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Chainsaw Man discussion thread
- Thread starter Rez
- Start date
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Nope. However, in terms of using a character's abilities, she can just use them through herself. Sadly for her, her combat troops (hybrids) vary a lot in terms of speed.
Reze becomes the second signature sushi dish. Le Délice Décapité: La Tête de Reze
Breadbear83
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I forgot to ask for when the speed CRT started, should the speed CRT maybe talk about a revision to 100% of gun devil travels across the earth? I made a thread with also a proposed recalc: https://vsbattles.com/threads/chain...-affects-an-ap-map-staff-votes-needed.186936/
Chainsaw Man: Speed CRT + More
Introduction This is the long awaited CSM CRT where I will be covering the verse's speed calc's and scaling while also doing some removals of other calcs whether they involve speed or not. For the beginning of this, it is important that you, the reader, understand the verse's power system, that...vsbattles.com
Where also other 4 non staff member agreed on that at least a Recalc is needed (2 of them on agreeing on my recalc but that's a separated discussions from overall Recalc being needed), for reasons like it being an old calc (April 2019, barely during katana man arc in the manga), inconsistencies on the calc or how the link that shows the map for the speed calc doesn't even work and it's missing, it being unverifiable
But as it's just a supportive travell speed feat (slower than the makimas bangs and others) that only really matters on how it affects 100% gun devil KE AP (some high tiers are still scaling from 100% gun devil ramming AP), it's kinda like the god tiers scaling to the moon spear and not gun goddess, gun goddess speed mattering more for the KE and AP
Should I keep bumping on my own thread or could talk about it in the speed CRT? I don't want to clog the thread too much, it's a much longer feat revision to explain as it's needs assumptions on a statement feat
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We should deal with that separately, so I'd say to keep bumping your thread.
Arkenis
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The fanbase is filled with headcanon asserting people, just like JJK and MHA have. They don't judge the series holistically, they base each chapter off their own imagination. Some chapters later, and we'll have people still mad or Asa will do something cool and they'll say "I apologize fujimoto I didn't know your pen was like that!"
Breadbear83
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Even if the original calc gets a recalc (the one I made or another) The feat of he travelling across the world can still easily be assumed to be Massively hypersonic (mach 100 or more) because it's he travelling across countries in eastern Asia and north America (having to cross the ocean, over 10000km to be in every of the countries mentioned) in the span of 5 to 7 minutes
With that other accepted gun devil weight calc, the KE AP it's Low 7B at bare minimum, 7B at midballls or highballs, very unlikely to be 7A (for that he would need to go at least at Mach 800, which the feat is unlikely to be that high)
Primal devil's upscale to it because of being primal fears, from fear scaling they are stronger than gun devil in every way, and darkness devil being stated to be much more powerful than gun devil (referring to 100% gun devil too)
Tho anyone that scales to Gun Goddess it's unaffected by gun devil feat, only part 2 pochita and yorus bangs scale to it (and anyone scaling from yorus bangs too)
Breadbear83
He/Him- 783
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One last thing for the CRT could be a minor key separations for fake chainsaw (and so Famine devil if her profile is made) and Part 2 PochitaChainsaw Man: Speed CRT + More
Introduction This is the long awaited CSM CRT where I will be covering the verse's speed calc's and scaling while also doing some removals of other calcs whether they involve speed or not. For the beginning of this, it is important that you, the reader, understand the verse's power system, that...
Both fake chainsawman and famine devil, as they were both eaten by lil'd and made into her pawns, as she stated herself, her pawns are weaker than the originals, just like falling devil, so the fake chainsawman who fought fami and the fami who fought fake chainsaw were stronger than after they were eaten by lil'd
Thought it's unknown at what degree they would get weaker, could be a minor decrease, but it's undeniable they got weaker, another subject being if key separation is worthy
About Part 2 Pochita, it's about he probably becoming stronger from his first to second fight against yoru (and denjiman scales to second you fight Pochita) but it's more complicated to explain, there being feats maybe showing he getting stronger, and a narrative answer being that the fear of chainsawman has kept growing from one arc to another (like yoru states that in chapter 176 in the bath that the fear of chainsawman and war have been growing equally everyday, which can be easily guessed to kept growing everyday but that statement from pseudo ChainsawMen and war becoming more common, supports it even more)
Most of the comparison comes to second Yoru fight pochita (and Denjiman) reacting better to Yorus bangs than first yoru fight pochita did, or second yoru fight pochita regenerating from many yorus attacks even before death was erased, while first fight pochita already needed blood after being hit with 2 bangs
At least if key separation it could be said in pretty much every Pochita stat as "higher than before" without first yoru fight pochita having lower tiers at second Yoru fight pochita and Denjiman
A more proper key separation name, for fami and fake chainsawman "Base|Weakened" and Pochita "Early part 2|Late part 2"
Pochita Part 2 scaling - Album on Imgur
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Anonymous_Learner
He/Him- 6,781
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huh, I kinda like itPochita Part 2 scaling - Album on Imgur
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would definately feel better if P2 Pochita [initially] was MHS+ from bang scaling instead being FTL due to him being blitzed by a Rela attack but i digress. Knowing this wiki, it probably won't be enough to justify another key so we'll just have to say Gun Goddess is unquantifiably above FTL
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I do not see the need for new keys for Fake Chainsaw Man. The feats he performs are all done as a pawn and his original self is featless apart from taking and ripping apart Famine, who is also featless.
The reason Yoru gets stronger in her Nuclear War key is because of Nuclear Weapons being re-invented, not because of the Chainsaw Man war, which boosted her to a level comparable to Pochita physically and in terms of abilities. Denji and even Pochita later on react to Bang better because they are in a far better state than how Pochita originally was in that scene. Not only did he have his stomach blasted wide open, he also had two of his arms severed from his body and was low on blood, meaning he was physically weaker and unable to reform his body back into a peak state. Remember that the more devils regenerate and repurpose the blood in their bodies, the more anemic they become, leaving them in a less refined physical state.
Edit (Example): Pochita's body in a peak state has better durability than his body after being ripped apart and expending his regeneration multiple times.
Everything is fine the way it is and the changes are unnecessary.
The Gun Goddess is not FTL, nor did it blitz Pochita. In the very scene where Yoru fires the Gun Goddess at Pochita, he turns around and notices the bullet a mere meter away from him. We know he turned around and noticed it because he was facing a completely different direction and waving a sign around requesting blood. We see him turn around and place the sign down, which is a clear acknowledgment of an incoming projectile.huh, I kinda like it
would definately feel better if P2 Pochita [initially] was MHS+ from bang scaling instead being FTL due to him being blitzed by a Rela attack but i digress. Knowing this wiki, it probably won't be enough to justify another key so we'll just have to say Gun Goddess is unquantifiably above FTL
As I discussed above, Pochita here is in a clearly weakened physical state, anemic due to low blood, fatal wounds and amputated limbs. The mere fact that he is not at peak physical condition and is still capable of reacting to the Gun Goddess is an incredibly strong supporting feat.
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Breadbear83
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I have my doubts still, like that first Yoru fight pochita got hit by 2 bangs while being In a initial fresh state (as before the bangs he only got injured by one of aging devil big hands and Yoshida forcing him to vomit the ear devil with octopus, but pochita got freed easily and ate Yoshida, Octopus and mouth devil, fromThem he would have gotten blood to regenerate and seemed to be in fine conditions while mouth devil was erased)
So Pochita, while in fresh state, one surprise bang had him very injured, then a second partially blocked bang got him a little more injured, and couldn't regenerate so he searched for blood
Second yoru fight pochita was In a similar situation but with 3 bangs that he didn't block, yet he regenerated easily without blood need, and still kept fighting for a while before needing blood (fighting for a while because there's even time skips after denji and asa talk in their world, as from one moment to another fami was giving blood to Pochita)
Denjiman did got heavily injured by 2 bangs because of those 12 bangs he tried to block and fighting locust devil earlier, that's true
Their durability gaps still would be rather small as in specific situations of being in low blood, second yoru fight pochita and Denjiman can seem at times to have similar durability to first yoru fight pochita, not a major gap (like denjiman being hit with the last 2 bangs), their regeneration seems to have increased (specially after death being erased) but little to none stats increases, so a key separation may be a lot for such minor change, maybe at least specify that on a future Denjiman key that it's separated from Part 2 Pochita key
I'd guess that denjiman seemingly "tanking" one bang from yoru at the end of chapter 222 is an outlier (it seems that he tanked it as he barely pulled his cord a quick panel before yoru pointed his finger at him, the bang created smoke on where denjiman spawned, and he didn't had any injuries, but thats inconsistent with the rest of the fight)
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RELATIVISTIC AT BEST (basically high balling)
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Nah Denji needs SPEED to beat YUJI
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and he does.
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Your assumptions are not really making any sense to me here. Being in an initial fresh state does not mean that Pochita is at peak strength. If he was, keep in mind that the fight against Yoru was the only time he was truly damaged during that arc and he did not have enough blood to regenerate. Not even pulling his ripcord was enough to help him. It was so bad that he had to politely beg for blood. It has become clear that transforming Denji's body into his own takes up a lot of blood, which explains his failure to recover once he had done so.
To be honest, I have no idea what you are referencing here. Throughout the entire Yoru vs Pochita fight, Pochita was only hit with a Gun Gauntlet projectile once. Remember that during his transformation in the big fight, he consumes an entire human, which is why he was able to regenerate and recover so many times during the second fight. Even then, that was not enough, as he needed help from Famine to recover after getting dismantled by the Chainsaw Whip too many times.
There are no outliers with Denji Man. It is obvious that his body is fully capable of tanking Yoru's Right Gun Gauntlet projectiles.
The overall point here is that Pochita himself does not need any new keys. While Denji Man will be getting his own key, that's a given.
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I need a second opinion on something. We know how Pochita's body is able to no sell projectiles from the Gun Gauntlet right? I'm wondering if the one time Pochita was actually shot during his fight with Yoru was simply a depiction of the projectile making contact rather than tearing a hole through his chest. In the very next moment we are also shown that his chest area is completely fine.
Pochita had just been fed blood by Fami and while I don't really believe he was at peak state, I am fairly sure that even recovering with a small but substantial amount of blood would be enough for him to tank attacks from Yoru's Gun Gauntlet, as shown with Denji Man.
Pochita had just been fed blood by Fami and while I don't really believe he was at peak state, I am fairly sure that even recovering with a small but substantial amount of blood would be enough for him to tank attacks from Yoru's Gun Gauntlet, as shown with Denji Man.
Machmatej
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nah that's definitely a hole going through pochita. the right image shows more stylized bangs, like little expanding explosions. the left image shows rough lines and blood being shot out. and even in the next scene afterwards there's a black mark where the hole should be. it's more likely he just regenerated.I need a second opinion on something. We know how Pochita's body is able to no sell projectiles from the Gun Gauntlet right? I'm wondering if the one time Pochita was actually shot during his fight with Yoru was simply a depiction of the projectile making contact rather than tearing a hole through his chest. In the very next moment we are also shown that his chest area is completely fine.
Pochita had just been fed blood by Fami and while I don't really believe he was at peak state, I am fairly sure that even recovering with a small but substantial amount of blood would be enough for him to tank attacks from Yoru's Gun Gauntlet, as shown with Denji Man.
Breadbear83
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The denji to Pochita transformation would made him use a lot of blood and then struggle to regenerate from yorus bangs, while in the second Yoru fight he ate the entirety of barem and got rid of that problem quickly, but so the same happened in the first yoru fight by he eating Yoshida, and even the mouth and octopus devil's, so in both fight pochita consumed enough or similar amounts of bloods before yoru dealt bangs on him
But as I don't think now that Pochita needs key separation then there's not much need to discuss this
There's 6 panels of asa and denji talking between the 2 panels of before and after the bang, from that I would argue that in a few seconds he regenerated before yoru started talking to death devilI need a second opinion on something. We know how Pochita's body is able to no sell projectiles from the Gun Gauntlet right? I'm wondering if the one time Pochita was actually shot during his fight with Yoru was simply a depiction of the projectile making contact rather than tearing a hole through his chest. In the very next moment we are also shown that his chest area is completely fine.
Pochita had just been fed blood by Fami and while I don't really believe he was at peak state, I am fairly sure that even recovering with a small but substantial amount of blood would be enough for him to tank attacks from Yoru's Gun Gauntlet, as shown with Denji Man.
However, in chapter 88, makima, while dealing bangs on Pochita, he sends 2 powerful bangs before sending him to space that can be seen to have a big white thing covering the entirety of pochita front torso, yet in the panel where he is now in space, we can see that his body looks perfectly fine, just coughing some blood without a whole hole in his whole torso
So those white things, represents at least that the bang made contact with Pochita body, which can hurt him or not, makimas bangs didnt, and yorus bang neither have, or at least did it at a lower degree, as there aren't any panels where the "hole" remained, not proving if it made a hole
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In Pochita's first transformation all the devils he consumed were swallowed whole for the sole purpose of reminding Denji of everything he had gone through later on. Even Yoshida when we see him is spat out covered in Pochita's saliva and is not cut or even dripping with a single drop of blood. This is a clear contrast to Barem who was swallowed like he was put into a blender and had blood spraying everywhere.
Ruby_R_Dracula
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Makima vs Alastor (CSM vs HH)
Looking Alastor's profile, he does seem to have actually wincons now. maybe, idk someone can correct me once I make ts match. Rules: -Speed is Equalized -Base Alastor is used -Alastor has knowledge on Makima's AP with her Abilities -Makima also is aware of Alastor's Status, and that he's...
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Maybe I missed something, but when were the troops of Special Division 5 rated with stars?
Breadbear83
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Small question about the current gun goddess calc by accertainbcplayer
The calc currently used human density for the bullet (1010kg m³) because the bullet looks like a finger
But when aging devil shattered, and then pulverized the bullet, it didn't look like a human finger, but rather behaving like an higher density material with little to no hollowness nor varying materials in it (human fingers have the flesh, blood, bones and fat) like stone, or maybe even steel as, because of being a bullet shot from a gun, could be made of of common materials of bullets like steel (7850kg m³) and still behave like it did, thought to me it really looks like it's made of stone, check in Chapter 179
Has this point been talked earlier?
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The calc currently used human density for the bullet (1010kg m³) because the bullet looks like a finger
But when aging devil shattered, and then pulverized the bullet, it didn't look like a human finger, but rather behaving like an higher density material with little to no hollowness nor varying materials in it (human fingers have the flesh, blood, bones and fat) like stone, or maybe even steel as, because of being a bullet shot from a gun, could be made of of common materials of bullets like steel (7850kg m³) and still behave like it did, thought to me it really looks like it's made of stone, check in Chapter 179
Has this point been talked earlier?
Gun Goddess Bullet is shattered and pulverized
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Breadbear83
He/Him- 783
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Making it age would also first make it shatter like that? Maybe it would pulverizate like that
Edit: also about the hollowness, fingers have varying materials in them with some hollowness inside it, isn't it too much dust for the finger?
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I will deal with that in the near future. That is an issue for a separate CRT.
Anonymous_Learner
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I need PFB Yoru to MHS+ attack speed with gun gauntlet, I genuinely can't take it anymore that it's not there
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Sadly Yorus upgrades are gonna have to wait a bit for her own CRT
Bruh
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I need PFB Yoru vs mid tier MHA, speed unequalI need PFB Yoru to MHS+ attack speed with gun gauntlet, I genuinely can't take it anymore that it's not there
Anonymous_Learner
He/Him- 6,781
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Huh? Why? PFB Yoru Downscales quanxi who's still HH+ so her combat speed remains unchanged, she gets off-screened by falling, doesn't even fight Fakesaw besides throwing bangs. The only thing she could "need" would be tank gauntlet Danmaku but that's something we can easily do later.
You got it accepted that She should just have MHS+ attack speed with Gun Gauntlet and (I think) Rela attack speed with gun goddess, she should have it on her page.
Gunshy, I can't take another day of Yoru Blantly having bang attack speed and it not being on profile.
Anonymous_Learner
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When I wanna make Yoru vs Susie but gonna have to deal with, "Well, her attack speeds not on profile so it doesn't count and shouldn't be noted in the matchup. Bring it up when she has it"
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Good point, I'll add it tomorrow
Anonymous_Learner
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Thanks goatshy.
Man, Deltarune Tommorrow? Nah, Yoru upscale tomorrow!
Man, Deltarune Tommorrow? Nah, Yoru upscale tomorrow!
Anonymous_Learner
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Maybe she'll avenge her sister and clutch a win instead of getting incon-
The battle between the biggest Frauds of today will be peak
Bruh
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Yoru boutta turn Mahoraga into a pizza cutter simply because he has General in his name which relates to warMaybe she'll avenge her sister and clutch a win instead of getting incon-
The battle between the biggest Frauds of today will be peak
Anonymous_Learner
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I'm in my Raga glazer arc thanks to Modulo paying me in full for my patient stocks, don't even play with me twin.
Screw sukuna, i'll be 100% glazing Big Raga
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