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Jinsye

She/Her
10,452
1,532
My two sword boys in Smash. Both are 4-A and scale to the same feat iirc. Speed =

Meta Knight: 0

Cloud Strife: 0

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5111936-9137147478-ffvii.jpg

 
Same

I'm tempted to say that Cloud does have an edge due to healing materia, but I'll get to this later... Wait he has heal too...

PreStar Allies? Standard Equipment or everything?
 
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Alright, I think I got a decent grasp, gonna make some assumptions throughout this argument but whatever, it'll be clarified to me at some point. I don't know too much about Kirby since I only played Super Star Ultra and Star Allies.

First thing we got is that Meta Knight's Regeneration won't be enough against Cloud's Regen Negation, as he beat Sephiroth's Regen, Mid G. Plus, he can harm intangible things. So anything Meta does with those don't really... Do much.

Next we got fighting styles. From my experience, Meta clearly prefers swordplay over much else, the same as Cloud, although we don't know for sure just how Cloud fights with a large amount of Materia on hand. In that regard, they should be evenly matched, although, Meta could have the range advantage with his sword beams and tornado, Galaxia clearly is a better sword that Cloud's Fusion Sword. However, Cloud has dealt with range before since... Well, Sephiroth's sword is massive, and it can attack in more angles than a simple sword beam can, especially with Dual Wielding with the Fusion Sword.

Right now, I'm leaning quite on Cloud's side, but Meta Knight's Duplication (not sure which version to use but I'm going to assume Star Allies's version). If I recall in the boss fight, it's been awhile, attacking one clone of Meta Knight damages the health bar in general, though, that could just be game mechanics. Regardless, Meta has four clones, which greatly overwhelms Cloud's singular body. However, factoring in that they both like to use their swords more often than not, this shouldn't be a problem if Cloud has the 4x Cut Materia, which allows him to basically attack four times simultaneously. He can use this to counteract Meta's four clones and their attacks. Of course, Meta still has the advantage since he's coming from multiple angles. I think this would be in character to use (again, don't really know how Cloud fights with more OP Materia), since this Materia directly enhances just his sword capabilities.

In addition, Cloud has All Materia. When paired with any of his Magic Materia (which he WILL use as the battle intensifies, likely), he can strike all opponent's with a single magic attack, when normally it'd just be one. In this case, he would use it with Bolt3, since Lightning and Ice Materia are his go to Materia (during the Bombing Mission in the original FF7, Cloud brings along Lightning and Ice Materia instead of the Remake, where it's Fire instead). One could argue that Meta can attack deflect, but in my opinion that's a big hard to do when lightning comes from above. But if that's the case, Cloud does have an answer to that, which I will go over in this next section.

The next thing Cloud would have to worry about is Meta's full health healing. Normally, I would call this as a stamina battle since Cloud also basically has a full heal of his own in Cure3 or FullCure (I don't say Curaga because I play the original FF7 so suck it I guess?). However, Cloud still has a lot of tricks at his disposal that I feel make it not the case. First case being that Meta Knight doesn't resist Time Stop, with his... Well, Time Materia. He wouldn't have enough... Well, time.... To heal himself before Cloud piles on his strongest Magic Spells on him, such as Comet2 or Ultima, attacks that cannot be reflected by Reflect Magic, aka Attack Reflection. And, if Cloud lands a Bio3, which can poison, the healing Meta receives will not be as great as it could be with the constant damage he is taking.

Meta Knight's greatest strength, to me is Healing and Duplication, but those two are shut down. So then there is teleportation, which, when paired with his usual fighting style of melee combat, eliminates a lot of options that Meta can use this ability offensively, as they will all be close up attacks anyways. Even with my argument towards Cloud, Meta will still get a lot of hits in due to Teleportation, Duplication, and fighting style. Thankfully for Cloud, that's where defensive Materia, along with his healing come into play. Barrier, Wall, MBarrier, or Big Guard will immensely help reduce the damage Meta deals out significantly

And... Friend Hearts... From what I remember in the game, those things are.... Slow... And if I recall, Cloud does resist Emphatic Manip too

However, again, we really don't know how Cloud fights, and he may just stick with his sword the majority of the time, in which case... Well, he loses. But I'm willing to bet that isn't the case, as soon as Meta Knight starts overwhelming him with speed and teleportation, his 4x Cut Materia just won't cut it, and he'd be forced to use his other Materia to win the fight.

This is a Cloud, Mid-Diff for me.
 
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Meta Knight’s borderline Galaxy Level in Star Allies key.
I’d also like to note that Friend Hearts aren’t slow (even if they were, Speed’s Equalized), and have a Multi-Galactic Potency on them. He also has low-godly Regen and Mid-Regen to heal wounds.
You are right in saying Mk leads with Swords though.
 
Cloud has mid godly and immortality negation, though I question if he has it or not. (Though it’s legit until I make a CRT)
 
Oh, okay. Well, if Meta is Borderline Galaxy level then it'd be even with Cloud's Galaxy Level right?

I've already explained that Cloud Negates that Regen since he... Well, has Regen Negation up to Mid G

Friend Hearts are Resisted anyways too
 
Even if they aren't, I'm pretty sure Cloud wouldn't just let himself get hit by it. Dude is taking out a pink heart, holding it over his head, before throwing it at the guy. That should set off a lot of red flags of "I better avoid this", plus he can't really do that in time stop either... Also uh- maybe I missed it on the page, where's the 3-B on it?

Edit: I found it, was a bit hard to see. It doesn't seem like something he'd use in character but I don't know much about Kirby, I played Star Allies, but I rarely used those hearts until I needed them.
 
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Friend Hearts don’t need direct Contact (I’m not sure how much contact though, they just don’t need to necessarily hit ig), and it should probably be a secondary starting move, right after his Sword Stuff, as the Friend Heart is a heavily used asset all throughout the game.
Shouldn’t he have a Plus on his profile if he is?
Honestly... not sure. I may not be new, but I have no clue how Plus’ work on the profiles, lol. I know they’re borderline Galaxy Level though- I think that’s what the ‘At Least’ is there for?
 
Why does this not work against bosses if it's so powerful, by the way? I'm still fairly sure that Meta would use all of his combat oriented tricks first before resorting to a Friend Heart, since he seems to be the combat type, instead of the friend focused happy go lucky Kirby.


But even if we factor this in, in order to use this safely without... Y'know, getting hit, Meta would likely want to get some distance to prevent being interrupted before lobbing the thing at Cloud. This essentially gives Cloud all the time he needs to recognize it as a major threat just by it's contradictory appearence compared to the rest of Meta's look, put two and two together to believe that getting hit by it is dangerous, and move away far enough to not get hit. Even then, Time Stop exists. I'm going to repeat again that we don't really know for sure as to how Cloud really fights, since all we really get in terms of him fighting without player influence is when he doesn't even have Materia to use. Theoretically, he can time stop, death hax, reflect, or any of his OP Materia first. He can also cast Haste to speed himself up to make sure he dodges, in addition to Slow to make sure Meta can't catch him by surprise with the heart.

I don't think Meta would start spamming hearts either, once he sees that they're missing, he should be intelligent enough to actually try something else. And if he somehow does default into Heart Spam, well, Cloud would have an easier time adapting to getting around the dangerous attack (example Time Stop wryyy)

I'll be honest and say that I feel that Meta has a better chance winning with his actual primary abilities compared to just lobbing Hearts at the dude who clearly knows it's bad news. If Heart really is his only way of competing, it doesn't really compare to how many ways Cloud can take him on with his versatility.
 
Why does this not work against bosses if it's so powerful, by the way?
We treat this as Game Mechanics- they have no reasons to resist it. In fact, after you beat them, a good portion of them can be Friend Hearted, I.e Dedede or Whispy.

Meanwhile, honestly it’s too far early for me to be debating so I’ll wait for someone more knowledgeable/come back later when I’m feeling better.
 
Healing has already been covered with my initial arguments. Summoning, not quite sure on that one, but speed amps don't really mean a thing against Cloud's Time Manipulation
 
Its basically just Meta bringing in his minions, nothing special. Cloud can likely summon the Knights of the Round to even the playing field, add in a couple Bahamuts too.
 
The healing is a complete heal to him and all allies and meta knight having a huge lifting strength that means everytime their blades clash meta knight wins the clash.
 
The new Supernova scaling for FFVII is weird, why does it link this for AP if it has a large section of the milky way? If we know there is a galaxy in that destroyed dimension then the feat's 3-C.
 
The new Supernova scaling for FFVII is weird, why does it link this for AP if it has a large section of the milky way? If we know there is a galaxy in that destroyed dimension then the feat's 3-C.
Well... Mostly because when I asked for calculations for it I was, for the most part, dismissed. So the best I had to carry the update were the common starry sky and baseline galaxy values.
 
The healing is a complete heal to him and all allies and meta knight having a huge lifting strength that means everytime their blades clash meta knight wins the clash.
I’m not sure how healing will work due to regen negation
 
Isn’t healing separate from Regen logically?

As Regen is something internal in the character(passive) while healing is a power to be activated.
 
Well... Mostly because when I asked for calculations for it I was, for the most part, dismissed. So the best I had to carry the update were the common starry sky and baseline galaxy values.
As I have no idea where that thread is, I'll ask you to please tell people there to look over my comment on the Sephy blog.
 
As Regen is something internal in the character(passive) while healing is a power to be activated.
How a power is activated doesn’t really change how the power works.

If Cloud can stop a dude from repairing his mind body and soul then why would a non passive form of regen change that?
 
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