Crash Bandicoot Upgrade

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Currently Crash Bandicoot is rated at Room level. Though I'm suprised nobody ever bothered to bring up the best quantifiable feats the verse has in The Wrath of Cortex.


Crash Bandicoot The Wrath of Cortex Game Movie All Cutscenes 1-0

At 2:40, we see a volcanic eruption happen on Crash's island, as well as a thunderstorm rapidly covering the entire sky, and a large tidal wave.

At 3:35, Aku Aku meets with Uka Uka to discover what is going on, and he finds out that he has released The Elementals from their imprisonment. Relevant dialogue:

Aku Aku: "No, not The Elementals! Uka Uka, why did you release them? Don't you know what happened the last time they were free?"
Uka Uka: "So they were responsible for a few earthquakes, floods and that little ice age a couple of centuries back. You worry too much,brother."
At 4:50, Aku Aku retells what he's learned to the characters, and states:

"We must find a way to stop them before they destroy the Earth and all of its inhabitants"
So The Elementals are capable of wiping out all life on Earth through natural disasters like Earthquakes, floods, tsunamis, hurricanes and storms. And we know that they were the cause of an ice age.

Throughout the game, Crash fights against Crunch empowered by each of the Elementals, and defeats him every time. At the end of the game, Crash and Aku Aku fight against Crunch being empowered by the Four Elementals, plus Cortex and Uka Uka, and win. So it's unquestionable that this scales to them.

I do not know the energy required to cause an ice age, but I think that "High 7-C" would work as a lowball for the Crash characters.

 

[Antoniofer]

This was bring up before iirc, powers would only scale to the elementals and Crush in his "thunderstorm form" via Enviromental Destruction, but it should remain as it is in the other stats.

When I get my PC back, I should calculate and re-calculate the fears from the first games due N. Sane Trilogy.

 

[Dark649]

I agree with Antoniofer.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

This was bring up before iirc, powers would only scale to the elementals and Crush in his "thunderstorm form" via Enviromental Destruction, but it should remain as it is in the other stats.
When I get my PC back, I should calculate and re-calculate the fears from the first games due N. Sane Trilogy.

Not at all. All the Masks have magic / energy manipulation powers and both Aku and Uka outclass the Elementals individually, and they use their magic powers to increase Crunch's own power, and Crash still beats him physically. They are also notably not even physically present nor trying when they cause the natural disasters, and instead put more power into empowering Crunch to stop Crash.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Is this game canon to the series and Crash and the others were also empowered because Crash is normally comparable to Crush and seems strange that normally Crash can defeat a four empowered Crush?.

This game is the first game Crunch appeared and Crash beat him. This game is literally Crash Bandicoot 4, and Twinsanity starts almost immediately after this ended.

Also, when has Crunch been comparable to Crash? Crash beats him 5 times in his first appearance, and beats him again in Mind Over Mutant, and also beats him in the spin-off N-Tranced. Crunch doesn't appear in Twinsanity and gets removed from the plot in the beginning in Crash of the Titans, and has no feats of physical superiority over Crash.

You are probably only basing this opinion on his physical appearance.

 

[Antoniofer]

Yes, this game could be considered canon.

Other thing, most of time that Crash defeat Crush is with external help: Against the earth elemental is Aku Aku that cause the damage, summoning the rocks that fall over Crush. Against the fire elemental he use a machine that launch water, Crash is incapable to close him, otherwise is burned into ashes. And against the air elemental he use a plane to eventually defeat him.

Only times he defeat Crush by his own is against the water elemental, that is basically Crush with his mass turned into water plus some powers, and the final battle that is just Crush that summon the elementals with buttoms.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

That doesn't really matter much. All of the Four Elementals are comparable and Crash beat him every time, using equipment or not, even the water Elemental which he did alone.

And the fact that all 6 villains working together failed to defeated Crash and Aku Aku proves that they scale.

 

[Dark649]

It's because Crash has Aku Aku with him.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Is it really? In gameplay it's Crash that does the damage in all battles but the Earth Elemental.

 

[Dark649]

In gameplay Crash is a massive glass cannon as he gets defeated by everything he comes in contact.

 

[Antoniofer]

I could agree to give them that rating to the elemental and cloud Crush, but it shouldn't scale to Crash nor the non mask characters, not sure about the brothers.

Even as thundersstorm, Crush could be taken down eventually with a machine gun; with the fire power he gain the weakness to water, nothing aside gaining fire powers seems to have changed; and his base can be damaged by Crash Bazooka, that is no so much different than his physical strikes.

Based in other games, Uka Uka just was able to create a body made of ice, so physically he doesn't show any different rating than Room level, it could be Building level.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

In gameplay Crash is a massive glass cannon as he gets defeated by everything he comes in contact.

Yeah, and that's game-mechanics. Mario also dies in one hit and so does Sonic without rings.

@Antonio

Wind Crunch is literally the size of a small mountain and with lightning clouds in his body. Him being taken down by machine guns makes little sense, and would be a low-end even for the Room level we have him as now as Normal Crunch.

Crunch doesn't need to show much as Fire Crunch because the Fire Elemental put more effort into empowering him than he did when he caused a Volcanic Eruption, and he scales to the other Elementals.

Crash's Bazooka is not a real life Bazooka, so that doesn't debunk anything.

Aku Aku and Uka Uka are the two most powerful masks of the Verse, and they scale as well.

 

[VenomElite]

>Crash gets defeated by everything he comes in contact with

Uh...so does Mario. (One to three hits depending on power ups in most cases). And by Crash of the Titans, that mechanic is gone.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Also, The Evil Twins stomped Aku Aku and Uka Uka, and by their own word their tech can blow up the islands.

And they were only defeated by the combined efforts of Crash, Cortex, Nina + Aku Aku and Uka Uka.

They are the most powerful characters of the series.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

https://youtu.be/ecHICWqmdo8?t=964

In case you needed proof that Crash being one-shotted by anything is Game mechanics.

 

[Antoniofer]

Remember that Crush isn't defeated immediately, an is just damaged when he "flashes", otherwise he is intangible; take him down with a machine gun would be like, take down a tree with a pistol.

Physically, the brothers are not that powerful, there mystic powers could help them to counter the elementals powers, but by them own they are not that powerful. The biggest feat in shear power comes from Uka Uka, and he was not much more powerful than his weight in ice, since it has the same weakness.

Iirc, they threatered to destroy the island, they not one shot it, and even if they were able with some weapon, it didn't happen; the only that their weapon showed is attack with flames, machine gun, chainsaws and plasma canons, so theres no way to known what would be the stronger weapon.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Antonio

We do realize that we consider health bars are game mechanics, right? You can't destroy a wall by repeatedly laying human-level punches to it. Besides, you can't take down a sentient storm-cloud with bullets. The fight is PIS.

Why do you keep bringing up Aku and Uka not being physically powerful when everything they do is brough by their magic powers which outclasses the Elementals' own, and they fight by both bashing each other and by shooting energy beams? They are High 7-C at a minimum, even if their Striking Strength is low.

The Twins are Reality Warpers with also super advanced tech, and they explictely said that they were going to wipe out the islands from the map. And the super-robot that they use at the end is their most powerful tech so it scales.

You don't seem to realize that fictional sci-fi weapons can be incredibly powerful.

 

[Antoniofer]

Again, I'm not against giving the elementals and cloud Crush that rating via Enviromental Destruction, but scale it to the normal characters is kinda wrong. I may agree to give to Aku Aku and Uka Uka that rating, but just because they can nullify it, they can't do any of that damage by their own.

Taking down cloud Crush with machine gun is as PIS as taking down King Kong with machine guns,, in small amounts would do anything to them. Also, PIS imply that he has showed higher feats than that, and this is the only time that he showed, there's nothing to compare. If want to known in what other moments characters were threatened in this way, Pinstripe is one, the battle against the Twins, and several in-games moment. And nop, I'm not to downgrade them for that.

Don't remember much about the power of the Twins, but if they have reality warper abilities bigger than the mask brothers, then make a note about it or even a key. I'm not going to assume that they can destroy, vaporize or even atomize an island when they didn't showed anything, if they had a weapon that can do that they never used it, even less against their enemies.

The higher feat that were showed that isn't in-game were when Crash survived the explosion of several tnt crates, but since characters has been damaged by far less across all the games (Titans aside), both in game and in boss fight, was considered an outlier and/or gag.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It's not Environmental Destruction, their Energy Attacks pack more power, and so does Crunch when empowered by them.

You are completely forgetting Area of Effect. You're acting as if it doesn't exist. The magical power of the Elementals allow them to do shit like create an Ice Age, and they empower Crunch with their power and Crash defeats the Water Crunch single-handedly. Aku and Uka are stronger than individual elementals.

And Cloud Crunch is a literal giant cloud producing thunder-strikes. It's absolute PIS for bullets that should go through him to damage him.

The entire plot of Twinsanity is that they have to stop the Twins or else they'll destroy the islands in revenge for Cortex. Saying that they can't do it is frankly dishonest.

No, the deaths of Crash should be considered gags and game mechanics. Crash is explictly far tougher than what you are saying, he's not at all a glass cannon.

To sum up, High 7-C but with low-range for most characters. Simple.

 

[Dark649]

Yes. Crunch was empowered, but it is not implied that the elemental empowered him to High 7-C.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm siding with Matt here. Sorry Dark. Nowhere near a glass cannon.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It doesn't need to be implied, it's self-evident. There's 0 reason to assume that characters that can do a High 7-C feat while not even present in the place, and can create an ice age would put less power in empowering Crunch. And the power-gap between Crash and the masks really isn't all that big since Crash defeats Uka Uka twice in the series.

 

[Antoniofer]

AoE should just be used if stated, like "it hit like a train" (Ant) or "punches have the power of galaxies" (Superman) and not cause that destruction, or in other cases that wouldn't explain cuz would be too large the text; in other cases is just a fallacy, used to justify stats that aren't showed or stated, turning minor feats into PIS or inconsistences. Basically, if you find a feat like creating a thunderstorm, and character hasn't showed to damage or get hurt by something quantificable, people will use AoE spech to give it the same rating of the storm to the other stats. If you are going to play the AoE, at least bring a good reason, like ki control in DB.

So is King Kong, besides, Crush is intangible in cloud form, he can only be damaged when he flashes. Again, I'm not to downgrade him nor anyone based in this, this just prove that the town level raking is wrong in his durability.

I just said that they no showed to one shot the island, if they had a weapon that can do that then fine, but considering that any of their weapons can do nor remotaly close to that, and even assuming that characters tanked their attacks, any of them should get the rating of a weapon that never were used.

Several of the deaths in Crash were considered gags or game mechanic, between then: pit fall, killed by animals like skunks, turtles, moles, rats, lizards, etc, and other are just unquantificable. The ones that happen the most like tnt and nitro crates, electricity, lasers, between others are more consitent when what he shows, the ones that are used against the bosses are also used, most of them fluctuates between wall+ and room level, being the Ripper Roo fight the higher one, with low end large building at most (only in the original Crash).

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Have you missed any of my arguments? The Elementals put more effort in empowering Crunch then they do with the natural disasters, this means that they pour more magical power into him making it scale.

There's no debate here.

No, it's not King Kong. And it's impossible to kill a Mountain-sized storm cloud by shooting at it with machine guns. You don't seem to realize that, at all.

Once again you say that their super-robot is weaker based on nothing but AoE, despite it being their strongest weapon. If they had better tech they would have used it, and they clearly defeated both masks casually before but now they had a bigger challenge. And I'm not upgrading Crash to Island level, I'm just showing you there are more better feats.

The deaths are gags and Crash being one-shot is a game-mechanic meant to give challenge. There's no debate there either. Meanwhile him survivng a large explosion of dozens of TNT boxes in the story proving that him dying to a single one is a gag is declared an "outlier" by you, even though canonically Crash never dies to a single TNT box.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

I don't think Crash should be High 7-C in Durability. I mean yes it's technically game mechanics, but then would you scale all the fodder beings that can kill crash to be that strong too? Not to mention the mini-bosses (I don't think pinstripe has High 7-C ammo). Crash also dies to electricity, falls, boulders, sea mines and other things that would make him seem more of a Wall level character.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I don't think Crash should be High 7-C in Durability. I mean yes it's technically game mechanics, but then would you scale all the fodder beings that can kill crash to be that strong too? Not to mention the mini-bosses (I don't think pinstripe has High 7-C ammo). Crash also dies to electricity, falls, boulders, sea mines and other things that would make him seem more of a Wall level character.

No, you simply don't scale all the bosses to Crash. Simple. Only a few like Cortex with his bots or the Trance who is meant to be more powerful. The others are just minions that Crash defeats mid-story with no effort.

And Kru, Crash's feat in Twinsanity debunks his deaths being legit.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Ant. Tbh, ki control is headcanon anyway, as it's never officially stated and applied to even characters who don't give a s*** about destruction or control, like Goku Black or Cell. So even that isn't a good reason. AoE fallacy exists for a reason.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Cal

Ki Control is actually stated, but I wholly agree with your point.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Kru. Take Link as an example. Only characters that scale to him are EoG characters. Not most bosses or minibosses, and he can also be seriously harmed by falls. Yet he's (large) island level, moon level, or large star level.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

And speaking of Cortex, he really is much weaker than Crash. I am only comfortable scaling him to Crash with the Mecha Bandicoot from Twinsanity, which is actually stronger than Crash.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Cal

Ki Control is actually stated, but I wholly agree with your point.

Hehe. My bad lol. But yeah, as you said, my point still stands.

 

[Ryukama]

I mean yes it's technically game mechanics, but then would you scale all the fodder beings that can kill crash to be that strong too?
Guess we now have to scale Goombas and Badniks to Tier 4 cause they hurt Mario and Sonic.

Not to mention the mini-bosses (I don't think pinstripe has High 7-C ammo)
Read above.

Crash also dies to electricity, falls, boulders, sea mines and other things that would make him seem more of a Wall level character.
Again, Mario and Sonic die to lava, spikes, electric shocks, fireballs, falling from cliffs, bullets, etc. Perhaps they're just Wall level too then. And we have to ignore all their feats outside of gameplay that are far higher.

I'm sorry, but with all due respect these are very bad arguments. And sound a lot worse when you replace Crash with the names of other video game characters.

 

[Kaltias]

I agree with Matt and Cal.

Also seriously, why storm feats are the most contested feats ever? I saw characters upgraded on statements alone with the upgrade going trough easier

 

[Sera_EX]

I don't decide anything until after I've evaluated everything and given an in-depth analysis on it. I'm still organizng Sonic revisions which are far more important right now (much more profiles).

Krukov makes sense but Matt has a point that if Crash is so weak he would've been dealt with a long time ago. Those are just game mechanics. A box of TNT kills Crash in Cortex's Revenge but does simple damage in Crash Bash (yes I know it's a spin off. I'm replaying the original trilogy via the N. Sane Trilogy but again, I'm replaying Sonic games and rereading the comics on top of working on a very big project for my husband so I'd rather not drown myself in too much feat searching and analyzing.

Let's settle down, take our time reviewing the series and go from there. I can't accurately gauge Crash's strength but he's likely beyond Wall Level.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Crash Bash is actually canon. The temple Aku Aku and Uka Uka meet actually returns in Wrath of Cortex, and "The Ancients" are mentioned in both games.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Guess we now have to scale Goombas and Badniks to Tier 4 cause they hurt Mario and Sonic.

Not to mention the mini-bosses (I don't think pinstripe has High 7-C ammo)
Read above.

Crash also dies to electricity, falls, boulders, sea mines and other things that would make him seem more of a Wall level character.
Again, Mario and Sonic die to lava, spikes, electric shocks, fireballs, falling from cliffs, bullets, etc. Perhaps their just Wall level then. And we have to ignore all their feats outside of gameplay that are far higher.
I'm sorry, but with all due respect these are very bad arguments. And sound a lot worse when you replace Crash with the names of other video game characters.

Thanks for making fun of me, lol

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I agree with Matt and Cal.
Also seriously, why storm feats are the most contested feats ever? I saw characters upgraded on statements alone go trough easier

Because they are both really common in fiction and powerful enough that they can upgrade plenty of characters, which some people don't like.

There's also the argument that it's "Environmental Destruction" but in this case the characters are magic users who put a lot more effort in things like Energy Beams and Empowering Crunch than controlling the weather. So it doesn't apply here.

 

[Sera_EX]

Yuel loves these games more than I do and according to her Crash is akin to a Looney Tunes character. His deaths in-game are meant to be silly and quirky, not to be taken literally and of course to enhance a gameplay experience.

 

[Ryukama]

Thanks for making fun of me, lol

I'm not trying to make fun of you in the slightest. I'm just respecfully disagreeing and using examples to support why I do.

 

[SomebodyData]

"I do not know the energy required to cause an ice age, but I think that "High 7-C" would work as a lowball for the Crash characters."

I think it is calculable, assuming that the atmosphere dropped to about ~0 degrees celsius, and using the temperature change formula. Although I don't know if the result would be a lowball or a massive highball.