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I don't Really get why we can use letters as evidence but not stories made by friends of his who he trusted with his verse
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Cthulhu mythos Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Gasper
- Start date
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"Gilman’s dreams consisted largely in plunges through limitless abysses of inexplicably coloured twilight and bafflingly disordered sound; abysses whose material and gravitational properties, and whose relation to his own entity, he could not even begin to explain. He did not walk or climb, fly or swim, crawl or wriggle; yet always experienced a mode of motion partly voluntary and partly involuntary. Of his own condition he could not well judge, for sight of his arms, legs, and torso seemed always cut off by some odd disarrangement of perspective; but he felt that his physical organisation and faculties were somehow marvellously transmuted and obliquely projected—though not without a certain grotesque relationship to his normal proportions and properties."
It does sound similar to what's described in Hypnos
" Of our studies it is impossible to speak, since they held so slight a connexion with anything of the world as living men conceive it. They were of that vaster and more appalling universe of dim entity and consciousness which lies deeper than matter, time, and space, and whose existence we suspect only in certain forms of sleep—those rare dreams beyond dreams which come never to common men, and but once or twice in the lifetime of imaginative men. The cosmos of our waking knowledge, born from such an universe as a bubble is born from the pipe of a jester, touches it only as such a bubble may touch its sardonic source when sucked back by the jester’s whim. Men of learning suspect it little, and ignore it mostly. Wise men have interpreted dreams, and the gods have laughed. One man with Oriental eyes has said that all time and space are relative, and men have laughed. But even that man with Oriental eyes has done no more than suspect. I had wished and tried to do more than suspect, and my friend had tried and partly succeeded. Then we both tried together, and with exotic drugs courted terrible and forbidden dreams in the tower studio chamber of the old manor-house in hoary Kent."
Especially since it specifies "the Cosmos of our waking knowledge", which could be interpreted as the 3D world of men. To be clear I don't think there are no dimensionless realms in Lovecraft (or that they are actually "0D" lmfao) but there is basis for the "dimensional Gates" thing
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We already use the Striking of the Gong for scaling, so i dont see why we can't use other works from the Circle for scaling purposes
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- Thread starter
- #44
We do though. But only Clark Ashton Smith and Robert E Howard.
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On the topic of undimensioned realms and authors other than Lovecraft, I found this quote from the novel Space-Eaters from Frank Long:
"Suppose there were a greater horror? Suppose evil things from some other universe should decide to invade this one? Suppose we couldn't see them? Suppose we couldn't feel them? Suppose they were of a color unknown on Earth, or rather, of an appearance that was without color? Suppose they had a shape unknown on Earth? Suppose they were four-dimensional, five-dimensional, six-dimensional? Suppose they were a hundred-dimensional? Suppose they had no dimensions at all and yet existed? What could we do? They would not exist for us? They would exist for us if they gave us pain. Suppose it was not the pain of heat or cold or any of the pains we know, but a new pain? Suppose they touched something besides our nerves—reached our brains in a new and terrible way? Suppose they made themselves felt in a new and strange and unspeakable way? What could we do? Our hands would be tied. You cannot oppose what you cannot see or feel. You cannot oppose the thousand-dimensional. Suppose they should eat their way to us through space!"
"Suppose there were a greater horror? Suppose evil things from some other universe should decide to invade this one? Suppose we couldn't see them? Suppose we couldn't feel them? Suppose they were of a color unknown on Earth, or rather, of an appearance that was without color? Suppose they had a shape unknown on Earth? Suppose they were four-dimensional, five-dimensional, six-dimensional? Suppose they were a hundred-dimensional? Suppose they had no dimensions at all and yet existed? What could we do? They would not exist for us? They would exist for us if they gave us pain. Suppose it was not the pain of heat or cold or any of the pains we know, but a new pain? Suppose they touched something besides our nerves—reached our brains in a new and terrible way? Suppose they made themselves felt in a new and strange and unspeakable way? What could we do? Our hands would be tied. You cannot oppose what you cannot see or feel. You cannot oppose the thousand-dimensional. Suppose they should eat their way to us through space!"
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This, coupled with the various descriptions of Azathoth's realm being "beyond dimensional" and "beyond angled space" makes it pretty clear that there's at least a 1-A cosmology here. The biggest issue is establishing a 1-A+ hierarchy, because it all depends on Hypnos, and I feel that alot of evidence towards the vacua being beyond dimensional aren't as clear cut as I'd hoped. This is why I tried to get a hold of some of Lovecraft's letters, to try and gain deeper insight into the novels. And that statement for TtGoftSK is pretty spicy I must say
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I don't even think azathoths realm is beyond the gates tbh (but that's a seperate topic)
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- Thread starter
- #49
Because writers like August Derleth have their own mythos entirely which conflicts and contradicts what Lovecraft originally wrote about.
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Derleth is the ONLY one I've read that has this inherent issue tho
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- #51
Lin carter has some weird stuff too i think
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Completely false example
He wasn't in lovecrafts circle at all so he doesn't count people like smith, Howard, etc are in his circle
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- #53
I know.
Either way i think anyone else can be used in the cycle. Two are already.
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Azathoth is "beyond angled space" and "dimensional space". So if you believe the Gates are only dimensional barriers than it would have to be beyond them.
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Outer Extension is already described as undimensoned and is still below "Multiplicity of Gates".
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- #58
In through the gates of the silver key there are multiple Gates potentially infinite. It depends on how one specific quote is interpreted. I am unfortunately too lazy to post it.
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Yeah but literally in the same paragraph it says "beyond the dimensions we know". And from the WoG I posted, it would seem like the area past the First Gate is a High 1-B location
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- #60
Beyond dimensions we know could be referring to something completely different than spatial dimensions.
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Other than that. For example I brought up the non dimensional entities from Space-Eaters. I was hoping to find shit from places other than TtGoftSK
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Yeah but that's stretching it. I don't think there have been non spatial hierarchical dimensions in Lovecraft. Plus the WoG thing. Also do you have discord?
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- #63
Well, there is a short story called "the Trap" co written by Lovecraft which talks about a "Mirror" and how you can access multiple dimensions through it. There is also a interesting statement about the mirror being "Pan-Dimentional" too.
Keep in mind that the Mirror only works in a single universe.
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- #64
For one, vacua aren't spatial. And there is "limitless" amount of them so yeah.
gigachad#6508
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Alright sent a friend request. I'm Ziggs Ziggy. We can talk more over there
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He was
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Do we have anything that could change the cosmology from the other authors?
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Yeah but we already use it I think, part of the justification for Low 1-A multiverse
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- #70
Is that the same thing though?
Isn't Turtle hierarchy from conan? While the universes in atoms are from kull
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I thought they were the same? If they're not it could be huge
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- #72
I'm not really sure. Do you know anyone who knows more about conan?
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Not in many ways that are meaningful
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Not really. I only know what FanofRPGs posted on his blog
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That's from Randolph Carter pov, isn't it?
On a slighty different topic, I'd like to know why he doesn't have a profile anymore
IdiosyncraticLawyer
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Joke Battles
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We don't use Kull for tiering.
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We should. Unironically.
Like how Henry Kuttner's Azathoth dreaming stuff is count as one.
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We don't use any stores where azathoth dreams anything.
