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This is once again out of context nonsense from SeiryuShin.SeiryuShin said:After helping Nexus Prime hide his five new pieces, Vector went into hiding in the universe Aurex 404.11 Kappa and locked away all memories of his trauma.
There, he became the Autobot's leader and wielded the Matrix of Leadership. He had a bodyguard, Scorpia, during his Matrix-bearer days, and the two became close despite the difference in rank (and his initial reluctance to act on his feelings for a subordinate). After leading the Autobots to victory in the Second Cybertronian War against such foes as Devron, Megazarak, and the Destructons, he was called on by the Chronarchitect to help fix damage to Time itself! Reluctantly, he passed the Matrix to Guardian Major.
With a group of fellows, the Time Warriors—Scorpia, medical officer Kaltor, intelligence officer Autoceptor, and quantum scientist Deceptor—Vector Prime faced foe and threat before discovering their true enemy, Mogahn the Mass, an indescribable entity that absorbed entire star systems into itself. In the final battle, Vector found his mind entering the Realm of the Primes and learning his true identity once more; [1]Adaptus gifted him the power to create the mighty sword Rhisling, and he smote Mogahn so hard that his remains went back in time and detonated in the Big Bang.
[2]Vector Prime's sword is higher than unicron's current status and he has no chance at all against Unicro
Yet another example of SeiryuShin twisting facts. Except this time he completely ignored everything else I wrote.SeiryuShin said:so you admit removing Unicron was wiping out continuity yet ignore the fact Vector Prime flat out states he wiped out all timelines, okay
Funny, because according to the Covenant of Primus book, which is Prime canon, Unicron could be killed by trapping him in a star and becoming "fissioned out of existence". Know what else has standard star-level power? The Star Saber. Multiverse-busting to defeat Prime Unicron would be overkill, especially in a battle the Thirteen were seriously worried about.SeiryuShin said:"I'm also not accepting the scan of the FunPub comic in which the Star Saber is said to be able to collapse the multiversal stack. Firstly because it's dubious as that power level may very well only be capable if tainted by evil according to the writing, as the Star Saber is normally star-level."
Different incarnations of the Star saber do not have the same power as seen in Prime Universes
And no there is no indication this is only if it's "Tainted by evil" that's ridiculous, that's like saying the Triforce becomes multiversal if Ganon gets it which is not implied anywhere in the series
After rebutting SeiryuShin's prior scaling this point being made loses any meaning. Vector Prime beat Mogahn the Mass through mcguffin plot devices and only after nearly dying fighting him across realities and help from the other Primes. Unicron ignores smaller beings unless he can use them and Vector Prime has to deal with the quantum shockwaves resulting from Unicron's very existence. Unicron avoids Mogahn like the plague. Vector Prime isn't a universe buster, and Unicron doesn't even approach multiverse busting.SeiryuShin said:Dear Vector Prime,
Who is your arch nemesis?
Dear Opposite One,
I don't know as if I have a single arch nemesis. Certainly in my role as guardian of time and space, my most frequent opponent is Unicron, but he often seems barely aware of my existence. Sideways is, of course, a frequent morpho-thorn in my side. I once had a series of memorable encounters with Gigatron--the one hailing from Primax 603.0 Beta, I mean, with transmorphic regenerative abilities. Though, come to think of it, the Gigatron hailing from Primax 400.05 Alpha and his Destronger were also dimension hoppers.
Vector Prime flat out admits he can't even get Unicron's attention to the point he doesn't even seem aware of his existence
Admin or not, the guy purposely blocked me twice so he wouldn't have to debate me. That said, I preferably will not need to direct any words towards him with his hiatus and this discussion being hopefully settled. I never look to for hostility; I just don't appreciate being treated poorly.Antvasima said:I think that the above seems reasonable, but please tone down the hostility towards Seiryu. He is senior admin here after all. Thank you.
Unicron had already been weakened at this point so it's not a point against unicronIustitia Prime said:Funny, because according to the Covenant of Primus book, which is Prime canon, Unicron could be killed by trapping him in a star and becoming "fissioned out of existence". Know what else has standard star-level power? The Star Saber. Multiverse-busting to defeat Prime Unicron would be overkill, especially in a battle the Thirteen were seriously worried about.SeiryuShin said:"I'm also not accepting the scan of the FunPub comic in which the Star Saber is said to be able to collapse the multiversal stack. Firstly because it's dubious as that power level may very well only be capable if tainted by evil according to the writing, as the Star Saber is normally star-level."Different incarnations of the Star saber do not have the same power as seen in Prime Universes
And no there is no indication this is only if it's "Tainted by evil" that's ridiculous, that's like saying the Triforce becomes multiversal if Ganon gets it which is not implied anywhere in the series
Regardless, again, if the Star Saber can bust multiverses casually rather than as a result of tainting from evil, why would the Fallen need it? Why is it a danger in the hands of Unicron if SeiryuShin thinks he already has this power? The comic panels SeiryuShin keeps referencing shows Vector Prime as a spark of light which is what the Star Saber was intended to be wielded by. It then shows a picture of The Fallen complemented by the claim that evil was spreading and the multiverse could collapse if it fell into the hands of evil.
SeiryuShin can interpret that however he wants. Honestly, it doesn't matter. Unicron LOST to the Thirteen, the Star Saber among their weapons. Unicron was stomped so badly they sent his comatose body floating through space for so long that Earth formed around him. This is not up for debate. According to another page of the Covenant of Primus, Unicron only destroys planets and suns. He needs to to increase his power.
If Unicron was a multiverse-buster he wouldn't have to resort to absorbing stars, he wouldn't have been beaten by the Star Saber and the Thirteen, he wouldn't need the Star Saber, and the Star Saber - star or multiverse level power - falling into his hands wouldn't change anything thus making Nexus Prime's fears moot.
The writing suggests the Saber was only meant to be wielded by a spark of light; the corollary to that being it's not meant to be held by sparks of darkness. Either way, no feats for Unicron. Another attempt at bad scaling.
Not a point against him? This is not an argument. Unicron lost to the Thirteen. I've already demonstrated that Unicron not only didn't create the singularity under his own power, not only did he trapped in the singularity, but it was the destabalizing affecting of pulling in other Unicrons that would've, eventually, destroyed the multiverse. Unicron had no say in it. Again, you're conflating Hasbro's "multiversal singualrity" concept as being directly relating to Unicron's destructive capacity which I've shown is wrong.SeiryuShin said:Unicron had already been weakened at this point so it's not a point against unicronIustitia Prime said:Funny, because according to the Covenant of Primus book, which is Prime canon, Unicron could be killed by trapping him in a star and becoming "fissioned out of existence". Know what else has standard star-level power? The Star Saber. Multiverse-busting to defeat Prime Unicron would be overkill, especially in a battle the Thirteen were seriously worried about.SeiryuShin said:"I'm also not accepting the scan of the FunPub comic in which the Star Saber is said to be able to collapse the multiversal stack. Firstly because it's dubious as that power level may very well only be capable if tainted by evil according to the writing, as the Star Saber is normally star-level."Different incarnations of the Star saber do not have the same power as seen in Prime Universes
And no there is no indication this is only if it's "Tainted by evil" that's ridiculous, that's like saying the Triforce becomes multiversal if Ganon gets it which is not implied anywhere in the series
Regardless, again, if the Star Saber can bust multiverses casually rather than as a result of tainting from evil, why would the Fallen need it? Why is it a danger in the hands of Unicron if SeiryuShin thinks he already has this power? The comic panels SeiryuShin keeps referencing shows Vector Prime as a spark of light which is what the Star Saber was intended to be wielded by. It then shows a picture of The Fallen complemented by the claim that evil was spreading and the multiverse could collapse if it fell into the hands of evil.
SeiryuShin can interpret that however he wants. Honestly, it doesn't matter. Unicron LOST to the Thirteen, the Star Saber among their weapons. Unicron was stomped so badly they sent his comatose body floating through space for so long that Earth formed around him. This is not up for debate. According to another page of the Covenant of Primus, Unicron only destroys planets and suns. He needs to to increase his power.
If Unicron was a multiverse-buster he wouldn't have to resort to absorbing stars, he wouldn't have been beaten by the Star Saber and the Thirteen, he wouldn't need the Star Saber, and the Star Saber - star or multiverse level power - falling into his hands wouldn't change anything thus making Nexus Prime's fears moot.
The writing suggests the Saber was only meant to be wielded by a spark of light; the corollary to that being it's not meant to be held by sparks of darkness. Either way, no feats for Unicron. Another attempt at bad scaling.
Also saying he's barely universal due to the singularity taking time then Dimentio should be downgraded for the same reason, as his void hole which was eating a smaller multiverse was also taking time to do so
And yet again you're not even trying to understand the arguments you're dismissing. I've already said that it's not a feat to begin with. I'm not ignoring a feat because it's outright not a feat to begin with. And it doesn't matter how important Unicron is the the TF multiverse; that's not nor has it ever been the question. The question is what is Unicron's destructive capacity and that very clearly has nothing to do with the Grand Black Hole. You've tried every trick in the book and none of them are going to work on someone actually familiar with the franchise. Your scaling doesn't work and your feats aren't feats.SeiryuShin said:I will keep the current changes and let him affect the others however I do not like the weak assumptions on ignoring a feat because "it took time" or "it only happened because chaos and order became unbalanced" - this would still mean unicron's existence upholds a significant portion of the multiverse
I've made my final changes to the page and will leave it as so
I want to work on the regular pages and that's what I went back to as soon as the original decision was made. And then I was blocked again. So no, sorry, you've been very cool about this as have the others here. But I will not have the threat of being blocked looming over my head for challenging SeiryuShin's opinion. Especially when he's demonstrably wrong and every point I've raised is logically sound or blatantly disproves his assertions. I don't want to contribute to a site that not only doesn't value my edits but also punishes me for my opinions even when the majority agree with me.Antvasima said:Okay.
Can you accept the compromise of reworking the regular pages Iustitia? I would greatly appreciate it, as they are in a bad shape.
Yeah, screw that. I added no incorrect information and he can't cite anything false. Literally all he has is dubious powerscaling. He has no feats. None. Unicron may be a jobber like Galactus but at least Galactus has feats and statements backing up his reputation, whereas all Unicron has is "Well the Thirteen may possibly be multiversal if we make assumptions about a single panel in a discontinued comic arc so obviously Unicron is multiversal".SeiryuShin said:I blocked you twice for adding incorrect information and I see nothing wrong with doing so, and I will do it again if you continue