Conflictual Requierment for Abstract Existence

[The_Causality]

Well, i don't want to spend a lot of time into this since i don't care as a whole those kind of stuff so i'll be bref:

There in this thread some discussion about where all this stuff started, according to the discussion, it seem that there is some conflictual requierement for being a Type 1 abstract.

An immediat exemple of the situation, some people claim that the CT need to be Type 1 due to them embodying Time and Space and thanks to some scan such as this one which explain that Giratina lack of Concept of Time Space (since he is the Dialga/Palkia Alter) and this one who show a non physical Palkia/Dialga.

The opposite side claim that this isn't how to have type 1 AE since they don't show any of the requirement as they don't behave like the Abstract existence page said

You dont understand. We dont care if they are or are not abstractions, that is not what matters to have Abstract Existence, we care about them, as abstractions, behaving like the page says each type of abstraction behaves. Otherwise, they are abstractions but dont have Abstract Existence, because they never showed that power. Simple as that.
Basically, we need to choose the right interpretation of abstract existence, if it's the latter, some profils who are an abstraction but doesn't have the requierment will lose the Type 1 abstract (like Disembodied Thought), if it's the former, sweet! all the case (such as the CT) are now Type 1 abstract and every other case like that will be treated as such.

Good night.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

My question is how can you be an abstraction without having abstract existence?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Edit your OP a bit so people dont think this is specifically Pokemon. This isnt strictly about the CT. This is about Abstract Existence in general.

 

[The_Causality]

@Cal from what i've understood, you can be an abtraction but not strictly type 1 due to not have the requierment for it.

@Kukui Edited.

 

[Antoniofer]

Personally, I think AE is a bad idea of a power, people is paying more attention to that page rather to how the "abstract" behave within its own verse.

By writing that Dialga and Palkia are the living concepts of Time and Space respectively, plus any power than that would involve should be enough to describe its abilities. Now, technically, is not like Dialga/Palkia embody/incarnate/represent time/space, they are the very time/space, but at the same time, if they decide to create an avatar, these avatar would embody time/space.

To put as reference, the difference between being a concept or universal force and incarnate a concept or universal force is the same difference between Concept Physiology and Power Manifestatio.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Edit your OP a bit so people dont think this is specifically Pokemon. This isnt strictly about the CT. This is about Abstract Existence in general.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

What exactly are the interpretations of type 1 abstract existence?

Thought type 1 is is existing purely as an abstraction and affecting you requires the ability to affect the abstraction.

Ie M (Shikkoku no Sharnoth) is the concept of darkness and the same as a realm of infinite darkness, so he has no physical body hence affect him requires affecting his abstraction, the concept of darkness.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

What if a character has been stated to be time itself, control time to their will, manipulating time in a negative way will directly affect them and have every form of time manipulation known to man. And if they die time dies

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Can they be affected without affecting time?.

Kikai and Critters from Sekien no Inganock are said to exist only as the possibilities of 41 lives, and it's said again and again that they are indestructible, can't be harmed etc etc, and that they are intangible, immaterial etc etc.

If they can be affected without harming their abstraction, it's not type 1 i guess.

 

[Overlord775]

By writing that Dialga and Palkia are the living concepts of Time and Space respectively, plus any power than that would involve should be enough to describe its abilities. Now, technically, is not like Dialga/Palkia embody/incarnate/represent time/space, they are the very time/space, but at the same time, if they decide to create an avatar, these avatar would embody time/space.

To put as reference, the difference between being a concept or universal force and incarnate a concept or universal force is the same difference between Concept Physiology and Power Manifestatio.

That's just power standardation, also the physical avatar are corporeal

and using powers from Powerlisting Wiki is banned, so don't bring them up

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

@CP Yes in their base form, not sure about true form. I'm assuming that is type 2?

 

[Everything12]

Type 2 would be being resurrected by the Abstract as long as it exists, so if the character was brought back every time it was destroyed or killed as long as Time exists then it would be Abstract Existence Type 2.

Edit: Is Time, and not the Concept of Time, Abstract enough for Abstract Existence? Cause Timeline aren't so would non-Conceptual Time be?

 

[Antoniofer]

That's just power standardation, also the physical avatar are corporeal

and using powers from Powerlisting Wiki is banned, so don't bring them up

Not really? What we avoid is to link to SPW in profiles, we can do it in other threads, afaik.

I generally link it so people have a broader perspective of how powers could work, and not limit oneself to the powers within this wiki. People tend to confuse a little with these types, so I encourage that, rather to choose between a limited list, just take the freedom to explain how the power work within its verse.

But lets turn technical, reading the AE type 1 is for entities that are the concept itself, that in the case of being the concept of time/space, it would apply; whatever is requiered to affect a concept depends of the verse, they may be nigh-omnipresent within its domain, or perhaps their essence remain in an special place.

AE type 2 is for incarnations that can resurrect as long the concept/force they represent remain unharmed, be an emotion like hope or an universal force like gravity.

 

[Overlord775]

Nope, it's totally and utterally banned to use SPW at all, we have our own power system, with it's own set of rules which are completly different from SPW's, so that's what we use to categorize powers and only that

 

[Antoniofer]

I'm afraid to say than that rule do not exist, the only rule that exist forbidden is to link it to profiles. Naturally, people are free to disagree, and we can't enforce these powers, but I only use it for reference, in this case, that not all incarnation or metaphysical entities are the same (is not like embodiments exist in real life, even according to few verses, you can say that even humans are emodiments of life).

 

[Overlord775]

You can't use for reference something that works in a completly different way tho

 

[Antoniofer]

Again, I bring another point of view; accept it or not, is for people to think outside of the bubble, not all AE have to be divided in two types. But people is being technical here, so as long the AE page is unaltered, being a living concept, universal force or whatever is AE type 1, like in the case of Dialga and Palkia.