Creation and destruction Question

[Gohanblanco217]

Do we assume that Creation scales to your AP attacks unless shown otherwise or it need to be specifically stated that Creation scales to your raw power?

 

[deonment]

you need feats or statements that would show that your creation scale to ap, such as having a power source that you use for creation and destruction

 

[Dust_Collector]

It either needs to be explicitly stated that the creation scales to their raw power, or the creation needs to be done via the same energy source the character uses for their attacks. For example, a mage creating a dimension with their magic while also using their magic to attack would mean the creation feat scales to their AP unless there's statements that say otherwise.

 

[KLOL506]

What Dust_Collector said.

However, in most times, statements and having a universal power source should be enough for your Creation Feats to scale to your Physical AP given enough context. DontTalkDT, who is the main expert on this topic on this wiki, has also said the following here: https://vsbattles.com/profile-posts/comments/9539/

"You don't need a normal city level feat to prove that a city level creation feat scales (that would be completely pointless tbh). It's sufficient to proof that your creation spells don't use more of your power than your attack spells. Of course it's a different issue should it be a complete outlier, but that is outlier business as usual."

As in, you don't need another actual City level brute force destruction feat to prove that your City level Creation feat scales to your destructive AP, assuming the universal energy source and statements fit.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think this part of the Creation Feats page basically explains it.

• Even though there is concrete evidence for pocket reality creations to qualify as an Attack Potency feat; it should not be assumed to scale to physical statistics without some notable scaling reasons. Examples include on screen demonstrations, examples of destruction, or information that the same pool of energy used to create said dimension can translate to the same amount of energy being used for other abilities including but not limited to physical strikes.

 

[KLOL506]

I think this part of the Creation Feats page basically explains it.

• Even though there is concrete evidence for pocket reality creations to qualify as an Attack Potency feat; it should not be assumed to scale to physical statistics without some notable scaling reasons. Examples include on screen demonstrations, examples of destruction, or information that the same pool of energy used to create said dimension can translate to the same amount of energy being used for other abilities including but not limited to physical strikes.

Yes, but WeeklyBattles initially assumed that creation feats could not scale to AP even with universal energy sources/statements without also showing a destruction feat on the same level, which was later debunked by DontTalkDT who said here that you don't actually need a feat of brute force destruction on the same level as your creation feat for the latter to scale to AP, and that a universal energy source with characters using the same pool of energy to create/destroy, and/or consistent-enough statements saying "creation powers scale to his raw physical might" and so on should be enough evidence to prove that their creation powers don't consume more power than their attacks, unless the story itself says/shows otherwise or well, outliers exist (But then again outliers are a different topic).

Maybe the Creation page needs a note where it says: "It should be noted that with creation feats, assuming the feat was done with a universal energy source where one uses the same pool of energy to create or destroy and/or there are statements claiming their creation powers scale in full to their raw power, one doesn't necessarily have to also perform a brute-force destruction feat on the same level for the creation feat to scale to their Attack Potency, as a Universal energy source and/or statements proving their creation powers to be equal to their raw physical power should be sufficient-enough evidence to prove that their creation powers don't use the same amount of energy as their attacking strength unless the story itself says/shows otherwise." to avoid further confusion.

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

I mean I would say Toki Toki from Dragon Ball Xenoverse/Heroes is a good example of the whole "Universal energy source". He's the bird who controls and creates time on a multiversal scale, he has ki which scales to all stats in DB and he directly scales to its failed counterpart who can also somewhat control time and has the Ki to destroy all the universes, his eggs hold enough energy/ki to create a universe and Demigra when he absorbed Toki Toki and it's power to control and create time gained a massive amp to his own ki, which again amps all stats

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I mean, if the creation feat was done using their strongest attack by far, then I can see doubts about it scaling to their regular spells and the like. But if it's done casually or using a mid level spell, it should logically scale to the other mid level and above spells. And same with using power of a magical artifact for creations; I wouldn't say they scale as a default but if said artifact can amplify the user's physical stats then it also appears a different story. and they could as long as they hold said artifact.

 

[KLOL506]

I mean, if the creation feat was done using their strongest attack by far, then I can see doubts about it scaling to their regular spells and the like. But if it's done casually or using a mid level spell, it should logically scale to the other mid level and above spells. And same with using power of a magical artifact for creations; I wouldn't say they scale as a default but if said artifact can amplify the user's physical stats then it also appears a different story. and they could as long as they hold said artifact.

Obviously there would be doubts if the creation feat was their strongest attack, but in this case we're talking about situations where their creation feats are merely one of their most casual attacks.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, in that regard; Universal power sources are more than enough.

 

[KLOL506]

Yeah, in that regard; Universal power sources are more than enough.

Neat.