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- #41
do you agree
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Cw Flash 2A Upgrade
- Thread starter InfNoyan
- Start date
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- 15,084
- 21,611
Yeah this doesn't work. I agree with ByAsura.
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- Thread starter
- #43
What is the reason for joining it?
Williams249
He/Him- 54
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You can put me on neutral. Saw two major counterarguments to the OP, which where the "infinite earths ≠ infinite universes" thing & Barry just disrupting the pulse, thereby closing the breach before he impacts the supposed Multiversal DC attack. I'll be addressing both, & hoping to convince, in which case it doesn't, then I'd be on a disagree
Testarossa002
Username Only- 1,677
- 1,689
Season 3 episode 22
They needed 3.8 Terajoules (not even up to 1 kiloton) to power the speed force bazooka.
It's emphasized repeatedly that they can't get a power that great from anywhere aside from the dominator's tech.
Barry had to time travel (breaking multiple promises) to get Snart to help him steal it from ARGUS
Why go through allat if he can produce infinite energy on his own?
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I totally agree
Williams249
He/Him- 54
- 33
So yeah. I'm just trying to make all the variables to make an inform choice on agreeing or disagreeing.
So first, the "infinite earths ≠ infinite universes" thing. While it may make sense, it might just be referring to the literal individual earths, as in planets, we need to revisit why exactly that may be the case. As already established in the verse, earths & universes are interchangeable not just semantically, but allegorically. Earths has always been the centerpiece for whatever event they adventure in the multiverse. So it does make sense to ascribe the designation of that whole universe, as "Earth". So, basically they've always been "saying" that universe is a planet (earth) to them. Now, let's factor in human psychology into this seemingly awkward equivalence. Obviously, due to recurrent usage it becomes ingrained in their subconscious, needing no intuition regardless of 'context'. Now, note, obviously there are exceptions, & 'context' here is in strict reference to cosmological situations, such as this. Is this all head canon with no veritable basis? Maybe, maybe not. But let's see this; here, during COIE, the anti matter wave sweeps across the universe & destroys Earth-1. A universe was destroyed, but Earth-1 was stated, & notice how the determinant a universe was destroyed was the destruction of that earth! That Earth is obviously not at the far edge of the universe whatsoever, since the wave sweeps laterally across. Furthermore, we had the Anti Monitor stating he's destroyed "infinite earths", (in same link) which were actual universes. So we can see what I just stated about the subconscious isn't even limited to humans, but is something recurrent & of course, prevalent in the whole show.
Next, the "breach" argument. It's worth noting what we define attack potency as in the wiki, & it's distinction from destructive capacity. Sure, Barry did close the breach before the transdimensional energy went on. But how did he do this? He had to build his own pulse to counteract that of the Magnetar, just enough to shift it out of phase & close the breach. Said pulse of the Magnetar had the potency to destroy the multiverse. The breach was simply an aid to transmit the energy inter-dimensionally. Also, saying the pulse/energy wasn't "charged enough", would grossly make Zoom's, "bye bye multiverse" statement useless, as that implied it was indeed complete or at least nigh-completion. Frankly, this whole argument hinges on an actual depiction of a collision with said energy, which us brings us back to the distinction between AP & DC. It being potentially capable is just fine.
So yeah, I'd like a counterargument from the "opposite" parties, & also note, I'm simply fostering an understanding & I'm on "neither" side atm.
So first, the "infinite earths ≠ infinite universes" thing. While it may make sense, it might just be referring to the literal individual earths, as in planets, we need to revisit why exactly that may be the case. As already established in the verse, earths & universes are interchangeable not just semantically, but allegorically. Earths has always been the centerpiece for whatever event they adventure in the multiverse. So it does make sense to ascribe the designation of that whole universe, as "Earth". So, basically they've always been "saying" that universe is a planet (earth) to them. Now, let's factor in human psychology into this seemingly awkward equivalence. Obviously, due to recurrent usage it becomes ingrained in their subconscious, needing no intuition regardless of 'context'. Now, note, obviously there are exceptions, & 'context' here is in strict reference to cosmological situations, such as this. Is this all head canon with no veritable basis? Maybe, maybe not. But let's see this; here, during COIE, the anti matter wave sweeps across the universe & destroys Earth-1. A universe was destroyed, but Earth-1 was stated, & notice how the determinant a universe was destroyed was the destruction of that earth! That Earth is obviously not at the far edge of the universe whatsoever, since the wave sweeps laterally across. Furthermore, we had the Anti Monitor stating he's destroyed "infinite earths", (in same link) which were actual universes. So we can see what I just stated about the subconscious isn't even limited to humans, but is something recurrent & of course, prevalent in the whole show.
Next, the "breach" argument. It's worth noting what we define attack potency as in the wiki, & it's distinction from destructive capacity. Sure, Barry did close the breach before the transdimensional energy went on. But how did he do this? He had to build his own pulse to counteract that of the Magnetar, just enough to shift it out of phase & close the breach. Said pulse of the Magnetar had the potency to destroy the multiverse. The breach was simply an aid to transmit the energy inter-dimensionally. Also, saying the pulse/energy wasn't "charged enough", would grossly make Zoom's, "bye bye multiverse" statement useless, as that implied it was indeed complete or at least nigh-completion. Frankly, this whole argument hinges on an actual depiction of a collision with said energy, which us brings us back to the distinction between AP & DC. It being potentially capable is just fine.
So yeah, I'd like a counterargument from the "opposite" parties, & also note, I'm simply fostering an understanding & I'm on "neither" side atm.
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Which is irrelevant in this scenario.
AP is generated energy, destructive capacity is what specifically you can destroy. This means that AP can sometimes not scale to destructive capacity, but it doesn't work the other way round because that makes literally 0 sense. Like you can vaporize a city with enough energy to smite a country, but you can't destroy a city without enough energy to destroy a city.
Also, even if you want to apply this argument to discount all the AP anti-feats, there's still loads of DC anti-feats.
Not to mention the fact that this blatantly isn't DC. This was generated by energies, with a device that amplifies energy, and stopped in a similar manner by someone whose powers work by generating vast amounts of energy.
He didn't counteract the Magnetar's pulse at that stage, he counteracted his counterpart and Zoom's energies that went into the Magnetar. Zoom's plan was to destroy the multiverse with the pulse, explicitly a 'single' pulse.
You're misunderstanding my argument.
The argument is that the energy didn't undergo amplification, at which point the actual multiverse destroying pulse would've launched and replicated what Cisco saw in his visions.
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ByAsura's argument makes sense.
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Apart from the thoroughly outlined issues pointed out about the feat, Flash having infinite power contradicts virtually the entire series.
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- Thread starter
- #51
Ok, do you want to discuss this issue with me?
- 52
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- Thread starter
- #52
the accumulated energy is infinite let me explain to you like this in order to destroy something you have to be equal to it or stronger this is what you have appeared there "You can vaporize a city with enough energy to destroy a country but you can't destroy a city without enough energy to destroy it" you unintentionally supported my argument because
infinite multiverse keep this in mind 1000 multiverses 1000 multiverses are finite numbers in the infinite multiverse but you are not finite if you want you can have the power of 200,000 universes you still won't be infinite here like zoom and barry produced infinite energy for the magnetar to destroy the infinite multiverse then barry puts this energy in the H3A layer again to destroy it
accumulated energy infinite destroying the accumulated infinite energy H3A D.C
if the multiverse was finite the energy required would also be finite but the multiverse is infinite the infinite multiverse You can't stop it finitely, and that still doesn't change the H3A layer.
Hellbeast
He/Him- 5,052
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Because he's stupid
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- Thread starter
- #56
How did you get accepted?
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- Thread starter
- #58
Since there is an infinite multiverse, it must have an infinite energy to destroy the infinite multiverse. The accumulated energy destroys the infinite accumulated infinite energy. Actually, if there was a certain finite number of multiverses, for example 3, it would need an energy that could destroy 3 universes, but here it needs infinite energy. You cannot destroy something infinite with a finite power. This shows that the flash does not have a finite power.
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Cool, we agree there.
This is where we disagree.
Firstly, Barry's Time Remnant didn't accumulate any energy himself to the Magnetar. He made a separate pulse.
Secondly, it didn't affect the amplified energies, as that was explicitly a separate thing. It counteracted Barry and Zoom's non-infinite energies.
That's why they literally put the finite energy it into an amplifier to become infinite.
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- Thread starter
- #60
Now let's agree from the beginning, even if it's not h3a, it should be scaled to at least 3A anyway
1st point, the time residue stores its energy accumulation by running around the magnetar's energy storage area and even creates a pulsar that can resist its infinite energy
2nd point, if it is as you said, if it is infinite thanks to the magnetar, the thing that stops the extradimensional multi-wave coming out of the magnetar's phase is the pulsar of the flash, the data destroys not only the shock wave but also the infinite energy
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If we're saying it can be 3-A (which I don't think is true, btw), a finite number, then the entire point is out the window because there's no orders of infinity involved.
I'm not going to bother with the rest, as I've gone over this a million times already. I'm just going to bed.
I'm not going to bother with the rest, as I've gone over this a million times already. I'm just going to bed.
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- Thread starter
- #62
if they can't reach a common ground on this, the easiest way is because we have been arguing since the morning and now let's end it
you explained but what you explained is wrong you explained and I explained to destroy an infinite energy H3A can be taken can you prove to me that the exit there is not infinite
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