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Chainsaw Man discussion thread
- Thread starter Rez
- Start date
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Because the Death Devil is still supposed to descend in a month, and it would be weird for her to show up early with no fanfare. She could easily be a red herring. Plus, Family didn't react to her very, which you think she would if she was the Death Devil.
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The girl literally looks at the camera and says "Um! So this is sudden, but... I'm here... to save you guys!" -in 195.
She knows she's early.
Fami isn't even in the same room as her.
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Alright, I put this off for long enough-
1.) The Zombie Devil's power is inconsistent in general, as it's zombies simultaneously are weak enough to be fodder for Chapter 1 Hybrid Denji and Fiend Power, and then later hold off Graveyard Pochita and rip apart Blood Devil Power. That's not an issue of fearscaling, Zombie's just weird in general. (Maybe all of Santa's dolls suddenly acting wonky increased the world's weariness of zombies? Who knows.)
2.) Octopus and Yoshida are mysteriously tough on purpose. They're a notable exception, not an inconsistency.
3.) You can't say Spider is fodder when we never see Spider perform. Princi's only shown dealing with fodder, or getting wrecked by Darkness. In addition, it's one of the few non-Primals which can transport people between Earth and Hell, and it's one of the devils Makima uses against 20% Gun, alongside names like "Snake", "Future", and friggin' "Punishment". It's a feared name.
Similarly here, Fear Scaling is usually reflective of strength, and the times it blatantly isn't are because of either for specifically weird individuals, Pochita eating related concepts, or doping thanks to gunflesh.
Imagine if [Character A] in a story said that [Character X] was at least as strong as [Character Y], then [Character Y] actually shows up, and then [Character X] fights [Character Y] on even grounds and gets some pretty good hits in.
Yes, it's possible [Character A] was totally lying and [Character X] was actually much weaker than [Character Y], and only did as well as they did because [Character Y] had trash durability... but if that's the case, then there'd be about a million less misleading ways to get that across than what happened.
We literally see Aging turn a bullet into dust. It doesn't do that to Yoru- and instead imitates her finger gun and "Bang" twice, because she disrespected it so now Aging's disrespecting her.
2.) I'm not talking about their physicals, piercing damage go brrrr.
In addition, in another thread you mentioned how clothes are often way more durable than they should be. And that's true, but often another pattern is that structures only get damaged for emphasized moments/attacks, and then are usually fine the rest of the time characters are fighting, even though character's durabilities usually haven't changed.
We see Denji being hit all the way down a building by Santa in Ch. 67 and he shrugged it off with an "Owww.", yet when the dolls are dogpiling on him, and he's audibly in just as much if not more pain in the very same chapter, the road underneath the pile of bodies wailing on him is totally fine.
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after literal thousands of words (Not hyperbole, plugging the message I was replying to in a Word Counter got 3,162, without the stuff quoted from Gunshy) of arguments against widely-held beliefs seems less like someone's being silly, and more like they're feeling proud of being contrarian. And it's so easy to become annoyed while typing the response to said thousands of words when that's what it feels like.
In addition, and not to blame society for my actions, but I think you're the first person who's told me that the way I replied wasn't okay. I'm not yelling a lot at you specifically, it can happen once I'm in a hot argument, and you just happened to bring a lot of those in a small amount of time. See this utter gem of a response from this thread to @GunshyFever-
In all seriousness, there's a pretty big difference between Pochita repeatedly, physically tearing apart Aging over and over again, and Makima getting one(1) magic-BS attack off on Darkness, before it evaporated her arm the next time she tried it and she had to run away. She's obviously at a huge disadvantage there.
In addition, there's a pretty big difference between two random Devil Hunters using their contract on Reze, and Makima using contracts, considering that we know Makima can chain loads of different abilities together to get something broken.
Finally, the fact that Makima did that well at all is not an inconsistency on Fear Scaling's part, so much as it is an inconsistency on the Story's part. What I mean by this, is that even if we complelely ignored Fear Scaling and Primal Hype and only looked at the special abilities of Devils like you want, we know per Makima's own statement, that "No attacks in the dark will work" against the power of Darkness.
In other words, even Makima doesn't think Makima should've been able to do anything against Darkness. Am I going through mental hoops to make Mold make sense? Absolutely. But that's not in order to justify fear-scaling, it's because there's no un-hooped logic that explains how Makima did what she did. Even if Darkness had the durability of wet toilet paper, it shouldn't have even been staggered by whatever Makima did considering how Santa was strutting around fine afger Quanxi blew part of her head off.
Makima vs. Darkness happened the way it did because Fujimoto decided getting to the world's most traumatic snowball fight and birthday party was more important than everyone dying in Hell, so it was worth fudging the details.
No one has said that.
I literally addressed all three of those cases-Anyways there are issues with that statement; 1)Barem states that CSM is becoming an object of fear on par with Aging/Sickness. Becoming being the key word here since it doesnt mean CSM is already there yet. (if theres some japanese nuance, pls let me know)Edit: I misread that, it was "become". Im tired okay2) This does not override the fact that Primals have been consistently stated to be the absolute top of all Devils. 3) Fearscaling isnt end-all be-all to me given Zombie/Octopus/Bow/Spider outliers.
1.) The Zombie Devil's power is inconsistent in general, as it's zombies simultaneously are weak enough to be fodder for Chapter 1 Hybrid Denji and Fiend Power, and then later hold off Graveyard Pochita and rip apart Blood Devil Power. That's not an issue of fearscaling, Zombie's just weird in general. (Maybe all of Santa's dolls suddenly acting wonky increased the world's weariness of zombies? Who knows.)
2.) Octopus and Yoshida are mysteriously tough on purpose. They're a notable exception, not an inconsistency.
3.) You can't say Spider is fodder when we never see Spider perform. Princi's only shown dealing with fodder, or getting wrecked by Darkness. In addition, it's one of the few non-Primals which can transport people between Earth and Hell, and it's one of the devils Makima uses against 20% Gun, alongside names like "Snake", "Future", and friggin' "Punishment". It's a feared name.
Yeah, but the thing about that analogy is that Post-Timeskip, World Government Issued-Bounties are usually reflective of strength. Yes, they can be misleading, but 99/100 times they're a safe ballpark. The times where they blatantly aren't reflective of strength are due to specific circumstances, such as the bounties of Warlords being frozen in time.
Similarly here, Fear Scaling is usually reflective of strength, and the times it blatantly isn't are because of either for specifically weird individuals, Pochita eating related concepts, or doping thanks to gunflesh.
Admittedly, "Barem was talking out his ass" is a tempting argument to make (One which I've actually done before), but it'd also be weird for Barem to lie here because like-
Imagine if [Character A] in a story said that [Character X] was at least as strong as [Character Y], then [Character Y] actually shows up, and then [Character X] fights [Character Y] on even grounds and gets some pretty good hits in.
Yes, it's possible [Character A] was totally lying and [Character X] was actually much weaker than [Character Y], and only did as well as they did because [Character Y] had trash durability... but if that's the case, then there'd be about a million less misleading ways to get that across than what happened.
Aging can't kill them while they're in Eden because it nullifies hax. By Yoshida's statement, Aging is totally capable of killing them instantly if they were outside of it though.
We literally see Aging turn a bullet into dust. It doesn't do that to Yoru- and instead imitates her finger gun and "Bang" twice, because she disrespected it so now Aging's disrespecting her.
F in Chat, happens to the best of us.
Mandela effect.jpg. This doesn't usually happen to me :/
It's not just that the attacks are powerful, but also that the moments are dramatic. I'll elaborate more below.
The Gun Goddess Bullet was much, much, much stronger than that. By like, six-and-a-half orders of magnitude.
1.) That value only applies to the dolls made from Fiends, not normal people.
2.) I'm not talking about their physicals, piercing damage go brrrr.
In addition, in another thread you mentioned how clothes are often way more durable than they should be. And that's true, but often another pattern is that structures only get damaged for emphasized moments/attacks, and then are usually fine the rest of the time characters are fighting, even though character's durabilities usually haven't changed.
We see Denji being hit all the way down a building by Santa in Ch. 67 and he shrugged it off with an "Owww.", yet when the dolls are dogpiling on him, and he's audibly in just as much if not more pain in the very same chapter, the road underneath the pile of bodies wailing on him is totally fine.
Man, I'm gonna look bipolar as heck for apologizing for my attitude to the same person twice in like a week, but for context-
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after literal thousands of words (Not hyperbole, plugging the message I was replying to in a Word Counter got 3,162, without the stuff quoted from Gunshy) of arguments against widely-held beliefs seems less like someone's being silly, and more like they're feeling proud of being contrarian. And it's so easy to become annoyed while typing the response to said thousands of words when that's what it feels like.In addition, and not to blame society for my actions, but I think you're the first person who's told me that the way I replied wasn't okay. I'm not yelling a lot at you specifically, it can happen once I'm in a hot argument, and you just happened to bring a lot of those in a small amount of time. See this utter gem of a response from this thread to @GunshyFever-
-TL;DR: I'm not singling you out specifically, it's just that I can be a dick in general if a debate goes for long enough.
BECAUSE MOLD-GOAT SOLOS THE VERSE-
In all seriousness, there's a pretty big difference between Pochita repeatedly, physically tearing apart Aging over and over again, and Makima getting one(1) magic-BS attack off on Darkness, before it evaporated her arm the next time she tried it and she had to run away. She's obviously at a huge disadvantage there.
In addition, there's a pretty big difference between two random Devil Hunters using their contract on Reze, and Makima using contracts, considering that we know Makima can chain loads of different abilities together to get something broken.
Finally, the fact that Makima did that well at all is not an inconsistency on Fear Scaling's part, so much as it is an inconsistency on the Story's part. What I mean by this, is that even if we complelely ignored Fear Scaling and Primal Hype and only looked at the special abilities of Devils like you want, we know per Makima's own statement, that "No attacks in the dark will work" against the power of Darkness.
In other words, even Makima doesn't think Makima should've been able to do anything against Darkness. Am I going through mental hoops to make Mold make sense? Absolutely. But that's not in order to justify fear-scaling, it's because there's no un-hooped logic that explains how Makima did what she did. Even if Darkness had the durability of wet toilet paper, it shouldn't have even been staggered by whatever Makima did considering how Santa was strutting around fine afger Quanxi blew part of her head off.
Makima vs. Darkness happened the way it did because Fujimoto decided getting to the world's most traumatic snowball fight and birthday party was more important than everyone dying in Hell, so it was worth fudging the details.
It's fine, although I'm prepared for somehow neither option to happen and they talk-no-jutsu or something.Thank you. I cannot argue with 4 people at the same time, this is the only way to settle the argument fairly.
Its March 17th, 2:16 PM CET. Chapter 197, the next scheduled CSM chapter, will hopefully prove one of us right, and if not, the first time Death either A) gets slashed up by a non-Primal (if its the Fire Devil, ill give her a pass) or B) Death is on-panel tanking a high-AP attack (without nullifying or weakening the attack via hax, just raw dura). High AP is subjective but i would trust both of us to be honest enough to not gaslight each other.
Im also aware both of these events don't necssarily exclude each other at which point i would say Primals have inconsistent/unscalable dura and leave it at that.
If you are fine with this wording, let me know, otherwise change it as you see fit as long as you keep the core idea. Because if we dont do this i foresee myself having weekly discussions with half the VSB Chainsaw Man community
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Aight we could keep this debate going for forever but ill just very quickly respond to the main points in a non-argumentative way so we can wrap it up
(of course you can and probably will reply to this but i wont be going any further, you'll have the last word).
I could go on for several hours lol. But i dont want to start another side quest argument, bounties aside i do majorly disagree with"Fear scaling is usually reflective of strength". To me "usually" could be substituted with [sometimes] or [sometimes, assuming Octopus Devil isn't around and no handguns are involved]. This will especially hold true if Death Devil doesn't just eye-beam Mr. Fakesaw out of existence as people here seem to expect;
Fair warning: Given that Death is the last bastion of the crumbling rhetoric that Primals consistently have top-tier durability, and i was arguing with half the server against this who were all wrong, once i am proven right, i will be insufferable for about 5 minutes, please bear with it.
PS: Since a lot of this argument has moved to narrative/plot points, i think its literally physically impossible that Fakesaw whose appearance was hidden for 85 chapters and who looks like Super Saiyan 4 Pochita will get no-diffed by anyone, even Death. That is just not happening. Like **** powerscaling for a second, Fakesaw isnt even allowed to die until Asa finds out about Yuko.
Octopus (on a restricted contract lmao) grabbed Pochita hard enough for him to vomit out the Ear Devil. As you can see, Aging is in the image and i was VERY tired + arguing with 5 people so i misremembered as Octopus grabbing Aging.Not that to you it would make any difference since you insist Pochita is Aging-Tier via fearscaling
PS: The Emoji was to signify that i am TIRED. I dont know how that's supposed to be a sign of disrespect. If you read the sentence it was used in, its very very obvious.
Mold-Goat) in this very reply. Just look at Primals, theyve been repeatedly stated as the top devils in everything and should have top dura if not be downright invincible if you add fear-scaling to the mix...
...until Fujimoto decides to have Mold and Octopus **** up some of the strongest Devils we know. Until Fakesaw plays ping-pong with Death's head because its funny.
Im not saying, nothing makes sense so throw out all powerscaling, but when enough Anti-feats accumulate then i can no longer assume every attack that makes a Primal flinch has God-tier Ap. When the blatant things we see on-screen keep happening eventually they override lore/statements/scaling by inference chain (Character A hurt Character B, and Character B tanked an Attack from Character X who is City Block, hence A is City-Block++) because im not about to deny what im reading with my own eyes because it would mess with said inference chain. Hence if Death does get ****** up by a non-Primal (and i really don't care if she falls and breaks her nose like Fami did in the Containment facility, or if half the school blows up in the attack that hurts her, she's Death) ill be annoyed if people here cling to that narrative, at that point it would be just ignoring the manga in favor of protecting the status quo. And if we see Death have supernatural defense, to where she can shrug off supernatural attacks (basically a better Yoru), with no anti-feats, it greatly strengthens the Primal Agenda and ill concede thatmaybe the Mold Devil is the goat the previous anti-feats were outliers and Primal statements/lore >>> on-screen feats. Obviously as you pointed out a number of different things could also happen but we'll deal with that then.
(of course you can and probably will reply to this but i wont be going any further, you'll have the last word).
I dont really disagree with any of this, nor do i feel it invalidates my points. You're pointing out and rationalizing the inconsistencies, and your logic is good, but you can surely understand why i don't blankly fearscale off statements like "Pochita is as feared as Aging and Sickness". Nice to see we are coming to an understanding.
Neat, you read One Piece too. And i agree that bounties are reflective, but only roughly (definitely not a safe bet 99/100 times), to give some examples of non-frozen bounties that made no sense (this went on for way too long, its not even remotely related to the argument so feel free to ignore it);
- Kid, Law and Luffy were all equally bestowed a 3 Bil beri bounty.
-Sabo who was strong enough to hold off an Admiral (valued at 3 Bill by CG) and one-shot a Yonko Commander, had a bounty of 700 Million
- Boa Hancock (1.6 billion) is feared enough that Blackbeard (3.9 billion), who had no problem fighting Law (a 3 Billion beri pirate who'd just defeated a Yonko with a higher bounty than him), still thought she could defeat him even though he brought backup.
-To give a counter example of an exceedingly high bounty, Queen has almost the same bounty as King though its widely agreed hes much weaker (Sanji also tried attacking King once while he was wearing his body-strengthening suit; it did not go well for him, then he took his suit off and still defeated Queen without it)
- Some bounties are blatantly given for non-strength reasonings; Eustass Kid's bounty at Sabaody was higher than Luffy's due to killing civilians. Nico Robin had a huge bounty as a child because she can read Poneglyphs among other reasons, Yonko crews getting a boost in bounties according to Oda himself, who also stated its very difficult to assign a monetary number to ones threat level.
-Bounties also often follow thematic schemes over actual power levels; Katakuris bounty is 1 Billion and 57 Mil because 56 is Go-Mu and Katakuri is a "better" Luffy. Choppers bounty is 5 Beri because hes cute.
-Bounties aren't guaranteed to update with the falling or rising strength of a combatant; you only need to look at Dorry and Brogy who could train and get stronger every day and keep their hilariously low 100 Mil bounties due to being retirees, or Whitebeard keeping his near-PRIME ROGER level bounty until death; despite his sickness and old body making him far, far weaker than he'd been.
-Bounties often fail to accurately access strength; i only need to point at Buggy. But a better and less-known example is Charlotte Cracker whose bounty displays not his true self, but one of his biscuits and according to Cracker the Marines think that's him, meaning he got himself a 860 Mil bounty while hiding his true abilities (Cracker is much tougher than his own creations, Luffy could defeat them in Gear 4 but Cracker almost sliced his arm off and took 10 hours to defeat.)
-Mihawk is known to be the Worlds Strongest Swordsman and has a lower bounty than Shanks, who exclusively uses a sword with no Devil fruit or Vegapunk-technology.
-Sabo who was strong enough to hold off an Admiral (valued at 3 Bill by CG) and one-shot a Yonko Commander, had a bounty of 700 Million
- Boa Hancock (1.6 billion) is feared enough that Blackbeard (3.9 billion), who had no problem fighting Law (a 3 Billion beri pirate who'd just defeated a Yonko with a higher bounty than him), still thought she could defeat him even though he brought backup.
-To give a counter example of an exceedingly high bounty, Queen has almost the same bounty as King though its widely agreed hes much weaker (Sanji also tried attacking King once while he was wearing his body-strengthening suit; it did not go well for him, then he took his suit off and still defeated Queen without it)
- Some bounties are blatantly given for non-strength reasonings; Eustass Kid's bounty at Sabaody was higher than Luffy's due to killing civilians. Nico Robin had a huge bounty as a child because she can read Poneglyphs among other reasons, Yonko crews getting a boost in bounties according to Oda himself, who also stated its very difficult to assign a monetary number to ones threat level.
-Bounties also often follow thematic schemes over actual power levels; Katakuris bounty is 1 Billion and 57 Mil because 56 is Go-Mu and Katakuri is a "better" Luffy. Choppers bounty is 5 Beri because hes cute.
-Bounties aren't guaranteed to update with the falling or rising strength of a combatant; you only need to look at Dorry and Brogy who could train and get stronger every day and keep their hilariously low 100 Mil bounties due to being retirees, or Whitebeard keeping his near-PRIME ROGER level bounty until death; despite his sickness and old body making him far, far weaker than he'd been.
-Bounties often fail to accurately access strength; i only need to point at Buggy. But a better and less-known example is Charlotte Cracker whose bounty displays not his true self, but one of his biscuits and according to Cracker the Marines think that's him, meaning he got himself a 860 Mil bounty while hiding his true abilities (Cracker is much tougher than his own creations, Luffy could defeat them in Gear 4 but Cracker almost sliced his arm off and took 10 hours to defeat.)
-Mihawk is known to be the Worlds Strongest Swordsman and has a lower bounty than Shanks, who exclusively uses a sword with no Devil fruit or Vegapunk-technology.
I could go on for several hours lol. But i dont want to start another side quest argument, bounties aside i do majorly disagree with"Fear scaling is usually reflective of strength". To me "usually" could be substituted with [sometimes] or [sometimes, assuming Octopus Devil isn't around and no handguns are involved]. This will especially hold true if Death Devil doesn't just eye-beam Mr. Fakesaw out of existence as people here seem to expect;
Fair warning: Given that Death is the last bastion of the crumbling rhetoric that Primals consistently have top-tier durability, and i was arguing with half the server against this who were all wrong, once i am proven right, i will be insufferable for about 5 minutes, please bear with it.
PS: Since a lot of this argument has moved to narrative/plot points, i think its literally physically impossible that Fakesaw whose appearance was hidden for 85 chapters and who looks like Super Saiyan 4 Pochita will get no-diffed by anyone, even Death. That is just not happening. Like **** powerscaling for a second, Fakesaw isnt even allowed to die until Asa finds out about Yuko.
Agreed.
I was very tempted to write a long paragraph explaining my Pov, but this has nothing to do with Primals. I dont wanna start another Makima debate. Just two quick things that i cant help mentioning;
1) I never said Aging was trying his absolute best. The fact he just stares at Fumiko like a dumbass instead of killing her when she betrays him is enough to prove that. 2) Aging doesn't even want them to escape. I dont think Aging wanted to kill Yoshida, or Denji, or Yoru. Yoshida he found interesting (back when they fought Pochita together), Yoru he wanted to humiliate and make her grow up, Denji he wanted to manipulate. A lot of what u and Zab said is based on disputing claims i never made. All i said is Yoshida realized how Aging's world works, thats it.
No problem, i actually remembered what i was thinking of when i said that;
Octopus (on a restricted contract lmao) grabbed Pochita hard enough for him to vomit out the Ear Devil. As you can see, Aging is in the image and i was VERY tired + arguing with 5 people so i misremembered as Octopus grabbing Aging.
I'll keep it short since its not related to our debate; ive seen worse on the internet, i don't think you're super rude or anything, but what i couldn't let slide was the fact that you accused me of being contemptuous because of an emoji and also missing plot points (which i didnt, we were not talking about plot armor/narrative until you brought it up). If someone is being an absolute idiot (like that "aaaa" guy you told me about in the CRT, i wouldn't say anything. But i was arguing 1v5 with people and still made good points. Its not the insults that bothered me [i still remember Halo lobbies my guy], its the fact that i just didnt appreciate unjustly being implied to be or portrayed as an idiot and also unjustly portrayed as contemptuous by you, that's all.
PS: The Emoji was to signify that i am TIRED. I dont know how that's supposed to be a sign of disrespect. If you read the sentence it was used in, its very very obvious.
This is also not related to our debate so ill keep it short: Via calcs yeah, i was referring to the raw destruction it did (less than 10k casualties when attacking the most densely populated city in the country). Or i could have been underplaying it for dramatic effect, don't remember. I dont dispute the results the calc gets. In fact if u recall our CRT discussion im quite convinced its underscaled, and the GG bullet traveled near instantly.
Yeah environmental destruction is rarely authentic in manga ik. And piercing damage can be crazy, if you scroll up, someone else brought that up to me before. But to me there is a limit between that and saying that stab - from a character that is fodder and whose only claim to strength is possibly scaling to a minion who scales to a piece of Darkness's flesh with unknown potency - which didnt even cause a shockwave or anything would blow away a City Block. I guess you were saying that it can damage a City Block+ dura character thus it is CB+ Ap. But i am personally very unconvinced Quanxi who has the dura of a wet paper straw in base jumps up to City Block+ because the only evidence of that is her blocking one attack from Graveyard Pochita, which i rationalize by her sheer strength, she's overpowered top tier Devils/Devil hunters before and made Yoshida look like a child; and yes i remember shes supposed to have enough dura to not blow her own limbs off but with Quanxi having human-tier dura in base and then kicking Yoru who has superhuman dura into a wall, while not even scratching her leg despite the fact it broke on a small fall, Quanxi just has vastly higher physical speed/strength than dura.
I agree with most of what you said, (i dont think there's a big difference between Pochita and Makima feats, both hurt a Primal who immediately regen'd and owned them) and i find it surprising that you can acknowledge the lack of consistency in Durability feats (both in-verse, with guns varying from fodder-tier to City Block+ tier) and especially for Primals who are supposed to have god tier dura, but you still use fear-scaling as a universal method of determining strength ("Pochita is feared as much as Aging = Pochita is in Aging-tier of strength) with all the anti-feats that you yourself brought up (
...until Fujimoto decides to have Mold and Octopus **** up some of the strongest Devils we know. Until Fakesaw plays ping-pong with Death's head because its funny.
Im not saying, nothing makes sense so throw out all powerscaling, but when enough Anti-feats accumulate then i can no longer assume every attack that makes a Primal flinch has God-tier Ap. When the blatant things we see on-screen keep happening eventually they override lore/statements/scaling by inference chain (Character A hurt Character B, and Character B tanked an Attack from Character X who is City Block, hence A is City-Block++) because im not about to deny what im reading with my own eyes because it would mess with said inference chain. Hence if Death does get ****** up by a non-Primal (and i really don't care if she falls and breaks her nose like Fami did in the Containment facility, or if half the school blows up in the attack that hurts her, she's Death) ill be annoyed if people here cling to that narrative, at that point it would be just ignoring the manga in favor of protecting the status quo. And if we see Death have supernatural defense, to where she can shrug off supernatural attacks (basically a better Yoru), with no anti-feats, it greatly strengthens the Primal Agenda and ill concede that
Nice. As stated in the beginning this will be my last reply on this topic until we have solid durability feats/anti-feats to scale Death from. Lets see who wins this bet
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It's really not, yall just overthink it.
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That's what they said when gundevil got offscreened.
No one's saying his character is over. Even Fire Devil's fodder zombies can be revived by pulling the starter on their chests. The man is based on Hero of Hell, he's immortal and can be revived in later chapters.
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I never said anything about Gun Devil; assume you mean other people than me
You said "hes just going to drop dead", as in, Death will telepathically kill him and end the fight. Even in this comment you say "can be revived in later chapters". So you assume Death will completely overwhelm Fakesaw with Fakesaw not even damaging Death in return, and the fight will be a no-diff. Which is just not happening.
Ok well, you aren't, fair enough, but i have seen enough people say that. Not on this forum, to be fair.
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I think he meant that people said the same to Gun Devil (he still got off-screened anyways).
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My favorite part of the Death Devil arc was when Death said "It's Deathing Time!" and just Death'd all over those guys-
Still preferrable to Fujimoto making Fakesaw pointless.
Fair warning: Given that Death is the last bastion of the crumbling rhetoric that Primals consistently have top-tier durability, and i was arguing with half the server against this who were all wrong, once i am proven right, i will be insufferable for about 5 minutes, please bear with it.
Re-reading early Part 2 has made me
It's absolutely absurd how Yoshida has:No problem, i actually remembered what i was thinking of when i said that;
Octopus (on a restricted contract lmao) grabbed Pochita hard enough for him to vomit out the Ear Devil. As you can see, Aging is in the image and i was VERY tired + arguing with 5 people so i misremembered as Octopus grabbing Aging.Not that to you it would make any difference since you insist Pochita is Aging-Tier via fearscaling
- Made Kishibe call himself "Fourth Rate" in comparison to Yoshida being Third Rate
- Drawn blood from Quanxi, despite how Quanxi is capable of killing him with one direct hit per his own admission
- Gotten complimented from a f*cking Primal Fear
I'm not well versed enough in emoji-lingo to get that
means I'm tired.See, if we just accepted all showings of Quanxi's abilities, then I get why you'd think that Quanxi's physical AP is just leagues above her physical durability, but that's literally not allowed on the Wiki. Quanxi's physical AP simply can't be leagues higher than her physical durability, which leaves us with two options:
1). Scale her physical durability to her physical AP (Being able to kill Yoshida with one direct hit, knocking down Yoru who is able to take hits from Yoshida's sword with only a paper cut)
2). Scale her physical AP to her physical durability (Getting a bloody nose from Yoshida's kick, Chainsaw Man Bullets Moment)
The former creates less problems than the latter, so that's what we go with.
Yeah, because they're not anti-feats of Fear Scaling specifically, they're just inconsistencies in general.
Except we don't need to add fear-scalng for Makima vs. Darkness and Yoshida/Octopus to be weird. Just based on other statements, they're still weird.
If the same problem still exists in a system even after removing a component, then the problem wasn't with the component you removed.
Nitpick but Yoru kicked Fami in the head, twice.
I just hope one of does, because a non-answer would be the worst for future debates., or if half the school blows up in the attack that hurts her, she's Death) ill be annoyed if people here cling to that narrative, at that point it would be just ignoring the manga in favor of protecting the status quo. And if we see Death have supernatural defense, to where she can shrug off supernatural attacks (basically a better Yoru), with no anti-feats, it greatly strengthens the Primal Agenda and ill concede thatmaybe the Mold Devil is the goatthe previous anti-feats were outliers and Primal statements/lore >>> on-screen feats. Obviously as you pointed out a number of different things could also happen but we'll deal with that then.
Nice. As stated in the beginning this will be my last reply on this topic until we have solid durability feats/anti-feats to scale Death from. Lets see who wins this bet
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Well, those people aside, I never had any doubt Makima would win. Before the fight started, the US president said something like (paraphrasing), that Makima is pretty much an inevitable apocalyptical disaster in human form and sending the Gun Devil forth was completely pointless and he's just doing it for Pride and because he can't just lay down and give up. But i believe his claim, because i have no idea what people said back then myself. I wasn't even interacting with any CSM forum at the time, i was barely invested in Part 1 compared to Part 2 (on a week-to-week basis Part 1 was the most confusing reading experience you could imagine).
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Aight i wont argue/debate any of our points but we can have a fun story discussion (yes im scarred from that 1v5 jumping)
If once Asa finds out about Yuko she will just completely snap.
is what i meant. So yes it is already weird but with fear scaling it becomes worse. By fearscaling i feel like Death should have killed half of Japan just with her entrance given what destruction and wars Starved Falling caused. Which reminds me of something:
That debate died down already, im just showing you this for completion's sake; wars did break out. Im not sure why i didn't link this page back then.
I forgot to mention the possibility that Death could win fights so quickly no-one ever even gets an attack off to vibe check her durability 
Seriously though i bought every FakeSaw stock on the market, i don't think he will job like the Gun Devil, in fact it wouldn't even surprise me if the true final boss of Part 2 was FakeSaw (similar to how Gun Devil was built up throughout all of Part 1 just to job to Makima who took his place as the immovable end-game villain).
I think adopting Yuko's mindset is the only thing that lets Asa keep going. She has a radical sense of justice (would not cross the red light even at midnight with no cars anywhere, felt guilty about ruining an aquarium that she was trapped in by a devil, risked her life to save her bullies and to save Yuko and to save her cat. And has had to deal with Yoru killing people in her body (and worse) since she met her. But no matter what Yoru does, Asa knows her own heart is still in the right place. But Yoru said (and we saw) that Asa is at her limit.
I mean, he hasn't exactly explained his motivations or anything but he's been a big part of most story arcs. I don't really mind not knowing anything about Yoshida until the time is right. For now i just think of him as the New Gen Kishibe, a extremely strong Devil hunter who is on the side of humanity.
Well, i believe any emoji can reference anything, it all depends on the context. in this case i was making a reference to panting, something we do when we're tired.I'm not well versed enough in emoji-lingo to get that
Understandable that the wiki operates like this as it needs universally applicable scaling methods, but my own interpretations of the story aren't restricted by those rules; Quanxi's reasoning for CB+ on the wiki is blocking a devil attack, but she also blocked devil attacks in base (with her arms, not hax abilities) despite chapter 147-148 having her show human level durability. Could add more arguments but this is getting close to debate territory so ill stop xd (plus it has nothing to do with Primals)
Top Dura by statements/lore, but Invincible by fearscaling
is what i meant. So yes it is already weird but with fear scaling it becomes worse. By fearscaling i feel like Death should have killed half of Japan just with her entrance given what destruction and wars Starved Falling caused. Which reminds me of something:
That debate died down already, im just showing you this for completion's sake; wars did break out. Im not sure why i didn't link this page back then.
true xd (whats crazy is that Fami has shown she can teleport, what happened to that ability xd)
Seriously though i bought every FakeSaw stock on the market, i don't think he will job like the Gun Devil, in fact it wouldn't even surprise me if the true final boss of Part 2 was FakeSaw (similar to how Gun Devil was built up throughout all of Part 1 just to job to Makima who took his place as the immovable end-game villain).
Im either going to look like a psychic or a clown depending on how Death vs FakeSaw goes, no inbetween.After Death jobs to Gigachad Fakesaw:
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Asa still doesn't know that "Justice" is actually Fire, who works for Fami, whose cult she was the poster girl of for several months. Imagine if that gets dropped.
Also he literally looks like young Kishibe.
Ooooooooh.
Invincible by statements/lore too-
Makima: "No attacks will work in the dark."
Also Makima: [attacks it in the dark]
I think the mass destruction by existing was a Falling-exclusive thing, given how Darkness just made the sky go dark, while Aging didn't do anything at all.
Either that or Falling was specifically causing mass destruction on purpose because Fami needed war stronger.
Well dang, totally missed this bit. I blame Haruka for being irrelevant.
That debate died down already, im just showing you this for completion's sake; wars did break out. Im not sure why i didn't link this page back then.
She lives to savor things, and apparently things include concussions.
Eh, if anyone was gonna be the twist villain, I'd bet on either Yoru or Fumiko. Fumiko showed up in a Movie Theater chapter- that's Fujimoto for "important."
I forgot to mention the possibility that Death could win fights so quickly no-one ever even gets an attack off to vibe check her durability
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Do you still have that hypersonic calc for Reze? I figured that since we're wrapping up with AP, we should try to get some of these speed calcs evaluated ahead of time.
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Not the High Hypersonic one, as it occured to me that the premise didn't make any sense for that one, but I still got Rap God Reze.
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Reze film releasing September 19!
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Speak of the (Bomb) Devil!
International Assassins - Control Devil in 2026 is likely then.
...Holy crud I might graduate college before all of Part 1's animated.
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made some quick HD renders from the new photos:
...except for angel cus those wings look like a pain and i'm lazy
...except for angel cus those wings look like a pain and i'm lazy
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I'm a Type-Moon fan; you get used to it.
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"I'm lazy" has the same energy as when artists say they're posting a sketch before dropping the Mona Lisa.made some quick HD renders from the new photos:
...except for angel cus those wings look like a pain and i'm lazy
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I think they'll probably wait to see how well the movie does. Hence the time schedules.
Retire*
Makima looks completely 1:1 with the manga. And they made Denji do his volume 11 pose. I think we should consider using some of these instead of our current ones. Thanks.
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Same here. It was incredibly appealing and realistic, perhaps too realistic, to the point that a lot of CGI had to be used. This didn't sit well with Japanese fans, which is likely why the Blu-ray sales flopped so badly. Most of the criticism was aimed at the direction, as fans wanted Fujimoto's work to more closely resemble the manga. That said, it still looks very clean. While staying true to the manga is a definite high point, we also get faster-paced action and more lively scenes.
I'd prefer the movie direction, but I will say I'll miss the S1 art style. Especially episode 4 or whenever Denji fights leech.
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Conquest vs Control
Conquest vs Control Conquest (Invincible) VS Makima (Chainsaw Man) Stand ready for my arrival, worm: Your necessary evil... is just an excuse to justify your own crimes: Context: Cecil Stedman realizes Earth is in danger once Conquest, one of the most feared Viltrumites shows up with...
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Will Fakesaw get one shot? Or will Death-chan get one shot instead? Find out on the next episode of Chainsaw man in 1 hour!
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What the hell man
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WTF LMAOOO SHE FRAUDDDDDDD
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They are made out of pure flesh, that's why. Also Death seems fraudulent in this state, need to absorb lifeforce to heal, but her immortality is indeed primal fear level. Wonder what's up with her?
Jerry59
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No one's talking about how bandage boy just literally died? Man, 2 weeks of shipping gone...
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man, i expected him to die
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Fakesaw man says she's partly responsible for destruction so she's not Death Devil. I wonder who shes calling for help?
Jerry59
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He lasts for like 18 panels that's more than enough tbh.
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