conceptual manipulation and information type 2 Black clover

Hello , this is my first CRT if there is something wrong with this topic I apologize in advance

I propose that the souls in Black Clover have the physiology of a Type 2 concept since it's the Source of a type 2 concept like life, I also suggest that we put Type 2 information manipulation on people who can affect to the Magic/Attributes Because they are considered individual information within the back

 

[Deceived3596]

Nothing about this points to Conceptual Manipulation nor Information Manipulation.

Life, within itself isn't normally a concept, much less a Type 2 Concept, unless you have information which proves that people's individual life is conceptual in nature within Black Clover. This wouldn't be Conceptual Manipulation.

Affecting/creating different types of magic or attributes isn't information manipulation innately, this seems like power modification.

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

Nothing about this points to Conceptual Manipulation nor Information Manipulation.

Life, within itself isn't normally a concept, much less a Type 2 Concept, unless you have information which proves that people's individual life is conceptual in nature within Black Clover. This wouldn't be Conceptual Manipulation.

Affecting/creating different types of magic or attributes isn't information manipulation innately, this seems like power modification.

Wouldn't it even be type 3? Because it houses the mind too

 

[Deceived3596]

Wouldn't it even be type 3? Because it houses the mind too

The "mind", unless explained so in-depth, isn't assumed conceptual in nature, so no, it wouldn't be Type 3 without further evidence. It just means the soul contains the mind, similar to say, Bleach. Which would only grant a unconventional resistance towards Mind Manipulation which doesn't also target the soul, and allows Mind Manipulation resistances to scale in tandem with Soul Manipulation resistances.

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

The "mind", unless explained so in-depth, isn't assumed conceptual in nature, so no, it wouldn't be Type 3 without further evidence. It just means the soul contains the mind, similar to say, Bleach. Which would only grant a unconventional resistance towards Mind Manipulation which doesn't also target the soul, and allows Mind Manipulation resistances to scale in tandem with Soul Manipulation resistances.

There is a quote that the soul is made of mana , the mana on the back it is treated as a supernatural energy that exists in nature, and is kind of "abstract" to someone with no connection to it

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

The "mind", unless explained so in-depth, isn't assumed conceptual in nature, so no, it wouldn't be Type 3 without further evidence. It just means the soul contains the mind, similar to say, Bleach. Which would only grant a unconventional resistance towards Mind Manipulation which doesn't also target the soul, and allows Mind Manipulation resistances to scale in tandem with Soul Manipulation resistances.

I've made a better argument now and would like your opinion on

MAGIC IS A CONCEPT
Magic in BC is described as something inherent in the world
It also has its own laws as described by Klaus and was also mentioned in the databook.
Lucius also describes Asta as a defect of the world for not having magic , and antimagic like something that goes against reason

Moris also hints that with his magic that he can affect at the conceptual level he could also affect other people's magic.

And for the case of type 2 information, I'm still not sure but the knowledge/mind in BC is composed of shelves with books as shown by Lolopechika
What do you think about this ? With a better explanation and with these scans is it possible to make a CRT to confirm magic as a type 2 concept and mind as type 2 information as well?

 

[Deceived3596]

MAGIC IS A CONCEPT

I don't understand Japanese, if you could provide the full translation of that scan it would be appreciated.

Magic in BC is described as something inherent in the world It also has its own laws

Being inherent to the planet/universe isn't evidence that something's conceptual or abstract, humans are inherent to planet Earth, that doesn't mean humans are conceptual entities nor abstractions.

The "laws" within this context isn't abstract nor conceptual, it's just an inherent limitation that magic seems to have, also just being bounded by a "law", with said "law" being conceptual, abstract, fundamental etc. Doesn't mean the object bounded is conceptual, abstract, fundamental etc. Without further evidence of magic existing on the same level as those laws.

as described by Klaus and was also mentioned in the databook. Lucius also describes Asta as a defect of the world for not having magic , and antimagic like something that goes against reason

Again, nothing about this proves Conceptual Manipulation. Asta defying "reason" with his Anti-Magic isn't him actually defying the concept of reason itself, what Lucius means by "defying" reason is the fact he was born without magic, which when the natural law/reason of the world is that every human is born with magic, Asta having no magic, and instead having Anti-Magic, which is antithetical to magic, would "defy" the reasoning of the world in which all humans are born with magic.

Moris also hints that with his magic that he can affect at the conceptual level he could also affect other people's magic.

Effecting something with Conceptual Manipulation doesn't mean the object in question being affected is Conceptual in nature, Morris's Conceptual Manipulation is most likely affecting the "concept" of that person's magic to directly change how the "physical" expression of that concept acts, rather then magic being a "concept" within itself. Especially when Magic is shown and described in physical terms rather than something abstract or conceptual.

And for the case of type 2 information, I'm still not sure but the knowledge/mind in BC is composed of shelves with books as shown by Lolopechika What do you think about this ? With a better explanation and with these scans is it possible to make a CRT to confirm magic as a type 2 concept and mind as type 2 information as well?

That just seems like Information Manipulation (Type 1) from what i'm seeing, it seems like she inherent'd a specific ability which allows her to read through the vast quantity of information and experiences of the previous princesses.

After reading through everything you've posted, no, i don't believe you have enough information to argue for Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2) and Information Manipulation (Type 2), regardless of how good your rhetoric is. It just isn't enough evidence imo, you could ask these more knowledgeable members on both Black Clover and CM/IM to see what their opinions are.

Black Clover: @Arnoldstone18, @CloverDragon03

CM/IM: @DontTalkDT, @Everything12, @Theglassman12

 

[chosen]

I've made a better argument now and would like your opinion on

MAGIC IS A CONCEPT
Magic in BC is described as something inherent in the world
It also has its own laws as described by Klaus and was also mentioned in the databook.
Lucius also describes Asta as a defect of the world for not having magic , and antimagic like something that goes against reason

Moris also hints that with his magic that he can affect at the conceptual level he could also affect other people's magic.

And for the case of type 2 information, I'm still not sure but the knowledge/mind in BC is composed of shelves with books as shown by Lolopechika
What do you think about this ? With a better explanation and with these scans is it possible to make a CRT to confirm magic as a type 2 concept and mind as type 2 information as well?

I am confused how any of these is concept hax besides mortis which is special
Tho give Asta that conceptual power null.

Idk shit About im so can't say

 

[CloverDragon03]

I’m in agreement with Deceived. This does not suggest Conceptual Manipulation. Especially since characters like Lilith/Naamah and Morris affecting lesser scale concepts is such a big deal in the verse.

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

@CloverDragon03 ,@chosen ,@Deceived3596

I made something that encompasses practically all the characteristics for concept type 3 and 2

WORLD OF GLAMOUR

In Chapter 311, Morris claims to have conceptual manipulation after affecting Dorothy's glamor world, implying that the concept there was her magic.
Dorothy's world of glamor is basically her own mind, or something like that, however this world is made of dreams, which fits the nature of something abstract


It can be concluded that the mind in BC is characteristic of a type 3 concept, the soul is the source of the mind which would be a layer of a type 3 concept,For concept type 2 in this case it would be mana, mana is the origin of the soul and is fundamental and invisible