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Chainsaw Man discussion thread

Kooliooooo said:
quick question, why do we upscale mid tiers such as post training denji and co to the 440 tons from snake devil?
Click to expand...
Forgive me for not putting a note on the verse page for this.

This is because it was not an arbitrary upscale from the Snake Devil but a conservative backscale through Santa Claus.

Post-Weakening Denji already had a baseline 8-A route through Awakened Yuko and old Public Safety suit scaling, so keeping Post-Training Denji in the same 100 ton range made the keys feel too compressed. We then decided to use Nighttime Santa as the bridge, since Post-Training Denji takes comparable damage from her nighttime form as he does from her daytime form.

The fire also did not instantly make Santa massively weaker. Her regeneration was still functioning normally at first and only started slowing down over time, so the Santa Denji fought should not be treated as some heavily nerfed version from the start.

Because of that, Denji's physicals were placed at the lower Snake Devil value around 443 tons, as a conservative backscale rather than scaling him fully to Nighttime Santa's higher value. Characters who are relative to him or scale through his chainsaws, Katana, Reze and the New Public Safety suit chain then follow from that.

See here: https://vsbattles.com/threads/chainsaw-man-address-me.189605/
 
GunshyFever said:
Forgive me for not putting a note on the verse page for this.

This is because it was not an arbitrary upscale from the Snake Devil but a conservative backscale through Santa Claus.

Post-Weakening Denji already had a baseline 8-A route through Awakened Yuko and old Public Safety suit scaling, so keeping Post-Training Denji in the same 100 ton range made the keys feel too compressed. We then decided to use Nighttime Santa as the bridge, since Post-Training Denji takes comparable damage from her nighttime form as he does from her daytime form.

The fire also did not instantly make Santa massively weaker. Her regeneration was still functioning normally at first and only started slowing down over time, so the Santa Denji fought should not be treated as some heavily nerfed version from the start.

Because of that, Denji's physicals were placed at the lower Snake Devil value around 443 tons, as a conservative backscale rather than scaling him fully to Nighttime Santa's higher value. Characters who are relative to him or scale through his chainsaws, Katana, Reze and the New Public Safety suit chain then follow from that.

See here: https://vsbattles.com/threads/chainsaw-man-address-me.189605/
Click to expand...
Why does Santa scale to the Snake Demon?
 
Kooliooooo said:
that’s my question too, yeah. maybe it’s just the fact that there’s literally primal fear flesh in ‘em and seemingly these powers are integral for at least gaining the confidence to approach makima
Click to expand...
It's not like Makima had exceptional durability... Did Santa know Makima's true nature? Because being at Guanxi level isn't enough to defeat her.
 
NikHelton said:
Why does Santa scale to the Snake Demon?
Click to expand...
Kooliooooo said:
that’s my question too, yeah. maybe it’s just the fact that there’s literally primal fear flesh in ‘em and seemingly these powers are integral for at least gaining the confidence to approach makima
Click to expand...
I had to do some double checking and I actually made an error in the OP of that thread, but non the less we're good now.

She scales to that value by snatching and breaking Transformed Quanxi's arrows which could pierce through weakened Pochita, thats all.

For reference (In AP): Transformed Quanxi ~ Weakened Pochita ~< Santa Claus ~ Makima (upscales from the Snake Devil physically)

Edit: I really need to work on the verse notes section.
 
Last edited:
NikHelton said:
It's not like Makima had exceptional durability... Did Santa know Makima's true nature? Because being at Guanxi level isn't enough to defeat her.
Click to expand...
she’s superior to virtually all mid tiers to begin with.
darkness devil knows a whole lot, and makima being the control devil (i think) is a generally known fact among government big dogs. darkness devil already had a bit of a spar with makima, so there’s that as well
 
GunshyFever said:
Koolio is like the good version of @Aaaaa11112222, because he actually helps me remember to fix justifications for the verse.
Click to expand...
don’t flatter me
nuqwbkz2qexd1.png
 
GunshyFever said:
Koolio is like the good version of @Aaaaa11112222, because he actually helps me remember to fix justifications for the verse.
Click to expand...
btw idk if it’s just weird chain scaling but i’m pretty sure a bunch of profiles have mixed up statistic values even though a lot of the scaling is similar i.e. through public safety uniforms
idk which off the e top of my head but i can look
 
Kooliooooo said:
btw idk if it’s just weird chain scaling but i’m pretty sure a bunch of profiles have mixed up statistic values even though a lot of the scaling is similar i.e. through public safety uniforms
idk which off the e top of my head but i can look
Click to expand...
No worries, I know exactly what your talking about, those will be fixed in an upcoming CRT in due time, after I tie a few other loose ends.
 
GunshyFever said:
I had to do some double checking and I actually made an error in the OP of that thread, but non the less we're good now.

She scales to that value by snatching and breaking Transformed Quanxi's arrows which could pierce through weakened Pochita, thats all.

For reference (In AP): Transformed Quanxi ~ Weakened Pochita ~< Santa Claus ~ Makima (upscales from the Snake Devil physically)

Edit: I really need to work on the verse notes section.
Click to expand...
Please don't take this as nitpicking. Why is Makima physically superior to the Snake Demon? We know from the Aging Demon that their physical strength doesn't always correlate with their AP. We all know that Makima is dangerous because of her contracts and hax, not her physical strength.

By the way, Gunshy, why isn't Makima's telekinesis a 7-B? She's capable of dealing serious damage to Darkness Devil.
 
GunshyFever said:
I had to do some double checking and I actually made an error in the OP of that thread, but non the less we're good now.

She scales to that value by snatching and breaking Transformed Quanxi's arrows which could pierce through weakened Pochita, thats all.

For reference (In AP): Transformed Quanxi ~ Weakened Pochita ~< Santa Claus ~ Makima (upscales from the Snake Devil physically)

Edit: I really need to work on the verse notes section.
Click to expand...
Was the 8C Fox Devil KE that I mentioned the other day something needing just a note, or rescaling to his 8C feat over the 9A feat that some characters scale to?
 
NikHelton said:
We know from the Aging Demon that their physical strength doesn't always correlate with their AP. We all know that Makima is dangerous because of her contracts and hax, not her physical strength.
Click to expand...
Well my friend, that is why you take the scope of that specific fear scaling into context. There are two things Makima's fear scaling is proportionate to: her control/conquest and her physical stats.

Even if they are not always perfectly proportionate, we have seen fear empowerment affect more than just hax. Yoru is the clearest example. After being empowered by the Chainsaw Man apocalypse, her physical durability went from being chopped up by Yoshida to tanking an entire slice from him.

Her empowerment was aimed at two things: her weaponification and her physical strength/durability. Both increased at the same time.
So with Makima, her physical strength and conquest would naturally be rising far above the Snake Devil at the rate she was being feared. Governments worldwide were surrendering in fear of her, her own colleagues and a large portion of Public Safety feared her, and this was all combined with her power to control everything she considered beneath her.

The empowerment of Makima pushed the United States to summon the Gun Devil in an effort to stop her. The President himself says that fearing and strengthening Makima is nothing less than the worst possible peace in human history.

By all fear scaling routes, especially physically, Makima should logically upscale above the Snake Devil. The Snake Devil's power is not outlandish here. In fact, it is a mid-tier threat for the active time it was used. Beings like weakened Pochita and Darkness empowered Santa Claus should also logically scale above the Snake Devil through their own fear based scaling, since they are treated as being on a completely different level of physical strength and overall threat.

To make it easier on your mind, fear scaling works like this.

Makima's physical strength + abilities > The snake devils physical strength + abilities

Unless there is a specific ability that intertwines to increase AP, fear scaling works proportionatly.
 
Eden_Warlock99 said:
Feel like Makima who at her peak was still getting killed by bullets and rockets probably wasn't intended to be physically stronger than the Kaiju Devil she used to kill the Gun Devil.
Click to expand...
The Snake Devil isn't accepted to, and is not shown doing anything to the Gun Devil, apart from transporting the Punishment Devil to the Gun Devil safely. Else, the Snake Devil would be 7-C, and Makima, would not be scaling to it.

Characters like Red Chainsaw Man are shown to fight Kaijus on the daily and are displayed to be above them in durability. This is the same Chainsaw Man that Makima dwarfs in physical strength.
 
GunshyFever said:
Well my friend, that is why you take the scope of that specific fear scaling into context. There are two things Makima's fear scaling is proportionate to: her control/conquest and her physical stats.

Even if they are not always perfectly proportionate, we have seen fear empowerment affect more than just hax. Yoru is the clearest example. After being empowered by the Chainsaw Man apocalypse, her physical durability went from being chopped up by Yoshida to tanking an entire slice from him.

Her empowerment was aimed at two things: her weaponification and her physical strength/durability. Both increased at the same time.
So with Makima, her physical strength and conquest would naturally be rising far above the Snake Devil at the rate she was being feared. Governments worldwide were surrendering in fear of her, her own colleagues and a large portion of Public Safety feared her, and this was all combined with her power to control everything she considered beneath her.

The empowerment of Makima pushed the United States to summon the Gun Devil in an effort to stop her. The President himself says that fearing and strengthening Makima is nothing less than the worst possible peace in human history.

By all fear scaling routes, especially physically, Makima should logically upscale above the Snake Devil. The Snake Devil's power is not outlandish here. In fact, it is a mid-tier threat for the active time it was used. Beings like weakened Pochita and Darkness empowered Santa Claus should also logically scale above the Snake Devil through their own fear based scaling, since they are treated as being on a completely different level of physical strength and overall threat.

To make it easier on your mind, fear scaling works like this.

Makima's physical strength + abilities > The snake devils physical strength + abilities

Unless there is a specific ability that intertwines to increase AP, fear scaling works proportionatly.
Click to expand...
Oh, I see, thank you
 
GunshyFever said:
The Snake Devil isn't accepted to, and is not shown doing anything to the Gun Devil, apart from transporting the Punishment Devil to the Gun Devil safely. Else, the Snake Devil would be 7-C, and Makima, would not be scaling to it.

Characters like Red Chainsaw Man are shown to fight Kaijus on the daily and are displayed to be above them in durability. This is the same Chainsaw Man that Makima dwarfs in physical strength.
Click to expand...
He means that the fact that she was killed with rifles and an RPG shot is confusing.
 
NikHelton said:
He means that the fact that she was killed with rifles and an RPG shot is confusing.
Click to expand...
Plot induced Stupidity, Makima is shown spongey to display her immortality and regeneration from even earlier in into the story.

But when she gets into a physical fight with a guy who dropped 9 weapon hybrids, she is able to take blunt force kicks and jabs from him.

For short, she's tough when Fujimoto wants to display her strength, and spongey when Fujimoto wants to show off her contract. Same thing with Yoru.
 
Breadbear83 said:
Was the 8C Fox Devil KE that I mentioned the other day something needing just a note, or rescaling to his 8C feat over the 9A feat that some characters scale to?
Click to expand...
Aye, after I get this last exam done, I'll sort things out with you in Dms. Heads kinda spinning a bit.
 
at last this recalc got accepted, was about to make the 5th bump of it

Back at Supersonic fodders! it just increases the original calc by like 1.4x, so everyone currently scaling to the feat just gets the value of the recalc, simple CRT that i could do myself tomorrow, if theres something else about the speed ratings, could be on a more important CRT, as that refers to scaling chains
 
Yeah best not too take bullets too serious in fiction, along side fall damage as they can seemingly hurt people who can destroy buildings and such
 
Bruh said:
Is there a calc of PFB Yoru LS for jumping at Yoshida at high speed ?
Click to expand...
does it count as LS the fact she destroyed the wall she accidentally hit by jumping? i think Jumping feats are not accepted, or are stricter, she not visibly destroying the floor she was standing when she jumped, rather breaking a wall when hitting it its something for AP and Durability
 
Breadbear83 said:
at last this recalc got accepted, was about to make the 5th bump of it

Back at Supersonic fodders! it just increases the original calc by like 1.4x, so everyone currently scaling to the feat just gets the value of the recalc, simple CRT that i could do myself tomorrow, if theres something else about the speed ratings, could be on a more important CRT, as that refers to scaling chains
Click to expand...
* CSM fodders wave back at JJK mid tiers as they move back up Supersonic *
 
Breadbear83 said:
does it count as LS the fact she destroyed the wall she accidentally hit by jumping? i think Jumping feats are not accepted, or are stricter, she not visibly destroying the floor she was standing when she jumped, rather breaking a wall when hitting it its something for AP and Durability
Click to expand...
Since this one has visible destruction, i think it should be fine not like the Star and stripe feat
 
GunshyFever said:
All of these are on the profiles apart from the loneliness devil. I bought the physical copy for buddy stories a while back, iirc it's non combat applicable.

Plus we're not sure if Makima was with PS at the time.
Click to expand...
Gunshy can you lend me some scans of Buddy stories for a calc? i have the spanish version, and it says the following (near the end of the Aki and Himeno story):

´´Inmediatamente cierra la puerta y la sujeta con el pie. El enemigo parece golpear la puerta desde
el otro lado y siente un fuerte impacto en las plantas de los pies. Himeno empujó el armario a su lado
para moverlo y bloqueó el borde de la puerta.
Al momento siguiente, Aki clavó la espada que sujetaba directamente en la puerta.
Sin embargo, no hubo respuesta. Parece que ha saltado hacia atrás.
Inmediatamente después, varias puntas de flecha negras fueron directamente hacia ellos, como si
fueran clavos punzantes, y Aki giró su cuerpo para esquivarlas.´´

id translate it as:

´´immediately Aki closed the door and hold it with his foot. the enemy seems to hit the door from the other side and feels a strong impact on the soles of his feet. himeno pushed the cupboard to her side to move it and block the door edge

the next moment, Aki pierced the door with his sword, however, there was no answer, it seems The fiend jumped backwards.
immediately after, several black arrowheads flew straight to them, like sharp nails, Aki turned his body around to dodge them´´

BASICALLY: they have a long fight with the Loneliness Fiend, who shoots arrows from crossbows that at first, Aki and Himeno mistaken as real weapons, but realized they were part of his body when he summons them out of nowhere, so they should have realistic crossbow speeds of 103.1748 m/s to 140.028 m/s

its stated that first, the Fiend shoots his arrows immediately, and Aki dodges them, so it aint aim dodging (and aki cant see past the door blocking them), and as its stated that the Fiend may had jumped backwards from Aki´s sword piercing the door, he may be like 70cm from the door (and aki is holding the door), and id assume Aki moved his shoulders like 90 degrees

this should gives subsonics speeds
 
GunshyFever said:
Here's what my physical copy has
nxepHlk.png
bmre5IG.png
Click to expand...
oh, doesnt says that the fiend specifically jumped backwards, nor that he shot immediately, and says ´´aki twisted his body´´

but with how in the scene the door is blocking their view, and Aki just barely pierced the door with his sword, it wouldnt seem as aim dodge, The Crossbows of the Fiend shouold still be around 70cm from the door (katana blade length), as if even if his body is further than that, he likely extending his arm towards the door would cut distance, rather an highball of how far he is

plus the Fiend, even if you say he had bad accuracy, he should be aiming at where the Katana is, which first had Aki directly behind, and Aki still dodged them for a while, needs at least comparable speeds

Epiccheev said:
Crossbow speed low end, Machine gun speed high end???
Click to expand...
yeah that makes sense, in fact, this is just a somewhat weak Fiend, and its a direct statement of speed, cant this be used for low tiers characters calcs? some results may be too high tho, but could have some acceptable use

also this would be the 3rd feat of low tiers dodging guns, there was Long blocking bullet,s Nail Fiend dodging rifle fire, and this, could this counter argument the Guns antifeats?
 
I would usually call it a hyperbole, but then the story went out of it's way to call the arrows supernatural and near infinite in reserve, so it could very much be true.
Breadbear83 said:
oh, doesnt says that the fiend specifically jumped backwards, nor that he shot immediately, and says ´´aki twisted his body´´
Click to expand...
Aki and Himeno are stated to be constantly dodging these arrows, so whatever the calc ends up scaling to would be their combat speed.
 
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