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Clash of the immortals (Frisk vs Chosen Undead)

Hmm... Welp, I might as well bite.

First off. you should give Frisk their optional equipment... mostly cuz without them, Frisk's only method of attack is attacking the Chosen Undead with their fist and/or shots from their cellphone.

Getting this out of the way, Frisk likely does not have any method at their disposal that allows them to kill the Chosen Undead. Interestingly, the Chosen Undead has a possible method of defeating Frisk via Soul Abopsrtion under the assumption that it prevents Frisk from resetting. If it doesn't, welp, that's too bad, CD can't defeat Frisk the normal way, but still has the option of killing Frisk enough times that their willpower doesn't hold on and they simply give up.

... Or the Chosen Undead could hold onto Frisk for a day with their superior lifting strength to win that way if Frisk doesn't wanna reset.

Oddly, Frisk's only method of winning is them using their Sleep Manipulation via Sing to knock out CD to win if he doesn't wake up in an hour since he doesn't have any specific resistance. Frisk is also a pacifist in this key, and they would not hesitate to use their sleep hax so that they may show mercy and spare their opponent.

Frisk also has a form of Reactive Power Level and may be able to reach Chosen's Undead's AP, but idk. Their Social Influencing and Information Analysis probs helps them figure out CD and could allow them to discover their only win-con, but idk.

The Chosen Undead is the more stronger and skilled of the two but doesn't have a truly reliable way to put down Frisk. Frisk has a reliable method of putting down Chosen Undead... but that is literally the only thing they have going for them, they won't die immediately and could stay in the fight indefinitely, but putting CD to sleep is their own method of winning.

This honestly might be a true Incon match.
 
Alright so chosen undead resists the only thing that can make him lose, and the chances of him listening to frisk is pretty low considering the people he kills in Dark Souls probably are fighting reluctantly.

He has prior knowledge, which makes him go for the incap which his class K lifting strength along with his general skill should make that relatively easy.

Frisk runs over, tries to Fallout las vegas frisk, chosen undead cosplays Homer simpson, grabbing the child and throwing them into a shed or some other place locking them in

IC frisk doesn't abuse reset nor loading so if they're stuck so they aren't going to load unless they die. so throw into shed gg.
 
FantaRin_The_First said:
Getting this out of the way, Frisk likely does not have any method at their disposal that allows them to kill the Chosen Undead. Interestingly, the Chosen Undead has a possible method of defeating Frisk via Soul Abopsrtion under the assumption that it prevents Frisk from resetting. If it doesn't, welp, that's too bad, CD can't defeat Frisk the normal way, but still has the option of killing Frisk enough times that their willpower doesn't hold on and they simply give up.
Click to expand...
If he did kill frisk, he would naturally absorbs their soul (as he does with any enemy in dark souls) and nullify frisk dying, which does mean the chosen undead has a wincon. (assuming this cancels out their loads and resets)

frisk however, in theory can reason with the chosen undead, but in all realistic outcomes is he going to listen? chances are he runs at them and throws em in a shed or soul absorbs them.
 
FarerPurple said:
If he did kill frisk, he would naturally absorbs their soul (as he does with any enemy in dark souls) and nullify frisk dying, which does mean the chosen undead has a wincon. (assuming this cancels out their loads and resets)

frisk however, in theory can reason with the chosen undead, but in all realistic outcomes is he going to listen? chances are he runs at them and throws em in a shed or soul absorbs them.
Click to expand...
In theory, if Chosen Undead grapples them and throws them in a shed, Frisk would be driven to reset. Maybe. Frisk really doesn't have an in character. Technically. 8-B Frisk is still a Frisk that is controlled by The Player first-and-foremost, all of their ACT actions are things Frisk would do, yes, but all of their actions are still decided upon and acted on by the player.

Plus, with the way that Frisk's Reset is worded in their wiki page, Frisk can choose to reset at any time... since the player can close the game and load back to their reset without Frisk dying, but that's probably too meta to be accepted.

Honestly, I don't buy Chosen Undead's Soul Absorption due to the above reasoning.

Their speed is equalized, so Frisk should be able to react to Chosen Undead's moves, and... Frisk has dodging feats, so if CD runs at them, they would do their best to dodge and attempt to reason with CD... Or just start Singing to activate their sleep manipulation hax since Frisk is an RPG character, so it is quite possible that they do the best move first. IDK. RPG Characters are weird in Verse Threads.

Additionally, CD doesn't have any resistance to social influencing and a lot of Frisk foes were folks that wanted to kill them in one way or another but Frisk managed to talk them down. Probably doesn't work that way, but it is a step in the right direction.

... Or nothing could happen, and CD and Frisk are stuck in a loop of incapping and resetting.
 
FantaRin_The_First said:
Plus, with the way that Frisk's Reset is worded in their wiki page, Frisk can choose to reset at any time... since the player can close the game and load back to their reset without Frisk dying, but that's probably too meta to be accepted.
Click to expand...
How its worded and used are different. frisk never loads or resets in the case of them being put into a situation they cant get out of (except with asriel, who quite literally could not be reasoned with until the end of the fight, and was a universal goat god.) and yes thats too meta.
FantaRin_The_First said:
Honestly, I don't buy Chosen Undead's Soul Absorption due to the above reasoning.
Click to expand...
The human souls absorbed by flowey couldn't freely use their save files while under his control, the same should apply to frisk.
FantaRin_The_First said:
Their speed is equalized, so Frisk should be able to react to Chosen Undead's moves, and... Frisk has dodging feats, so if CD runs at them, they would do their best to dodge and attempt to reason with CD... Or just start Singing to activate their sleep manipulation hax since Frisk is an RPG character, so it is quite possible that they do the best move first. IDK. RPG Characters are weird in Verse Threads.
Click to expand...
chosen undead outskills to hell and back. doesn't start with sleep manip, and would have no reason to anyways as 'start with their best move' doesn't mean 'prior knowledge on how to beat the opponent'. they'll start with their best move against someone they dont know about. which is CQC and social influencing.
FantaRin_The_First said:
Additionally, CD doesn't have any resistance to social influencing and a lot of Frisk foes were folks that wanted to kill them in one way or another but Frisk managed to talk them down. Probably doesn't work that way, but it is a step in the right direction.
Click to expand...
You don't need to have resistance to social influencing to not listen to someone. frisk could talk their way out of fights in undertale because the monsters they were fighting were actually nice people. put them against an undead warrior hellbent on powering the first flame any means necessary and you begin to see that he doesn't give a shit that your trying to talk him down.
FantaRin_The_First said:
... Or nothing could happen, and CD and Frisk are stuck in a loop of incapping and resetting.
Click to expand...
the most likely outcome if frisk was bloodlusted. but here, again, frisk doesn't abuse their time manipulation. they only ever use it once they die, making incap a very possible outcome.
 
FarerPurple said:
the most likely outcome if frisk was bloodlusted. but here, again, frisk doesn't abuse their time manipulation. they only ever use it once they die, making incap a very possible outcome.
Click to expand...
No? They can use any time they want, It is just not a cenario needed during any part of undertale, but you as frisk can reset to a previous save or the entire game at any moment
 
JustANormalLemon said:
No? They can use any time they want, It is just not a cenario needed during any part of undertale, but you as frisk can reset to a previous save or the entire game at any moment
Click to expand...
show me a time in the neutral where run frisk actively uses reset and load to escape a situation. (that isn't forcibly done by the player)
 
But if you want a exemple, whem he try to acess a save point before omega flower fight, to try to reset to before every thing has gone down
 
JustANormalLemon said:
But if you want a exemple, whem he try to acess a save point before omega flower fight, to try to reset to before every thing has gone down
Click to expand...
trying to save =/= trying to load after being stuck
JustANormalLemon said:
There is even actions not done by the player thst have great inpact into frisk as a character in the way they fight?
Click to expand...
lets say they did abuse their time haxes like you want to think they do.

why didn't frisk just... abuse any of their other haxes for the neutral run? the point of the run is to not kill anyone, not become their friend

so why didn't they just abuse the sleep hax to get through everyone? its because they only use it against one person. same thing applies here. they only ever try to load out of a situation when they're fighting someone leagues above them and actively being paralyzed, power nulled, etc. here frisk is being thrown in a box for at least 24 hours. they really have no reason to load when its just being stuck in a shed.
 
Here.

Hmm... Been thinking... Err... Watching. Basically, well, I am convinced that if CD traps Frisk somewhere, they would reset. They have the power to do so whenever they please. Case-in-point, Flowey's changing dialogue in The Ruins in the reaction to the things Frisk can do and Sans' dialogue in the Judgment Hall until Sans gives the key to his lab. Okay, while all of this is player-based, it serves as proof Frisk can, at the drop of a hat, reset without dying to do things again or to see if anything new will happen.

And for Farer's point of Frisk not using their hax... can't counter it, but... I think that is more of a limitation due to Undertale being a 2-D RPG more than anything else... Then again... Resetting is hella of a thing, that CD can't stop, so they might try to use it eventually.
 
FantaRin_The_First said:
Here.

Hmm... Been thinking... Err... Watching. Basically, well, I am convinced that if CD traps Frisk somewhere, they would reset. They have the power to do so whenever they please. Case-in-point, Flowey's changing dialogue in The Ruins in the reaction to the things Frisk can do and Sans' dialogue in the Judgment Hall until Sans gives the key to his lab. Okay, while all of this is player-based, it serves as proof Frisk can, at the drop of a hat, reset without dying to do things again or to see if anything new will happen.

And for Farer's point of Frisk not using their hax... can't counter it, but... I think that is more of a limitation due to Undertale being a 2-D RPG more than anything else... Then again... Resetting is hella of a thing, that CD can't stop, so they might try to use it eventually.
Click to expand...
if they reset they become Wall level, and CD repeats the same thing, the only difference being he one shots frisk, making it hell of alot easier.

and, in character, they still dont Reset, meaning its either incon or chosen undead. its still a valid wincon for him to soul absorb them.
 
FarerPurple said:
then rince and repeat, get outskilled, thrown into shed or something else.

or get murdered and soul absorbed.
Click to expand...
About soul absorption, frisk soul never was absorbed by any monster that killed him, probable due to reseting faster them soul being absorbed, so probable not hapening
 
and the chosen undead is beating the shit out of them with his bare hands, which means either;

the soul doesn't break instantly

it doesn't really matter since theres a small time between the break and their death so he can absorb it
 
FarerPurple said:
and the chosen undead is beating the shit out of them with his bare hands, which means either;

the soul doesn't break instantly

it doesn't really matter since theres a small time between the break and their death so he can absorb it
Click to expand...
I'm acctualy tring to say that Frisk isn't dead until the soul breaks, the soul breaking is his past moments as he grasp for life in that faling corpse, the determination giving him another chance

So, the soul breaking animation is irrelevant here
 
JustANormalLemon said:
I'm acctualy tring to say that Frisk isn't dead until the soul breaks, the soul breaking is his past moments as he grasp for life in that faling corpse, the determination giving him another chance

So, the soul breaking animation is irrelevant here
Click to expand...
if frisk isn't dead until the soul breaks, then soul absorb gg since thats not killing them.
 
FarerPurple said:
if frisk isn't dead until the soul breaks, then soul absorb gg since thats not killing them.
Click to expand...
Frisk soul being damaged alao damage him phisicaly... it's just the last seconds of frisk life ending...

Similar to the idea of "you can hear your blood faling out of your corpse after having your head cutted out of your body"
 
JustANormalLemon said:
Frisk soul being damaged alao damage him phisicaly... it's just the last seconds of frisk life ending...

Similar to the idea of "you can hear your blood faling out of your corpse after having your head cutted out of your body"
Click to expand...
the chosen undead literally absorbs the souls of people he killed, passively.

frisk takes a second or so to die, in that time the chosen undead can absorb their soul.
 
Everyone Frisk fights can absorb their soul but they're never able to because of LOAD.
You can sit in the death screen and die to any number of monsters for as long as you want without it happening.

Therefore one can only assume that it happens as soon as they die, rather than some time after.
 
FinePoint said:
Everyone Frisk fights can absorb their soul but they're never able to because of LOAD.
You can sit in the death screen and die to any number of monsters for as long as you want without it happening.

Therefore one can only assume that it happens as soon as they die, rather than some time after.
Click to expand...
because they have to manually go and grab it. flowey proves that. frisk simply dies before anyone could even try and grab their soul.

hell, sometimes characters who COULD dont due because they dont want to (flowey, sans, and undyne the undying all dont absorb your soul due to matters of their own, with flowey wanting to torture you, sans wanting to piss you off and thinks your a time traveler, and undyne has no idea and just wants to ******* kill you)

the chosen undead's soul absorption is passive, and he does it instantly once he kills an opponent, the same applies here, so he can do such.
 
Doesn't the reason frisk's soul isn't absorbed by monsters is because they want to take it asgore so he can absorb seven and then break the barrier? absorbing the soul would go against that plan
 
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