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Chara vs. Betty

Pretty sure Betty just uses Illusory craft, stabs her through the soul, they have no soul, then she just leaves them in their own fantasies forever.
 
Actually, this is false. When Chara is FULLY consumed by HATE, not only do they have a times 10 boost to their power, but they are truly evil with no true redeeming qualities. From what we've seen, Betty's only used illusion in regards to who their target cares about. However, this wouldn't matter as, when consumed absolutely by HATE, no amount of convincing could save Chara. They will be more than prone to killing people he cares about. Chara was only able to be saved within Season 1 was because he didn't get conpletely consumed in HATE as said by the WoG. Chara would be as fast, if not even faster than Betty with full HATE. Therefor, their overall speed will be much higher than Betty's, so Chara could react to pretty much anything Betty had to throw at him. That on top of Chara becoming Universal+ entity at that point, it's a quick W for Chara.
 
>Unfounded multiplier stated absolutely nowhere (Low 7-C 10x isn't even 7-B)

>Betty could make an illusion of a car, which Frisk definitely didn't care about considering he proceeded to let it explode upon hitting his barrier

>This is Season 1 Chara anyhow, we just distinguish Season 1 as "HATE" and Season 2 as "Revived"

>W H E R E
 
>Stated inside of the OFFICIAL Glitchtale wiki. I never said that it brings them up a tier. I'm saying, overall, Chara's stats would be higher within that tier.

>True, that was something I overlooked, but illusions aren't the only singular reason why Chara would lose. If we made that argument, then Betty should have easily won in the Frisk Vs Betty fight. Chara's DETERMINATION is said to reach even higher heights

>How is that relevant to the conversation? Chara's power should be that same as before. Especially since he has a shiny, new SOUL.

>He's Universal+ with FILE 0, which is an ability Chara gets when they are in possession of HATE. It's an ability exclusive to Chara.
 
Chara can't even use Low 2-C by himself lol

Also File 0 is just stats amp, not anything Universal+ or else he wouldn't need to use Asriel to nuke a timeline
 
The multiplier is never stated in the show and outright contradicts feats and statements (Betty goes from Low 7-C to 7-B, Sans, a 8-B, started hurting Frisk). Unless you're telling me Camilla put it there (and she usually saves WOG for Tumblr), that's no dice.

Betty was overconfident and being all sadistic. If she really wanted to end it, and she would have put them in an illusion and stabbed them outright. Instead, she decided to beat them into the ground, then turn their friends against him. Here, she's faced with someone she has no way of killing so she'll just GG it.

He can't even use FILE 0 without someone else pushing the button. And that doesn't scale to AP whatsoever.

Because the power gap doesn't really mean much when you're multiplying off an "unknown" (Multiplier doesn't even apply, but hammering in the point)
 
Actually, that's wrong. FILE 0 allows Chara to freely manipulate his statistics. It's an ability they have and it can work without someone else pushing the button. Because that's how it works. Sans, being capable of hurting Frisk, was most likely because of KR/KARMA, has the same functionality it has within the game. Tiers don't matter when it comes to hax, unless said hax is weak and can be easily countered. KR, at least from what we've seen, can't be countered so easily.

I believe you're missing the point about Bete's illusions. She can create them within the current, not put them in some sort of Genjutsu or whatever you're trying to make it out to be. If Betty was within a dire situation in which she'd need to escape/kill off a character, using illusions would probably be a good way to do it, but it's not always guarenteed that, just because she has those illusions, that she is given the W.

If you would kindly look at VsBattle Wiki, which I most likely assume you get your stats from, 7-B is within the range of 1 Megaton of force all the way to 6.3 Megatons of force. So, to have her in the range of 7-B after being a 7-C level character, she'd HAVE to be a maximum of 7-C in order to even scratch the surface of 7-B. So, going off of that, she'd probably have a good AP tiering of about low-end 7-B, 10 Megatons of force with HATE or even higher due to her collecting SOULS over time.

With that, the multiplier for HATE would actually make a lot more sense than you think it does. Even if the multiplier for HATE, said on the wiki, isn't from WoG, it'd effect all people who have HATE, making the argument of what the multiplier is, fanon or canon, to be irrelevant at this point as it wouldn't change much in grand scheme of things. Unless HATE has a variable power (more than it already is as the power HATE gives is dependent on the wielder's cooperation), then I could strongly say that you have a point.
 
Illusion Casting
This is a bit blaint, more then I need to explain.

Tiering System is where I get it,

The gap between 1.3810108971 Kilotons and 6.3 Megatons is 4561.87566168336. A ten times multiplier would make them Town level, 13.810108971. Which I suppose would be a sensible downgrade considering we don't know the size of the city and the act of blowing it up could be much lower then 7-B itself. Of course, then when you throw in Sans, Asriel and other HATE stuff, this becomes a lot, lot more of a mindfork which I'd really think we'd both like to simplify as "unstated multipliers are forked"
 
tbf I think the city is a tad bigger than 5 km

So it's a reasonable assumption for 7-B
 
DMUA said:
Of course, then when you throw in Sans, Asriel and other HATE stuff, this becomes a lot, lot more of a mindfork which I'd really think we'd both like to simplify as "unstated multipliers are forked"
Click to expand...
 
That illusion move isn't much of a Genjutsu-type deal and more of creating an illusion upon one's self to take the form of another in terms of visuals. Even if it was some sort of Genjutsu-tyle dealio, it looks like direct eye contact needs to be made in order for the illusion to even work. If that's the case, then Chara would probably be smart enough for less intense anime stare fests and more slicing and dicing Bad Bitch Betty until she dies to death.


Memes aside, the multiplier of x10 is the only thing we can really go off of. Especially since the multiplier has been looked at as x10 for a very long time within the Official wiki. Perhaps we'd need to ask Camilla as some things in Glitchtale aren't explained or touched upon too much. However, that'd probably not be allowed within this debate as it's vague, so let's just say that HATE is, at the very least, the same for everyone in terms of the power increase it gives.


Honestly, the tiers for Betty are a bit messed up as the only real way she'd transition from 7-C to 7-B is if she was at least High 7-C.
 
It would be more of a combat hinderance to deliberately not look at someone's eyes, which Chara wouldn't even know to do. Both are extremely hard to kill just via punching anyways, so even if she could manage to fight without looking near her face at all, she probably wouldn't be able to do anything that gets past Low-Mid

Which she has no feats of.

Look at this for guidance.
 
You do bring up a good point with the multipliers, but do you really have to look at one's eyes within combat? I'd say you'd have to at least watch their movements. It doesn't necessarily have to be her eyes. Chara, with HATE, is allowed FILE 0, in which he could manipulate his defense, health, attack, and level of violence. Not to mention Special Hell, which is a plane of existence that Chara is able to bend to his will. Not to mention the ERASE button, which could erase an entire timeline from existence, and teleportation. Even if Betty could create an illusion to get some time to nab Chara's SOUL, their durability, as a result of FILE 0, would be increased to such a state where they could probably be durable enough to not get stabbed to get his SOUL stolen.
 
Not to mention that DETERMINATION is the foil to FEAR. We could perhaps assume that, since DETERMINATION counters FEAR to an extent, that Chara would have a resistance against Betty's FEAR-based abilities. However, that is only a thought.
 
You don't need to look at their eyes, but people have a tendency to look at the opponent's face, and Chara's nonthewiser.

They can't use it on their own, that's the point. Otherwise they would have killed the timeline and amped beyond Asriel's level.

Betty has teleportation and time isn't in Chara's favor. Even if he amps himself to insane degree, Betty can just sit there while Chara's incaped for 24. She doesn't need to kill them, in fact, killing them wouldn't do anything.
 
Yes he could have. If they weren't able to use the ability, they wouldn't have the ability in the first place. Where was the implication that he couldn't use it on his own? Also, HATE wasn't in full effect at the time, so it wasn't as powerful as it could have been if Chara completely succumbed to HATE. Both of them have teleportation, so it's more of a who uses what first to get the W. Increasing Chara's stats, honestly, will most likely not take much time. Especially with their DETERMINATION already increasing their stats, FILE 0 would be much faster. The reason WHY Chara didn't kill Asriel was because Chara still loved him. Which is why HATE wasn't at full effectiveness. With Betty, I'm pretty sure Chara wouldn't feel literally anything by offing her. Chara would have no reason to hold back. Literally none.
 
I say Chara FRA, better feats I think, plus I don't see Betty getting over Chara who was fast enough to fight Asriel (Base while amped by Frisk's soul). I say Chara stomps tbh. Chara has no reason to hold back.
 
Chara has better hax last I checked, I think that's what would decide this fight. To be honest Chara only matched a base 7 soul Asriel, not Angel of Death form Asriel. We know his base is only a mere fraction of his Angel of Death form. However, Chara can at least push base Asriel which alone puts her well above Omega Flowey. Last I checked Omega Flowey should be what, stronger than the Frisk who was comparable to Betty? Pretty sure Chara edges Betty out at least slightly in all stats, plus better hax so gg. Chara should get the W.
 
Check again because in-between them, only one has the ability to take down the other past durability.

Betty is 7-B. Revived Chara scales to Betty. Asriel scales to Chara.

Asriel with 7 souls should be stronger then himself with the remenants of the SOULs, and Chara fought them

It's not really hard powerscaling.
 
ZothythoTheNephalem said:
Snip
Click to expand...
He can't push the button on his own. Otherwise he would have instead of asking Asriel to do it. He straight up says "Sadly, I can't press it."

That argument can be reapplied to Bête.

A look to the eyes is significantly more likely then Chara stat amping to overpower them. Especially considering Betty is well within willing to do it when she needs to do it, meanwhile Chara didn't amp that much throughout the entire fight with Asriel.
 
Chara does have the better overall hax though, again even if we threw Betty a bone and said that she equals or even slightly surpasses Chara in stats she can't get over the hax of Chara which would definitely stomp Betty.
 
Problem

Just saying "Hax" doesn't justify your argument

You need to explain how that Hax would actually help win a fight
 
Which he outright says he can't push himself.

Next?
 
Special Hell is literally just him saying welcome to my Special Hell. It's not a special move.

Doesn't help against people as strong as him, either that or it's not in character to use that to his advantage, considering the Asriel fight.
 
It is a special move. Special Hell is a special move that brings one into another plane of existence in which he can manipulate. It isn't out of character. Chara will do whatever it takes to win and will do so by any means necessary.
 
It doesn't really do much as shown in the episode it stars in.

And it definitely doesn't help against gazing, which Betty will pull against someone she absolutely cannot kill.
 
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