Conquest v.s Tehom

[Ultima_Reality]

Both were nominated as candidates for the strongest 2-A in this thread so.... yeah

Rules

• Conquest's High 1-B Immortality can be disabled if necessary

• Win by Death or Incapacitation

• Rules can be changed at any time to make the match as fair as possible

Conquest:

Tehom:

Inconclusive:

Bah:

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Ooooh. Will comment when I have more time later.

Btw, what's the Bah for?

 

[Ultima_Reality]

The bah is for....

bah

 

[Xmark12]

Following for later comment.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Ok, let's run down Tehom's powers and abilities:

Immortality - Don't know what he's reliant on, but a hilariously weaker version of Conquest can sever links and connections so whatever he's reliant on gets disconnected

Conceptual Manipulation - Conquest's origin predates Casem, who embodies all concepts, even the concept of concepts

Reality Warping, Void Manipulation, Existence Erasure, Time Manipulation, Spacial Manipulation - Pretty standard stuff for Conquest. Also ineffective as he can erase everything within Regular Space, and then erase the void that comes after it

Acausuality - Won't help when you're erased as well as all of space and time

Transduality - Don't know what this does, you're gonna have to help me out on this one

Regenerationn - Again, a hilariously weaker version of Conquest can cancel out regen. This is ignoring the fact that Conquest can't just smite Tehom

Non-Copreal - Not a problem when you can destroy everything within Regular Space, even non-copreal entities

Immunity to Void Manipulation - Won't help much if you're erased beyond even the void

Though, the last point has me thinking if Tehom will still survive after everything and the void after everything is erased. If he indeed does survive, Conquest has no true way of putting him down.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Okay so...

Tehom is the most primal void which predates and transcends even the literal embodiments / sources of Duality as an idea (Duality in this case, includes Existence and Nonexistence), and said embodiments have full control over all aspects of existence and nonexistence, and have someone that emanates and stabilizes all concepts and laws across existence via existing as a small part of themselves, yet they can't affect Tehom in any possible way, and his mere fragments can devour them, erasing all concepts, laws, existence, nonexistence and... pretty much everything (Although they would indeed regenerate, they wouldn't if it were "complete" Tehom)

To sum it up: Tehom is basically what is left when you erase existence and nonexistence as concepts, and it is devoid and "free" of anything even remotely resembling a "Concept" or an "Idea"

Also Transduality

Basically: Tehom can't be erased, because he is already something that is left when you erase Nonexistence itself

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Ah, then Conquest isn't putting him down. Question Is, can Tehom put Conquest down?

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Uh... I dunno, given his High 1-B Immortality

if it can be disabled then...

i still have no idea

 

[Sir_Ovens]

If you take away his immortality, he should still have at least Mid-Godly regen as any cosmic entity worth their salt in the Ovenverse has it.

However, most of Tehom's hax doesn't look like it will affect Conquest either way, as it negates almost every hax in the book. The only way to truly beat it is to be hierarchically higher than it.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Bumpo

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Actually, would mind haxing Tehom into submission work?

 

[Ultima_Reality]

I mean, the thing doesn't even have a "mind".... it... doesn't have anything

 

[Sir_Ovens]

O.O

This is starting to look inconclusive.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

I'm just wondering how an actual fight between this two would be...

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Conquest negs everything while Tehom just sits there looking pretty bored.

 

[Xmark12]

inb4 Core stomps in their 2-A form (Do you think that should be counted though? Technically it isn't its true self, but at the same time it's still there on its profile...).

Looking over both their profiles, and the arguments presented above, I'm leaning more towards inconclusive as well.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Unless the Core can exist outside the transduality of existence and non-existence, he gets smited.

'Also, the killing High-Godly thing comes from the fact that Conquest has the potential to use all the powers and abilities of Omatufobalu, which includes smiting lesser beings regardless of regen, status, or trancendence. It's kinda like when the Emperor killed Horus in Warhammer and the Chaos Gods couldn't bring him back.'

Once Conquest destroys something, they stay dead. Unless of course, they can bypass a High 1-B God of Chaos that makes other High 1-Bs tremble in it's presence.

 

[Xmark12]

The Core's Avatar cannot do that I believe, I concede on that (unless I forgot my own character). However, can Conquest survive getting smited himself? Because I quote: "Since it does not have a "true form", the Core is able to take on the form of others, and use copied versions their abilities, weapons, and even mentalities and knowledge, just by knowing they exist. Because this is the Core's ultimate ability- the one blessed by the embodiments- it can use the original user's abilities without any of the drawbacks."

Edit: The Core's Avatar has Omnilock.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Conquest's smite works on anything hierarchially higher than it. Using it's own attack against it won't kill it as it is hierarchially on the same level.

 

[Xmark12]

Can you explain how smite works exactly?

Also, wouldn't the hierarchy concept be a drawback? In which case, Core completely erases that drawback when it gains all of Conquest's powers.

If not, its Avatar still has adaptation/evolution, high-godly regen, all of the usual hax (reality warping, probability manip, causality manip, concept manip, etc), Willpower Defense (essentially hax resistance, more on the profile for details), abstract existence, omnilock, and paradox manipulation. Those are essentially the main abilities listed on the profile here.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Smite works as a form of complete and total erasure beyond even non-existence. All Eternals are capable of smite, as they originate from the first Eternal long since the dawn of Creation. As such, anything related to an Eternal is capable of smite, such as Zentu, the Horsemen, Nexus, Lunaris, etc.

When smite is applied onto a being, either 1 of 3 things happens depending on their hierarchial status. If the opponent is of lower status to the user, they will be erased. If the opponent is of the same level as the user, they get damaged but not entirely erased. If the opponent is of higher status than the user, it is completely and utterly ineffective.

The Hierarchy goes: Primal Beast >>>>> Grand Eternal >>> Old Eternal > Lesser Eternal > Titan >>> Second Generation Titan and so on.

Conquest, being the Origin Point (3-D manifestation of an Eternal) of Omatufobalu, cannot be denied of his smite unless you are hierarchlly higher than a Grand Eternal. Now this may look NLF, but smite only works on opponents in your tier range or lower. So if 2 Origin Points of the same tier try to smite each other, the higher authority wins regardless of how much more powerful the other is.

To say that the Core can smite Conquest because it has no drawbacks is like saying it can perform a 1-A level smite as the Primal Beasts are at the highest level of the hierarchy.

 

[Xmark12]

Hm, that actually makes sense, thanks.

Yeah, that would probs be NLF if Avatar can smite from a 1-A level. What's the tier of Grand Eternals though, since Avatar may still be able to pull a 1-B smite, since it's still a part of the True Core.

Of course, if we don't count all of that and Avatar will just get a 2-A smite like Conquest does, it'll still have all of Conquest's abilities + its own, which are listed above.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Omatufobalu is High 1-B, so I doubt the Core is getting a better smite than Conquest anytime soon. As for the other abilities, Conquest has resistance to most of them. Besides the casual 2-A stuff like reality warping and space-time manipulation, Conquest can resist power nullifcation and even overpower it with his own power null. He also resisted the Spear of Zentu which literally gives you a weakness and does that exact damage.

If anything, the Core's smite wouldn't work on Conquest, but it will work vice versa as Omatufobalu's authority overrides authority of the Core's true form.

 

[Xmark12]

Conquest's power null likely won't do anything to Avatar any time soon, as it's able to resist 95% of it at its best (it's on its profile via Willpower Defense). For its own power null, keep in mind this version of it is unfathomably more powerful than the one Linx uses, which gathers any ability the enemy has and essentially erases it on a conceptual level, basically rewriting it so that the opponent "never learned that ability", and making them unable to ever learn it again.

For resitances, Avatar has resistance to Conquests powers + what Conquest can resist, the exception being smite.

Speaking of smite, I'll concede on that, since it likely won't work. It would all depend on whether Abstract Existence, Omnilock, or any other ability such as probability manip. or paradox manip. can change that.

An added point I would like to make is Avatar's, and by extension Core's Absolute Precog/Clairvorance, which allows it to see all possible possibilities during the battle, and even the "correct path" towards victory, no matter how slim.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Although it's true Conquest's power null is nowhere near the Core's given what you stated, the point that Conquest resists whatever the Core throws at it still stands. The Horsemen were erased beyond a conceptual level by Casem's 3-D form and Conquest still came back. Mind you, Casem himself is beyond 3-D concepts as he is the Eternal of Concepts.

Conquest's regen is insane and the above feat is without his immortality because Casem made very sure the concept of an Eternal's influence was erased throughout Regular Space. The Valkyries and Sirens disappeared. The Titans disappeared. Even the Shards disappeared. But Conquest still came back, and Casem was forced to return the concept and go into hiding.

So Conquest does get power nulled, but it won't stay erased for long, and when it comes back, it will do the one thing left in it's arsenal:

Smite.

 

[Xmark12]

Avatar could very well likely power null its regen as well, as the Core nulled Zaunig's regen, which is on the level of what you presented above (High-Godly. Keep in mind Avatar also has that level of regen). Since Avatar is essentially just Core limited to infinite 4th dimensional power, it can power null on that level as well.

That may not be the case if there's proof that won't work, but keeping that in mind, how fast can Conquest come back? As for what Conquest can't resist, I checked both his and Zentu's and he likely can't resist these following abilities from Avatar: energy manip, soul manip, possibly reality warping (Core's is unfathomably more powerful than regular reality warpers in the verse, even those similar to his power, ex Zaunig. How strong is Zetsu's?), power null, sealing, and paradox manip.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Conquest came back just as soon as it was erased. Casem would have tried again but he didn't want to anger it. As for the other things, it's true Conquest doesn't have resistance to those However, if the Core doesn't kill it (which given the above context is next to impossible in 3-D space), Conquest will keep coming back and will either eventually adapt to those abilities, or smite and call it a day.

 

[Xmark12]

Conquest coming back is because of its Regenerationn, right? It's likely Avatar can power null the regen, like I said above.

Regarding if the Avatar can kill Conquest or not, Avatar is a 4-D being and can move up to 4-D space. If by reason that wouldn't work, then I'll concede that Avatar wouldn't be able to kill it, but that's still a possibility.

If Avatar can't kill it in those situations (power null everything including regen, going into 4-D space, and just conceding it wouldn't work), then either A: It can seal it into Gyrohem's center, which houses curses that are able to kill type 8 immortal nigh infinite-dimensional Deities (take that for what you will), or B: Trap it in a paradox loop of some sorts.

 

[Xmark12]

Bump

 

[Xmark12]

Bumping threads related to the Strongest on the Wikia thread.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

I mean

According to The Core's profile, even its Avatar has 1-B duralibility

so... doesn't that make this match kinda unfair?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Oh snap. Did not see that dura. Yeah, Conquest is not getting past that higher dimensional dura any time soon.

 

[Xmark12]

Hmm, guess Core will be put at strongest 2-A on the other thread.

This match still isn't concluded though, what's the vote so far?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Guess Conquest will just have to be second best.

Edit: I believe Conquest was winning before the Core stepped in.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

@Xmark

Well before The Core appeared in the air, the fight was pretty much:

"Conquest used Smite!..... It isn't very effective"

"Tehom devours him conceptually!... It isn't very effective..."

"...okay so... Conquest punches it in the face"

"........"

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Oh yeah.

Conquest and Tehom take second place as strongest 2-As.