Cw Flash 2A Upgrade

[InfNoyan]

CW Flash 2A D.C

It is stated that the device we call the Magnetor has the capacity to destroy the entire multiverse as long as there is enough kinetic energy, and on VSBW, the multiverse is classified as Tier 2A.

The ''Race''
And now, let me explain how Flash scales from this. Before Flash gets into a fight with Hunter, Hunter lures him into a race to charge the Magnetor's energy. Despite knowing the risk, Flash participates in the race, creating rifts between multiverses and bringing in his "Time Remnant." This is the biggest proof that the rift between multiverses had begun. After Hunter takes this energy from Flash, he knocks him down and initiates the attack to destroy the entire multiverse, saying something like "See you later, multiverse." To stop this, Flash, even at the cost of his own life, spins around the Magnetor with his own Pulsar and successfully halts the attack.

Conclusion
I believe that, regardless of any AP, Flash's DC (destructive capacity) along with the Pulsar should be 2A.

Agree: @Shiedaisthepeak @Gorkyss (High 3-A)

​

Disagree:
Neutral:

 

[Shiedaisthepeak]

I agree with all op

 

[ByAsura]

Firstly, the Magnetar is a power amplifier. If Zoom had this level of destructive capacity, why wouldn't he have just destroyed at least Earth-2 on his own?

Secondly, this makes zero sense when Flash consistently struggles against finite beings and with finite feats even at much stronger levels of power. It'd make sense if some unique and specialised ability generated the energy, but Speedsters literally use the same running energy for their lightning bolts.

 

[InfNoyan]

Firstly, the Magnetar is a power amplifier. If Zoom had this level of destructive capacity, why wouldn't he have just destroyed at least Earth-2 on his own?

Secondly, this makes zero sense when Flash consistently struggles against finite beings and with finite feats even at much stronger levels of power. It'd make sense if some unique and specialised ability generated the energy, but Speedsters literally use the same running energy for their lightning bolts.

First of all it has nothing to do with zoom because it breaks the Magnetar with the pulsar and it becomes 2A D.C from the pulsar

 

[InfNoyan]

Firstly, the Magnetar is a power amplifier. If Zoom had this level of destructive capacity, why wouldn't he have just destroyed at least Earth-2 on his own?

Secondly, this makes zero sense when Flash consistently struggles against finite beings and with finite feats even at much stronger levels of power. It'd make sense if some unique and specialised ability generated the energy, but Speedsters literally use the same running energy for their lightning bolts.

I didn't understand what you said second time

 

[ByAsura]

First of all it has nothing to do with zoom because it breaks the Magnetar with the pulsar and it becomes 2A D.C from the pulsar

Flash and Zoom have the same abilities, not to mention that Zoom literally contributed to this. If Flash has 2-A DC, then Zoom has 2-A DC.

I didn't understand what you said second time

To put it succinctly, these guys have so many anti-feats against 2-A levels of AP or DC.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

My read on this is that it probably wouldn't even be 2-A to begin with. It seems more accurate to say that this pulse was shooting through the iterations of the multiverse and wiping out the individual Earths, no? They seem to refer to the destruction of the planet, they just consider that the equivalent since it functionally, mechanically is.

If the verse has shitloads of antifeats then yeah, it goes without saying that we don't default to the highest possible interpretation. Consistency is important. But even then, I'm doubtful this would be 2-A.

 

[InfNoyan]

Flash and Zoom have the same abilities, not to mention that Zoom literally contributed to this. If Flash has 2-A DC, then Zoom has 2-A DC.

To put it succinctly, these guys have so many anti-feats against 2-A levels of AP or DC.

I would be happy if you post the anti feats and also i give scale from pulsar and there is no evidence that zoom can create its own pulsar

 

[InfNoyan]

My read on this is that it probably wouldn't even be 2-A to begin with. It seems more accurate to say that this pulse was shooting through the iterations of the multiverse and wiping out the individual Earths, no? They seem to refer to the destruction of the planet, they just consider that the equivalent since it functionally, mechanically is.

If the verse has shitloads of antifeats then yeah, it goes without saying that we don't default to the highest possible interpretation. Consistency is important. But even then, I'm doubtful this would be 2-A.

It is said that it can destroy the infinite multiverse directly and the fact that Zoom says bye bye multiverse supports this statement of mine and the destruction of the worlds in the multiverse is directly the destruction of the universe. In the 2nd episode of Crisis on Infinite Earth, there is evidence that when the worlds are destroyed, the universes are destroyed.

 

[Williams249]

I'm partially with Mr. Bambu here. Zoom wanted to measure his success by the amount of earths he's conquered, which later translated to destruction. So yeah, that could be interpreted as destroying the infinite earths in the multiverse, as that's foremost his goal before anything else.
I also see the counterpoint being, "oh, but earths are actually representative of whole universes too. So that works". This is where Sagan Standard & Grices Razor comes in. The context purports Zoom to destroy individual earths, & this is seen with his ordeal in Earth-2. He wasn't going around conquering/destroying the rest of the universe, but specifically that planet/earth. The Magnetar thing was to magnify this infinitely. This satisfies for a lower end interpretation given the presented evidence, so more would be required for anything else.

TL; Dr
I disagree with 2A until further evidence for destruction of actual universes is proffered. H3A works tho

 

[InfNoyan]

I'm partially with Mr. Bambu here. Zoom wanted to measure his success by the amount of earths he's conquered, which later translated to destruction. So yeah, that could be interpreted as destroying the infinite earths in the multiverse, as that's foremost his goal before anything else.
I also see the counterpoint being, "oh, but earths are actually representative of whole universes too. So that works". This is where Sagan Standard & Grices Razor comes in. The context purports Zoom to destroy individual earths, & this is seen with his ordeal in Earth-2. He wasn't going around conquering/destroying the rest of the universe, but specifically that planet/earth. The Magnetar thing was to magnify this infinitely. This satisfies for a lower end interpretation given the presented evidence, so more would be required for anything else.

TL; Dr
I disagree with 2A until further evidence for destruction of actual universes is proffered. H3A works tho

Now first of all, as I explained to Bambu, the universes are connected to the world. As I saw in Crisis on Infinite Earth, when the worlds are destroyed, the universes also disappear and Magnetar wants to destroy the multiverse and Harry also uses the word "destroy" in the same way.

 

[ByAsura]

My read on this is that it probably wouldn't even be 2-A to begin with. It seems more accurate to say that this pulse was shooting through the iterations of the multiverse and wiping out the individual Earths, no? They seem to refer to the destruction of the planet, they just consider that the equivalent since it functionally, mechanically is.

It's a bit jumbled, but at the very least the plan seems to destroy every planet (not just every Earth) in every multiverse by using Earth-1's natural function as an access point. They say in both the episode and subsequent stories (especially a sequel novel) that the multiverse would've been destroyed.

So, at the very least, this is High 3-A.

I would be happy if you post the anti feats

Sure. I'll be a while, though.

also i give scale from pulsar and there is no evidence that zoom can create its own pulsar

Your evidence is flawed. The counteractive pulse (which is all they call it, btw) only stopped the breach from fully forming, not the trans-dimensional pulse that would've destroyed the multiverse.

Also, it doesn't matter if Zoom can't create a pulsar. Zoom = Barry.

 

[ByArrow]

@ByAsura has already said everything I was going to say. I disagree with OP

 

[ByAsura]

These are just the ones I could think of off the top of my head (CW lives rent free in my mind, ngl).

• Flash, albeit in a somewhat weakened state, struggles unravelling tornadoes.
• Flash struggles like hell fighting the Dominator-mind controlled superheroes, especially Supergirl, whose strength is demonstrably finite.
• Cold weapons and Killer Frost's powers still nullify his Speed Force energies.
• Flash struggles to vibrate a plane.
• All of Team Flash's Speedsters have to put in effort to fight Solivar, Gorilla Grodd and their armies of enhanced gorillas.
• Flash has to push himself pretty hard to destroy DeVoe's satellite. And XS' intervention notably changes the outcome to the point of altering the timeline.
• An extremely enraged Flash only reaches finite power levels to attack Cicada.
• Flash's Speed Force energies were reduced to 5% by Jefferson Pierce.
• Season 8 Flash struggles against Despero, who has Kryptonian levels of strength.

This isn't the best evidence, but I think it's also worth mentioning that Flash's speed isn't, at any point under his own power, actually infinite in normal 3-D space. Like I said, not the best evidence, but his strength and energies are tied to his level of speed.

 

[InfNoyan]

It's a bit jumbled, but at the very least the plan seems to destroy every planet (not just every Earth) in every multiverse by using Earth-1's natural function as an access point. They say in both the episode and subsequent stories (especially a sequel novel) that the multiverse would've been destroyed.

So, at the very least, this is High 3-A.

Sure. I'll be a while, though.

Your evidence is flawed. The counteractive pulse (which is all they call it, btw) only stopped the breach from fully forming, not the trans-dimensional pulse that would've destroyed the multiverse.

Also, it doesn't matter if Zoom can't create a pulsar. Zoom = Barry.

So if it's going to be H3A, I can still accept it if I'm going to process it into my profile and zoom profile.

 

[InfNoyan]

It's a bit jumbled, but at the very least the plan seems to destroy every planet (not just every Earth) in every multiverse by using Earth-1's natural function as an access point. They say in both the episode and subsequent stories (especially a sequel novel) that the multiverse would've been destroyed.

So, at the very least, this is High 3-A.

Sure. I'll be a while, though.

Your evidence is flawed. The counteractive pulse (which is all they call it, btw) only stopped the breach from fully forming, not the trans-dimensional pulse that would've destroyed the multiverse.

Also, it doesn't matter if Zoom can't create a pulsar. Zoom = Barry.

I think it should create a pulsar when it comes to D.C.

 

[ByAsura]

Ok, why?

 

[InfNoyan]

Ok, why?

I don't understand why exactly you wrote this

 

[ByAsura]

Why should we consider Flash's counteractive pulse a pulsar of equal magnitude to the trans-dimensional shockwave?

 

[InfNoyan]

Why should we consider Flash's counteractive pulse a pulsar of equal magnitude to the trans-dimensional shockwave?

I understand, there’s no issue with him getting the H3A tier for stopping the attack, but will this be added as D.C. or as A.P.?

 

[ByAsura]

There is an issue. As I've said, nothing actually scales him to the pulsar due to the context, and he has plenty of feats proving that he has finite levels of power.

Also, he never stopped the pulsar in action. He stopped the pulsar before it formed the shockwave.

 

[InfNoyan]

There is an issue. As I've said, nothing actually scales him to the pulsar due to the context, and he has plenty of feats proving that he has finite levels of power.

Also, he never stopped the pulsar in action. He stopped the pulsar before it formed the shockwave.

I think the magnetar stopping the pulsar is a pretty good example of D.C.

 

[ByAsura]

Ok, I respect your opinion, but that's not an argument or counter to what I provided.

 

[InfNoyan]

There is an issue. As I've said, nothing actually scales him to the pulsar due to the context, and he has plenty of feats proving that he has finite levels of power.

Also, he never stopped the pulsar in action. He stopped the pulsar before it formed the shockwave.

It shows that there is action as it creates a rift in the multiverse and zoom says "bye bye multiverse"

 

[Gorkyss]

I agree with High 3-A.

 

[ByAsura]

It shows that there is action as it creates a rift in the multiverse and zoom says "bye bye multiverse"

I don't get how this supports your point in any manner.

 

[Testarossa002]

I'm currently rewatching the series and Barry isn't anywhere close to 2-A or H3-A.

At later seasons, he needed to hit Mach 20 or thereabout in order to destroy just 1 planet.
Barry as at season 2/3 was somewhere between Mach 2 and 4 at his peak
It might be a legit feat, but it's definitely an outlier

 

[InfNoyan]

I don't get how this supports your point in any manner.

There is no evidence that the action is happening, it does not stop the action before it happens, it stops it when the action starts, and this supports Zoom's statement to me.

 

[InfNoyan]

I'm currently rewatching the series and Barry isn't anywhere close to 2-A or H3-A.

At later seasons, he needed to hit Mach 20 or thereabout in order to destroy just 1 planet.
Barry as at season 2/3 was somewhere between Mach 2 and 4 at his peak
It might be a legit feat, but it's definitely an outlier

can you give me some evidence that you think is contradictory because it's certainly not a response to what I've presented

 

[ByAsura]

There is no evidence that the action is happening, it does not stop the action before it happens, it stops it when the action starts, and this supports Zoom's statement to me.

As I already explained, the Magnetar was still in the process of creating a breach. That's what this big cloud is and why it's expanding.

The pulse was in the process of powering up.

You're basically saying he countered something that hadn't happened yet because, once again, the Magnetar is an amplifier and Barry stopped it at the source, not at the effect.

 

[InfNoyan]

As I already explained, the Magnetar was still in the process of creating a breach. That's what this big cloud is and why it's expanding.

The pulse was in the process of powering up.

You're basically saying he countered something that hadn't happened yet because, once again, the Magnetar is an amplifier and Barry stopped it at the source, not at the effect.

I find myself right but there are 2 more points

The first point is that it does not have to stop the process where the multiverse exists, it was working, it says that its energy has accumulated in zoom, so logically if its energy has accumulated, it still has the capacity to destroy the infinite multiverse and Barry stops its "infinite" energy output, which gives it a scale from here

The second point is that even if there is no H3A, it has to be at least 3A, the reason is that it is ultimately stopping a machine that can destroy the multiverse, it does not have infinite energy, it is limited, 3A would be more logical without H3A

 

[ByAsura]

I'm just going to ignore what you've said because I've already gone over this repeatedly and have a new point to add; the fact is, even if you were right, Barry never overpowered anything in the first place. He altered an explicitly separate part's phase (as Wells literally identifies them as separate), causing it to not work at all.

Barry does not scale to this shit, not to mention the fact that he destroyed himself in a matter of seconds just to create this pulse.

 

[InfNoyan]

I'm just going to ignore what you've said because I've already gone over this repeatedly and have a new point to add; the fact is, even if you were right, Barry never overpowered anything in the first place. He altered an explicitly separate part's phase (as Wells literally identifies them as separate), causing it to not work at all.

Barry does not scale to this shit, not to mention the fact that he destroyed himself in a matter of seconds just to create this pulse.

I definitely do not agree with what you said, the reason is that I do not give AP or Durability, I give D.C because he dies and his death does not mean that he could not stop him or that he could not get D.C from there and he did not change his phase, he destroys the phase with the "infinite" output with his own pulsar that he "CREATED", and destroying that phase with the "infinite" output also gives him success, it is not "he does not give a shit" as you say, you have not added time stop in season 4, what I said is exactly H3A D.C I think he deserves it

 

[ByAsura]

Firstly, we don't rate characters by DC on this site. So your entire revision can't work to begin with, by your own logic.

Secondly, you can separate DC from AP, but you literally can't separate AP from DC in this case.

Third, he didn't destroy the phase outright. He created a phase that misaligned the other phase, causing the entire effect to stop functioning. Wells literally says this in the clip I provided.

Fourth, there's no mention of infinite energy anywhere at any point in the story.

Fifth, they don't call Barry's pulse a pulsar like the Magnetar, they call it a pulse. It's not officially regarded as the same thing in the story.

I don't even know what you're attempting to say with the rest of that.

 

[InfNoyan]

Firstly, we don't rate characters by DC on this site. So your entire revision can't work to begin with, by your own logic.

Secondly, you can separate DC from AP, but you literally can't separate AP from DC in this case.

Third, he didn't destroy the phase outright. He created a phase that misaligned the other phase, causing the entire effect to stop functioning. Wells literally says this in the clip I provided.

Fourth, there's no mention of infinite energy anywhere at any point in the story.

Fifth, they don't call Barry's pulse a pulsar like the Magnetar, they call it a pulse. It's not officially regarded as the same thing in the story.

I don't even know what you're attempting to say with the rest of that.

Cisco says it creates its own pulsar, Jessie asks why it does that, Harry says if the phase of that machine is disrupted, the multiverse will not be destroyed, there is no such thing as attempting, you are squeezing, there is no need for infinite power to pass right now, the simplest logic is that the power required to destroy the infinite multiverse should be infinite logically, the reason is that you cannot destroy infinite numbers with a certain amount of power, which again proves me right.

 

[ByAsura]

No he doesn't. Cisco says 'pulse'.

• CISCO: He's creating his own pulse.

The machine is a pulsar, whose function Zoom weaponizes to create a pulse.

• WELLS: It's a power amplifier with a highly magnetized, dense rotating core that can be easily weaponized.

The simplest logic is that Barry literally stopped this before it was going to get amplified. You know why it's the simplest logic? Because it's what happens. I cannot stress this shit enough. You're actually ignoring the plot and dialogue of the episode.

 

[InfNoyan]

No he doesn't. Cisco says 'pulse'.

• CISCO: He's creating his own pulse.

The machine is a pulsar, whose function Zoom weaponizes to create a pulse.

• WELLS: It's a power amplifier with a highly magnetized, dense rotating core that can be easily weaponized.

The simplest logic is that Barry literally stopped this before it was going to get amplified. You know why it's the simplest logic? Because it's what happens. I cannot stress this shit enough. You're actually ignoring the plot and dialogue of the episode.

I do not ignore that the energy of the infinite output phase is accumulated but produces infinite energy but destroys an infinite energy output machine with its output, this is a direct achievement, and also Zoom and Barry deserve the H3A layer on both sides despite producing infinite energy. This is because they can project kinetic energy to AP. Speed=Kinetic energy accumulation. Kinetic energy=AP
AP=speed. I can send you evidence of this, in any case, both sides can deserve the H3A layer.

 

[ByAsura]

You're just stonewalling what I say at this point, so I'm done with this conversation.

 

[Williams249]

Now first of all, as I explained to Bambu, the universes are connected to the world. As I saw in Crisis on Infinite Earth, when the worlds are destroyed, the universes also disappear and Magnetar wants to destroy the multiverse and Harry also uses the word "destroy" in the same way.

This doesn't address anything stated above. That'd simply be depiction. Anyway, just found something that my support the OP tho

 

[InfNoyan]

You're just stonewalling what I say at this point, so I'm done with this conversation.

What you say doesn't make sense, I didn't block anything.