Cui Heng VS Diablo

[CodeCCLL]

I hate dealing with these types of circular arguments.

How can this guy still time travel when the scans are literally talking about the disappearance of selves everywhere in the entire timeline? Time travel when the space-time continuum does not exist already implies the necessity of a secondary temporal axis, as I said at the very beginning of this discussion.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

I hate dealing with these types of circular arguments.

How can this guy still time travel when the scans are literally talking about the disappearance of selves everywhere in the entire timeline? Time travel when the space-time continuum does not exist already implies the necessity of a secondary temporal axis, as I said at the very beginning of this discussion.

It is bound to feel like circular arguments for you when you repeat the same arguments and ignore the same counterarguments that make your argument redundant.

What are you talking about? Do you mean this scan? It isn't him that is disappearing, it is the enemy that simultaneously attacked all points in time that had Cui Heng that is disappearing. Cui Heng reacted to the immeasurable attack that simultaneously attacked all his selves across time and he erased all traces of the guy and the power.

Also there is like 5+ scans of explicit time travel on his profile.

 

[CodeCCLL]

Please do not answer the points that should not be taken into consideration anymore, just see my answer and move on, just address my questions and this will be over.

What is the point of this match then, even against Dino?

In the same post you say Dino cannot bypass nonduality but then you say his range can affect all Cui Hengs which would include his 4D nondual selves...

I'm talking about affecting Cui Heng, who is on the battlefield in the first place.

I have already told you about his 4D hax layers.

To reiterate, Cui Heng's layers are based on cultivation level. If a key is 3D and has X layers then it is 3D layers, if it is 4D then it has 4D layers, it is that simple.

The hax layers thread should have told you it is based on affecting X cultivation level/realm and you could have simply checked the key's tier.

Is it based on affecting both the beings at the lower cultivation level and the realms themselves? If it is based on affecting the realms, is there any evidence that the entire space-time continuum of the realms is affected by this?

In the same post you say Dino cannot bypass nonduality but then you say his range can affect all Cui Hengs which would include his 4D nondual selves...

The reason I say this is because I don't think you think it has the capacity to affect all selves, because I thought you were talking about an immeasurable speed that is still traveling through the space-time continuum that already exists. Yes, it could potentially affect characters with the same collective consciousness traits as Cui Heng, but it might not be affected if some version of that character (Cui Heng) in their collective self is not affected by it.

A non-passive ability from Dino who doesn't resist Cui Heng's info hax layers which would tell him everything about Dino from a glance

You do realize that Dino was initially faced with Cui Heng, who couldn't even interact with him or hurt him, right? Therefore, even if Cui Heng intervenes from the future, Dino will make the original first hit.

A non-passive ability from Dino somehow affecting even 4D versions of Cui Heng who are nondual

As I said, Dino makes the original first strike, that is, the first strike before interfering with the past, because Cui's 6-A self is fodder in the firstly.

A non-passive ability from Dino cast before any Cui Heng present or from any time period doing anything despite speed equal. Even though any Cui Heng reactively becoming 4D or a Cui Heng already 4D can ignore it and literally negate it on all Cui Heng's affected with their layered powernull

Okay, if he really has more than 5 hax layers in 4D, and after Dino's first hit, he can somehow save his already destroyed self at every point in time, as I mentioned above, by time travel, which I think he probably does on a secondary temporal axis, and in 4D, he has more layers. He can win against Dino with his passives.

This might be the last time I say this but stop only thinking about across time regarding Cui Heng. Dino has countless Cui Hengs in front of him all fake selves with varying tiers that do no exceed his second last key.

After all, they all depend on the same collective consciousness.

You are trying to make an argument for an ability that will affect all Cui Heng's present and all Cui Hengs across time with the argument of "it has already happened" despite the fact that If Dino were to somehow cast it, the event happens for present Cui Heng but has yet to happen for Cui Heng in the past.

As I said, Dino's ability actually ignores the Multiple Selves ability, which is Acausality Type 3, Cui Heng's past selves can still be affected by it as long as they have the same collective consciousness and there are not enough resistances.

Also attacking all Cui Hengs across time is literally on his profile and he reactively became faster and 4D and negated the attack.

You have ignored Cui Heng isn't baseline immesurable. I have said this 1, 2, 3, 4 times on this page. A feat Dino doesn't even have on his profile.

If Cui Heng reacts with immeasurable speed to an attack that occurs literally at every point in time (essentially omnipresent), then this fundamental is not beyond immeasurable speed, he has the ability to move directly on a higher temporal axis, only in this way can such a feat be talked about.

What are you talking about? Do you mean this scan? It isn't him that is disappearing, it is the enemy that simultaneously attacked all points in time that had Cui Heng that is disappearing. Cui Heng reacted to the immeasurable attack that simultaneously attacked all his selves across time and he erased all traces of the guy anOne simple question, related to what else I've said, is this man time traveling and reacting to an event that happened at one point in time, or did he react to an event that happened at every point in time?d the power.

One simple question, related to what else I've said, is this man time traveling and reacting to an event that happened at one point in time, or did he react to an event that happened at every point in time?

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Please do not answer the points that should not be taken into consideration anymore, just see my answer and move on, just address my questions and this will be over.

Elaborate on these points.

I'm talking about affecting Cui Heng, who is on the battlefield in the first place.

You do realise that it isn't just High 6-A Cui Heng present, right? Every tier up to his Return to Void key fake selves are present. I have told you this so many times.

You have yet to actually address this because it seems you're only thinking of his future self as a threat.

Is it based on affecting both the beings at the lower cultivation level and the realms themselves? If it is based on affecting the realms, is there any evidence that the entire space-time continuum of the realms is affected by this?

Their layered hax is based on affecting both 3D and 4D beings. Affecting space-time continuums would be a range feat. You can't soul hax space-time itself, just the beings within it.

If you meant if any of them can affect space-time continuums with the appropriate hax minus the people within those space-time continuums, then law hax, concept hax, info hax and his literal presence brings the beginning and end to all at the same time.

The reason I say this is because I don't think you think it has the capacity to affect all selves, because I thought you were talking about an immeasurable speed that is still traveling through the space-time continuum that already exists. Yes, it could potentially affect characters with the same collective consciousness traits as Cui Heng, but it might not be affected if some version of that character (Cui Heng) in their collective self is not affected by it.

Then what is the point in this match when a single Cui Heng that isn't affected can simply negate it on any Cui Heng affected?

You do realize that Dino was initially faced with Cui Heng, who couldn't even interact with him or hurt him, right? Therefore, even if Cui Heng intervenes from the future, Dino will make the original first hit.

Dino would have to actually be able to cast it on the Cui Hengs present. Cui Heng not being able to interact with Dino doesn't matter if a single 4D Cui Heng is present and even his High 6-A and below that tier ones are the only ones present, they can literally see through Dino with a glance with his layered info analysis.

I think you are also underestimating and misunderstanding immeasurable speed. It isn't simply the ability to time travel but being faster than time itself. Cui Heng can literally stand there and let Dino erase him from existence and future Cui Heng wouldn't instantly die, since well, he already died in the past but is faster than time.

Funnily, Cui Heng being attacked in the past and dying has already happened to him and his future self reacted and used Taiji Diagram technique.

As I said, Dino makes the original first strike, that is, the first strike before interfering with the past, because Cui's 6-A self is fodder in the firstly.

Cui Heng has info analysis and reactive evolution faster than baseline immeasurable. Actually post proof he can deal with this "fodder" self by posting a feat from Dino remotely close to countering that.

As I said, Dino's ability actually ignores the Multiple Selves ability, which is Acausality Type 3, Cui Heng's past selves can still be affected by it as long as they have the same collective consciousness and there are not enough resistances.

See my point above the last.

If Cui Heng reacts with immeasurable speed to an attack that occurs literally at every point in time (essentially omnipresent), then this fundamental is not beyond immeasurable speed, he has the ability to move directly on a higher temporal axis, only in this way can such a feat be talked about.

It is a range feat. A 2-A range attack. Also I already posted an attack that was omnipresent attacking every single one of his selves and every single one of his selves reactively dealing with it.

You have yet to post anything of Dino that is remotely close to countering this (yes, I am repeating myself).

Also Cui Heng can travel to outside of space and time. No, not to a void relative to space-time but before time and space. His last key is that void before space and time.

One simple question, related to what else I've said, is this man time traveling and reacting to an event that happened at one point in time, or did he react to an event that happened at every point in time?

He isn't travelling.

Imagine Dino was the enemy and Dino was 2-B, possible 2-A (same tier as Cui Heng's return to Void key) and Dino ignored the Return to Void key Cui Heng in front of him and decided to attack all other Cui Hengs at the same time. That is what happened and one POV we got was a High 6-A Cui Heng reacting to the immeasurable speed attack.

In this scenario the Cui Heng in-front of Dino that is Return to Void key didn't do anything, he just let his other selves deal with the attack.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

So to summarize, Dino has a non-passive ability that puts people to sleep. It is a 2-A ranged attack that can affect the clones and true self of an individual.

The problems:

1. Dino is up against countless Cui Hengs both across time and the current SBA battlefield, all with varying tiers up-to 2B, possibly 2-A
2. Dino's attack does not affect Cui Heng's 4D selves that can negate it across all other selves affected and end the match in less than 0 time
3. Dino's supporters have yet to actually post proof of a feat to counter Cui Heng's feat on his profile of reactively becoming 2-B, possibly 2-A faster than baseline immeasurable speed
4. Dino's omnipresent 2-A attack is made redundant due to Cui Heng already having a feat of reacting to a faster feat
5. Dino somehow succeeding in doing anything to Cui Heng's past selves is made redundant as Cui Heng already has a feat on his profile of reacting to a past event that was his death faster than it could kill his future self
6. Dino's non-lethal ability is an ability to be casted but he himself doesn't resist Cui Heng's layered info analysis

 

[CodeCCLL]

You do realise that it isn't just High 6-A Cui Heng present, right? Every tier up to his Return to Void key fake selves are present. I have told you this so many times.

If there is not only 6-A Cui Heng on the battlefield, it is against SBA in the first place, so I told you at the beginning that you should use the variable rating in the profile. If there is a Cui Heng other than 6-A Cui Heng on the battlefield, Cui Heng should only be included in the "varies" level in such a list in the first place.

They are, in a single instant, transported to the battlefield from their everyday activities, equipped with their equipment, transformed to the character version they battle in and given the correct state of mind.

Then what is the point in this match when a single Cui Heng that isn't affected can simply negate it on any Cui Heng affected?

...

I think you are also underestimating and misunderstanding immeasurable speed. It isn't simply the ability to time travel but being faster than time itself. Cui Heng can literally stand there and let Dino erase him from existence and future Cui Heng wouldn't instantly die, since well, he already died in the past but is faster than time.

We are talking about an attack that can affect every point in the space-time continuum. I think you have never encountered such a case before.

When Cui Heng was hit by Dino, every selves that was a part of Cui Heng's collective consciousness would go to sleep, including his past selves and future selves, his entire collective consciousness would be affected by it. If there was a situation where his future self did not resist this sleep, even immeasurable speed wouldn't work, because even going faster than time doesn't prevent an event x from happening that has already happened across the entire space-time continuum, because event x has literally happened throughout all of time. Likewise, this is why a character with immeasurable speed can bypass a 3D passive aura, but cannot bypass a 4D passive aura that affects the entire space-time continuum, because this Aura covers the entire past, present and future, so it cannot be bypasse even with immeasurable speed.

Immeasurable (Movement unbound from the flow of linear time, which cannot be measured. Given that S = D/T, if T is undefined, the speed formula cannot be applied. This is the same reason why multiple temporal dimensions also grant immeasurable speed. For further information, see the "Further Explanations"-section below)

Our definition of immeasurable speed clearly refers to movement that occurs independently of linear time, not independent of the space-time continuum, and if a character with immeasurable speed can travel back in time where there is no space-time continuum, this means that the character with immeasurable speed in question is moving on a higher temporal axis, and this is Tier 1 Cosmology.

He isn't travelling.

Upgrade for Spiritual Lifeforms [TenSura]

Lets get straight to the point this time, and avoid derailing the thread with useless arguments or comments. With that done, lets begin Concept Type 1 Upgrade Currently, we have Spiritual Lifeforms as Type 2 Concepts based of this : Abstract Existence (Type 1 - Concept (Type 2) - Elemental...

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• DarkDragonMedeus (Up to Infinite and Immeasurable speed specifically)

I think it's time for a wiki-wide content revision regarding the relationship between immeasurable speed and time travel.

Imagine Dino was the enemy and Dino was 2-B, possible 2-A (same tier as Cui Heng's return to Void key)

In fact, the Dino I have discussed here so far is a Dino who has sealed his original Ultimate Skill (Ultimate Skill Astarte, Lord of Heaven) and his true power. His true form is at least 2-C. (However, his profile currently contains only 16 volumes of content, and his Dino's true form was revealed in the last published volume, the 21st. in short, Dino's true power and original Ultimate Skill is still also a mystery)

Dino is up against countless Cui Hengs both across time and the current SBA battlefield, all with varying tiers up-to 2B, possibly 2-A

So it should literally be in the "varies" section of the list so this discussion is pointless.

 

[CodeCCLL]

Note: Based on what you said, I might be able agree that Cui Heng's immeasurable speed allowed him to escape Dino's Fallen Catastrophe, what I'm trying to say here is that baseline or beyond baseline immeasurable speed cannot success Cui Heng's feat and Cui Heng very likely moves on higher temporal axis.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

If there is not only 6-A Cui Heng on the battlefield, it is against SBA in the first place, so I told you at the beginning that you should use the variable rating in the profile. If there is a Cui Heng other than 6-A Cui Heng on the battlefield, Cui Heng should only be included in the "varies" level in such a list in the first place.

SBA is regarding the character's tier and key. Varies rating would be his key having a tier that varies.

Powers, items, summons, etc outside of the character can be any tier. Cui Heng is High 6-A, that is his tier and the key being used in this match. Stop misunderstanding.

His clones/fake-selves are tiers below High 6-A and up-to 2-B, possible 2-A across space and time.

We are talking about an attack that can affect every point in the space-time continuum. I think you have never encountered such a case before.

When Cui Heng was hit by Dino, every selves that was a part of Cui Heng's collective consciousness would go to sleep, including his past selves and future selves, his entire collective consciousness would be affected by it. If there was a situation where his future self did not resist this sleep, even immeasurable speed wouldn't work, because even going faster than time doesn't prevent an event x from happening that has already happened across the entire space-time continuum, because event x has literally happened throughout all of time. Likewise, this is why a character with immeasurable speed can bypass a 3D passive aura, but cannot bypass a 4D passive aura that affects the entire space-time continuum, because this Aura covers the entire past, present and future, so it cannot be bypasse even with immeasurable speed.

We are talking about a 2-A range attack.

I have already posted an attack attacking all Cui Hengs simultaneously and Cui Heng reacting faster than the attack and countering it.

You have yet to post a feat of Dino of affecting beings with such a reaction speed but decided to make an argument for a 2-A attack affecting someone who has a feat already on their profile of countering this...

Stop dancing around this please.

Our definition of immeasurable speed clearly refers to movement that occurs independently of linear time, not independent of the space-time continuum, and if a character with immeasurable speed can travel back in time where there is no space-time continuum, this means that the character with immeasurable speed in question is moving on a higher temporal axis, and this is Tier 1 Cosmology.

Go create a CRT regarding immesurable speed going beyond linear time if you feel that way.

I was simply mentioning a feat of him travelling beyond endless time.

• DarkDragonMedeus (Up to Infinite and Immeasurable speed specifically)

I think it's time for a wiki-wide content revision regarding the relationship between immeasurable speed and time travel.

I feel like you misunderstood, he can travel through time using his speed, it is on his profile. I mentioned him not travelling through time because in that specific feat, like I already said, he let his other selves react.

In fact, the Dino I have discussed here so far is a Dino who has sealed his original Ultimate Skill (Ultimate Skill Astarte, Lord of Heaven) and his true power. His true form is at least 2-C. (However, his profile currently contains only 16 volumes of content, and his Dino's true form was revealed in the last published volume, the 21st. in short, Dino's true power and original Ultimate Skill is still also a mystery)

Okay.

So it should literally be in the "varies" section of the list so this discussion is pointless.

Again, his tier is High 6-A. He is that tier.

His clones/fake-selves vary in tier. This match as the OP says, is his High 6-A key.

His clones/fake-selves like I previously have stated over a dozen times not only vary in tier but also form. Some are animals, some are pebbles, some are mountains, some are skies, one is a protagonist in a story, one is his future self but acting as his fake self with a fake identity, etc. All of these characters vary in tier but the key being used in this match is his High 6-A key who has all of these beings.

Note: Based on what you said, I might be able agree that Cui Heng's immeasurable speed allowed him to escape Dino's Fallen Catastrophe, what I'm trying to say here is that baseline or beyond baseline immeasurable speed cannot success Cui Heng's feat and Cui Heng very likely moves on higher temporal axis.

There is no rule regarding a 2-A attack, basically omnipresent vs immeasurable speed. I personally would be on the side of the omnipresent attack considering regardless of how fast they are, the field they're running around in is a minefield.

However, Cui Heng has multiple feats of already being faster on his profile.

 

[CodeCCLL]

Stop misunderstanding.

There's nothing I'm misunderstanding, I just have a hard time accepting this kind of nonsense because the wiki doesn't have clear standards for the "key" distinctions that characters have, that's all.

You have yet to post a feat of Dino of affecting beings with such a reaction speed but decided to make an argument for a 2-A attack affecting someone who has a feat already on their profile of countering this...

This doesn't make any sense anymore...

If you want to know: Dino normally has no chance of hitting a Digital Lifeform with this attack, but it is said that once hit, no one can escape from it, and normally, even after being hit, the only characters that can dodge attacks with their immeasurable speed are Digital Lifeforms as if the attack had never hit them. Guy and Chloe are stated to be Digital Lifeforms in Vol 12 if I'm not mistaken, the phrase for Dino's Ultimate Skill is used in Vol 16, and the nature of Digital Lifeforms and Information Particles is explained in Vol 19. It can be said that even Guy and Chloe, who can escape from each other's attacks on their future, cannot escape after being shot once, but still, the speed of the information particles in the tensura is constant, so all Digital Lifeforms consisting of information particles are at the same speed, thus preventing a scaling chain from occurring.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

There's nothing I'm misunderstanding, I just have a hard time accepting this kind of nonsense because the wiki doesn't have clear standards for the "key" distinctions that characters have, that's all.

It does, keys are based tiers. You're attributing the tiers that vary based on his fake selves to him, who is High 6-A.

Try to visualize this, him, yes, Cui Heng, is High 6-A. He has a bunch of hivemind fakeselves linked to him present in his time, before his time and after his time.

The match starts and all his fakeselves present in his time are teleported with him, with some being less than High 6-A to some being 2-B, possible 2-A.

Even if somehow they weren't teleported as per the request of people in this thread... Cui Heng's immeasurable speed isn't just speed, it is also omnipresence. People at this level literally occupy the timeline in a form that suits them, as in, if someone peeked into the greater river of time that covers all universes, someone at his level would be like a torch illuminating the entire timeline.

This doesn't make any sense anymore...

If you want to know: Dino normally has no chance of hitting a Digital Lifeform with this attack, but it is said that once hit, no one can escape from it, and normally, even after being hit, the only characters that can dodge attacks with their immeasurable speed are Digital Lifeforms as if the attack had never hit them. Guy and Chloe are stated to be Digital Lifeforms in Vol 12 if I'm not mistaken, the phrase for Dino's Ultimate Skill is used in Vol 16, and the nature of Digital Lifeforms and Information Particles is explained in Vol 19. It can be said that even Guy and Chloe, who can escape from each other's attacks on their future, cannot escape after being shot once, but still, the speed of the information particles in the tensura is constant, so all Digital Lifeforms consisting of information particles are at the same speed, thus preventing a scaling chain from occurring.

So immeasurable speed can dodge, okay...I have also already posted that if it had actually hit, Cui Heng can still react to a reality that happened in his past. Me posting something already on his profile has been the majority of my posts so far.

What are you arguing for and what is the point of this if Dino can't affect all Cui Hengs as a single one can undo whatever Dino does? Even if Dino turned the ability to lethal, Cui Heng can't die unless his other selves do due to his immortality type 8.

 

[CodeCCLL]

What are you arguing for

I'm just trying to compile the closing remarks.

 

[CodeCCLL]

Or never mind, I mentioned everything there is to mentioned, Chineman is winning, that's all.

Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken characters in 6-A should be changed to Dino (Light Novel), Diablo (Light Novel) and Ruminas Valentine (Light Novel) and Cui Heng should be above them.

 

[Meli_Tempest]

Looking at the arguments, isn't this simply a stomp that cannot be added?

 

[CodeCCLL]

Looking at the arguments, isn't this simply a stomp that cannot be added?

This was for the list of strongest characters on the wiki.

 

[Super]

Why are you guys arguing with him this thread was Diablo vs Cui Heng both at 6-A and the first thing the guy says is yk " yeah this is his 6-A key but hes really 2-A" what was the point of creating the thread if your 6-A character was really 2-A and your saying he gain "any" ability and your rebuttal to NLF was "its not a no limits fallacy because its a feat" that like a Tensura supporter saying rimuru can gain any and every ability as well as however many layers of resistance he wants.

 

[Tempestdragon6]

Why are you guys arguing with him this thread was Diablo vs Cui Heng both at 6-A and the first thing the guy says is yk " yeah this is his 6-A key but hes really 2-A" what was the point of creating the thread if your 6-A character was really 2-A and your saying he gain "any" ability and your rebuttal to NLF was "its not a no limits fallacy because its a feat" that like a Tensura supporter saying rimuru can gain any and every ability as well as however many layers of resistance he wants.

yeah but we don't support those statements unless proven