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Could someone please explain to me...

ZacharyGrossman273

ZacharyGrossman273

24,183
3,938
How the 12D chaos thing makes sense? A line intersecting a square does not make a cube. Dimensions are not 1+1=2. The chaos gods should be 8D
 
No it isn't. If they have a characters who have 12D power then they have 12D power. Adding a dimension would add to the dimensional scale. Also link the files you are talking about...
 
.....If there are character who are stated to have 12-dimensional power then they are 12 dimensional. And your example does not make sense as the two things are different...

" A line intersecting a square Doesent form a cube."

What does this even mean? Adding a line is not adding a dimension. It is still 2 dimensional... Adding a dimension means say we have 11 dimensions. Suddenly there is a dimension above the 11th dimension. That is 12 dimensional...
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
.....If there are character who are stated to have 12-dimensional power then they are 12 dimensional.
Click to expand...
Where does it say that? The quotes I found were for them being 8D or generously 9D
 
I thinki what he means is that since the Warp is 8-9 Dimensional, if it overlaps our space - which is 4 Dimensional - it becomes 12 Dimensional.
 
Sir Ovens said:
I thinki what he means is that since the Warp is 8-9 Dimensional, if it overlaps our space - which is 4 Dimensional - it becomes 12 Dimensional.
Click to expand...
1D space intersecting 2D space is an infinitely long line and an infinitely large square intersecting, which would not form a cube. Also, even if this was the case, it would be limited to places the two overlap.
 
...

You do realise that if the Emperor fails, all of realspace - the whole universe - will be flooded by the Chaos Gods?
 
1) yes but again that would only apply in warp real space overlap 2) A 4D reality plus an 8D reality Doesent make a 12D reality dimensions don't work like that.
 
This is repeatedly why I've said Low 1-B is a huge lowball.

The Chaos Gods can make 8-D space + 4-D space = 12-D space because they transcend all laws of physics and logic in our world.

Tzeentch can make a 9-D maze containing an object that is infinite in dimensions.

Chaos has never cared about logic or laws of space-time. This is made clear with every single instance the Warp is discussed.

The Warp is stated to fully transcend things such as physical space, time, causality, logic, reason, distance, size, etc.

The Warp is supposed to transcend this.

"'The central conceit is that our visible, four-dimensional universe is restricted to a brane, that is, a membrane, inside a higher dimensional space,' he begins, and already I feel any hope of comprehension fall away. 'A theoretically infinite number of dimensions of potentially infinite scale occupy other branes, which, in effect, means there can be an endless series of alternate realities, intersecting with our own in ways we cannot possibly imagine in any currently posited cosmological model.'"

The only reason they're even rated this low is to be on the safe side.

To quote the source material:

"It is a dimension parallel to our own, a universe devoid of consistency and unbound by the laws of time and space, a random, unstructured panorama of pure energy and unfocused consciousness. It is Chaos in its truest sense, unfettered by the limits of physics and undirected by intelligent purpose."

"Here in the Great Ocean, he could be whatever he wanted to be; nothing was forbidden and anything was possible. Worlds flashed past him as he hurtled through the swelling tides of colour, light and dimensions without name. The roiling chaos of the aether was a playground for titanic forces, where entire universes could be created and destroyed with a random thought. How many trillions of potential lives were birthed and snuffed out just by thinking such things?"

"It is a churning ocean of chaos, raw emotion and madness given form, where the laws of physics, time and nature are meaningless concepts and nothing is as it seems."

"In warp space there is no time, no distances, only a constantly flowing stream of immaterium."

"It is a roiling, howling maelstorm of force and energy, utterly unpredictable and not subject to the rational laws and linear flow of time in the way that physical reality is."
 
@Ever

I know. I'm saying Chaos doesn't care, because it has never cared about conventional physics or logic, which is why Low 1-B is a huge lowball in the first place.

It's kind of like rating everyone above Yakou Madara as 25-D, but whatever.
 
@Azzy

That's due to the warp having non euclidean geometry. Just because of non euclidean geometry does not make them 12D. Please provide actual evidence of them being 12D.
 
LoyalservantofInti said:
@Azzy
That's due to the warp having non euclidean geometry. Just because of non euclidean geometry does not make them 12D. Please provide actual evidence of them being 12D.
Click to expand...
Where is the Warp ever stated to have non-Euclidean geometry as opposed to just no forms of distance or geometry, in general?

There is literally a quote about being 12-D.

And one about being 8-D.

And one about being 9-D.

And one about being potentially Infinity-D.

Because, again, Warp Space does not abide by any of the same laws normal space does. At all. It's supposed to be completely unstructured, unfettered, roiling currents of raw consciousness and chaos without any permanent form or law.

Trying to apply physical dimensions to the Warp doesn't work, because it does not abide by those laws. The current Low 1-B rating is used as essentially "eh, good enough?", but is not entirely accurate, as I have said before.

Conventional logic can easily measure how the Warp affects things outside of itself and on what scale it can do so. The same does not work when applied to the Warp itself.
 
Because, again, Warp Space does not abide by any of the same laws normal space does. At all. It's supposed to be completely unstructured, unfettered, roiling currents of raw consciousness and chaos without any permanent form or law.

Trying to apply physical dimensions to the Warp doesn't work, because it does not abide by those laws. The current Low 1-B rating is used as essentially "eh, good enough?", but is not entirely accurate, as I have said before.

Conventional logic can easily measure how the Warp affects things outside of itself and on what scale it can do so. The same does not work when applied to the Warp itself.

Yes, the warp has no true geometry or physics, but the only way to claim it's beyond dimensional is using the "no physical dimensions" quote which clearly refers to no true size of objects
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
LoyalservantofInti said:
@Azzy
That's due to the warp having non euclidean geometry. Just because of non euclidean geometry does not make them 12D. Please provide actual evidence of them being 12D.
Click to expand...
Where is the Warp ever stated to have non-Euclidean geometry as opposed to just no forms of distance or geometry, in general?
There is literally a quote about being 12-D.
Click to expand...
Can I please have it?
 
I didn't say it was beyond dimensions.

I said it was beyond all forms of logic and geometry we normally use, which makes accurately tiering its inhabitants an absolutely massive pain. Things there simply are and are not due to the will of the gods, without any consistent logic behind it. There's a reason it's often related to things such as dreams and imagination, where conscious thought is definitely on the losing side of the battle.

All relevant quotes are here under the appropriately titled section, if you need them.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
I didn't say it was beyond dimensions.
I said it was beyond all forms of logic and geometry we normally use, which makes accurately tiering its inhabitants an absolutely massive pain. Things there simply are and are not due to the will of the gods, without any consistent logic behind it. There's a reason it's often related to things such as dreams and imagination, where conscious thought is definitely on the losing side of the battle.
Click to expand...
Yes. Now pleae give the 12D quote.
 
You mean like the Eye of Terror?

The influence of the Gods is less in the Eye than it is in the Warp.

Hence why I said it's insanely difficult to properly tier them.
 
Influence outside the warp | Within the warp | Within warp-realspace overlap

Also their influence outside the warp is on a galactic scale but only 4-A in strength, so that should be downgraded.
 
@Azathoth Was the issue with the Chaos Gods ever resolved?
 
@Ant

Not really. Pooling ideas, all we ever really managed to come up with was "not entirely sure". I'm looking through older quotes to see what the best solution is.
 
Okay. DarkLK and A6colute might be able to help.
 
Dark and I briefly discussed ideas, and he as well said "I'm not really sure" about where exactly they should be placed, which is why I'm still mining old books for quotes.
 
Maybe "At least Low 1-B. Possibly 1-A"?
 
LoyalservantofInti said:
Within the warp in areas warp and real space don't overlap they are eight dimensional
Click to expand...
Again, Chaos Gods in the Warp (because they are the Warp) >>>>> Chaos Gods' influence in the Eye of Terror. Hence why they're so difficult to tier. One of their major character traits is that they defy logic and mathematics.
 
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