleck returning as Batman, Miller’s previous “Crisis” cameo and the creative team’s comments about how the movie will give birth to “the cinematic DC Multiverse,” it’s clear that The Flash will at least open the door to some big screen world-hopping. And much like what we saw on “Crisis,” this won’t be the Multiverse of the comics, but its own unique take on the idea with its own near-limitless creative potential.
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Miller, when he wasn’t comedically showering us with “Flash Facts” about…pretty much everything, offered the most enticing promise: Of all the DC movies, this one’s important because it opens the same door that the Flashpoint miniseries did in the comics, allowing many of the distinctly different versions of DC characters that we’ve seen in movies and TV over the years to start to collide. As Hodson promised, “The cinematic DC Multiverse is going to be born out of this movie.”

While the movie hadn't yet started filming, so there was no teaser of any sort, Muschietti did give us our first look at the Flash’s new suit from the film (above), which is built by Bruce Wayne and is much sleeker-looking than his original Justice League suit.
Click to expand...

According to the Official DC website; the Arrowverse, DCEU, Lucifer, Teen Titans, and many other DC Cinematic Films exist in the same space under the name "The Cinematic DC Multiverse". And they confirmed that this multiverse is not the same one as in comics.
 
You cant argue with the official source right? They literally said that the Multiverse of Live Action DC Films' name is "The Cinmeatic DC Multiverse". What are you against to?
 
Okay
Since we're doing that, does that mean that the individual verse pages should be nuked?

Honestly, even though they are technically in the same verse, for scaling discussions, we should keep them separate
If nothing else, to make the page less bloated and easy to understand
Since the new DCU and DCEU intersect via peacemaker, they're also going to be included on the same page as Arrowverse characters
Which can be confusing asf for visitors
We can have a general explanation page for the Multiverse whatever
 
Testarossa002 said:
Okay
Since we're doing that, does that mean that the individual verse pages should be nuked?
Click to expand...
I think yes.
Testarossa002 said:
Honestly, even though they are technically in the same verse, for scaling discussions, we should keep them separate
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Scaling discussions can continue in the forum thread for that part of the verse. So threads like the DCEU general discussion threads will remain open, and the new verse page will have links to these thread in the section dedicated to these sub-verse.
Testarossa002 said:
If nothing else, to make the page less bloated and easy to understand
Since the new DCU and DCEU intersect via peacemaker, they're also going to be included on the same page as Arrowverse characters
Which can be confusing asf for visitors
We can have a general explanation page for the Multiverse whatever
Click to expand...
With a properly written note section and keys, I think a very understandable page can be created.
 
Dalesean027 said:
my reasoning to be against is that it's combining different verses who have characters who never interact with each other even if you want to consider it a unified cosmology that are all on one verse page instead of already having their separate verse pages like we already have

Like the MCU doesn't do this. It just acknowledges the other universe does exist (like Spiderverse or the Tobey Maguire films), and if a character appears in the MCU, then they can make it to the MCU verse page.What this is proposing is that no matter whether they appear or not in the arrowverse that they are entire verse will be listed on that verse page
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Okay. That makes sense. I retract my potential acceptance then. 🙏
 
Dalesean027 said:
Just make this its own seperate CRT if you want to propose it, its wholly seperate from the current stat revision that this is
Click to expand...
Dalesean027 said:
Again make this its own CRT where proper staff can give input, these has nothing to do with the current stat revisions and requires more opinions since you're trying to merge like 5 or 6 verses
Click to expand...
Also agreed. 🙏
 
Antvasima said:
Okay. That makes sense. I retract my potential acceptance then. 🙏
Click to expand...
I already responded to Dale's comment. The situation here is not the same as that of the MCU. And as I said, what I'm suggesting is just to follow what the DC official site says.
 
Dalesean027 said:
Again make this its own CRT where proper staff can give input, these has nothing to do with the current stat revisions and requires more opinions since you're trying to merge like 5 or 6 verses
Click to expand...
I will. I think this should be a staff thread so could you give me permission to open a thread about this?
 
I created the thread.
vsbattles.com

Creation of "the Cinematic DC Multiverse"

This discussion started here, and I was told to create a separate CRT. @Dalesean027 and I agreed that this should be a staff thread. I got permission from @Dalesean027 to create this thread. The Bigger Multiverse (Arrowverse + DCEU + Lucifer, Batmans etc.) named Official DC Website Says The...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I remember vividly that creating (or destroying) a timeline by going back in time and making a different set of choices does not grant a specific tier, which would mean that Barry can't be 2-C
 
Hixkaryana said:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I remember vividly that creating (or destroying) a timeline by going back in time and making a different set of choices does not grant a specific tier, which would mean that Barry can't be 2-C
Click to expand...
In most cases, the destruction or creation of the timeline is a natural consequence of going back in time and changing something, and is not a consequence dependent on the characters. Therefore, characters do not gain any tiers when they go back in time and change something.

However, this is not the case with the Arrowverse Speedsters. In the Arrowverse, the creation and destruction of timelines is not a natural consequence of traveling back in time and changing something. The natural consequence of traveling back in time and changing something is the creation of a temporal wave that alters the timeline. But if a Speedster makes the same change, the situation changes completely, and a new timeline is created and the old one begins to erased. So, creating a new timeline, and erasing the old one is a special circumstance entirely dependent on the Speedsters' powers. That's why they got this rating in the first place.
 
ByArrow said:
In most cases, the destruction or creation of the timeline is a natural consequence of going back in time and changing something, and is not a consequence dependent on the characters. Therefore, characters do not gain any tiers when they go back in time and change something.

However, this is not the case with the Arrowverse Speedsters. In the Arrowverse, the creation and destruction of timelines is not a natural consequence of traveling back in time and changing something. The natural consequence of traveling back in time and changing something is the creation of a temporal wave that alters the timeline. But if a Speedster makes the same change, the situation changes completely, and a new timeline is created and the old one begins to erased. So, creating a new timeline, and erasing the old one is a special circumstance entirely dependent on the Speedsters' powers. That's why they got this rating in the first place.
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I see what you mean, but countless characters have demonstrated the ability to create new timelines and erase old ones, and that still hasn’t been considered enough to warrant a tier. Even if Speedsters bypass the usual ‘temporal wave’ mechanic by directly forming new timelines, their influence is still ultimately tied to cause and effect. The difference is that their actions carry a stronger impact, but the process isn’t entirely independent of external causality.
 
Hixkaryana said:
I see what you mean, but countless characters have demonstrated the ability to create new timelines and erase old ones, and that still hasn’t been considered enough to warrant a tier.
Click to expand...
As I said, most of them don't have explanations or mechanics and demonstrations that would give them a tier.

DCEU Flash has 2-C Environmental Destruction rating because he causes the collision and collapse of alternate realities as a result of time travel. So we give Tier even with Time Travel.
Hixkaryana said:
Even if Speedsters bypass the usual ‘temporal wave’ mechanic by directly forming new timelines, their influence is still ultimately tied to cause and effect. The difference is that their actions carry a stronger impact, but the process isn’t entirely independent of external causality.
Click to expand...
It has nothing to do with them having a stronger impact. For Time Waves to occur, the event must be of a significant magnitude, and even then, a new timeline is neither created nor destroyed. Even when legends cause a time vortex, a time vortex occurs when time folds back on itself; no new timeline is created or destroyed. Because this incident has nothing to do with the impact.

And Speedsters hold this rating as an Environmental Destruction rating.
 
ByArrow said:
As I said, most of them don't have explanations or mechanics and demonstrations that would give them a tier.
Click to expand...
You could have as many explanations as one may want and the creation would still be fully dependent on causality, unless stated otherwise.
ByArrow said:
DCEU Flash has 2-C Environmental Destruction rating because he causes the collision and collapse of alternate realities as a result of time travel. So we give Tier even with Time Travel.

And Speedsters hold this rating as an Environmental Destruction rating.
Click to expand...
You shouldn't base yourself on DCEU Flash's profile when it clearly lacks evidence of what it states.
ByArrow said:
It has nothing to do with them having a stronger impact. For Time Waves to occur, the event must be of a significant magnitude, and even then, a new timeline is neither created nor destroyed. Even when legends cause a time vortex, a time vortex occurs when time folds back on itself; no new timeline is created or destroyed. Because this incident has nothing to do with the impact.
Click to expand...
As I've said, the result still relies on the chain of cause and effect. Other characters might trigger temporal waves or vortices rather than creating new timelines, but in every case the alteration comes from an external change in events. The expression for each is different, but the mechanism behind it is exactly the same.

I also faced this argument when I was doing Max Caulfield's profile.
 
Hixkaryana said:
You could have as many explanations as one may want and the creation would still be fully dependent on causality, unless stated otherwise.

You shouldn't base yourself on DCEU Flash's profile when it clearly lacks evidence of what it states.

As I've said, the result still relies on the chain of cause and effect. Other characters might trigger temporal waves or vortices rather than creating new timelines, but in every case the alteration comes from an external change in events. The expression for each is different, but the mechanism behind it is exactly the same.
Click to expand...
Speedsters hold this rating as an Environmental Destruction rating. Because the Speedsters' actions are causing the destruction of Timelines and Universes.
 
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