Cartoons as their own author

[The_real_cal_howard]

For the past day, this has been bugging me. When actually thought about, it makes no sense. Now, I'm not saying that all author feats are non-legit. They are clearly higher-dimensional beings to their verse, as they treat it like fiction. I.E. The Writer from DC, Annoying Dog from UT, and while slightly different, the whole story concept from Umineko. However, them being legit is why I'm questioning it. In order for cartoons to be Low 2-C with this feat, they'd have to get out of being a cartoon, and become a higher dimensional being to do said feat. And no one in their right mind would argue that Bugs Bunny is, or ever was, a 4-D being. How could that transition ever be implemented in the first place? Does he just teleport to a higher plane or some weird stuff like that? It just seems mostly like unqunatifiable hax, like Plot Manipulation. Now, people like Popeye don't fit under this category, as he defeated his author while still inside his verse. Not sure if Bugs would be downgraded, because he still has the "cutting the tape" feat. But Elmer would be affected along with Rat.

 

[Ryukama]

I'm not calling for a downgrade towards any specific character. But here is my honest opinion of the topic as a whole.

• If an "author" clearly transcends the rest of their verse and is treated as a legitamate deity, they can of course be rated as higher dimensional.

• If some random cartoon character grabs a pencil, becomes an "author" for a quick gag (something rather common for series like this) and at best shows some basic reality warping, they shouldn't be rated as 4-D or above.

There are plenty of reality warpers who can do things very similarly to what some of these "authors" do and are rated nowhere remotely close to Universal+ as they have no feats or statements of doing that with their powers.

Unless someone who became an author was explicitly stated/shown to be able to destroy their universe or become an entirely transcendant being, I think they shouldn't be treated as more than a typical reality warpter.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

The way I view it, Bugs and Elmer have the ability to leave there plane of existence and step into the "real world" thus becoming 4-D. They aren't 4-D normally, they can just become 4-Dimensional. Same thing with Rat.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Ryukama makes some good points, and given that this is an official policy thread, I will move it to the staff forum, and then highlight it.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

This is something that has been annoying me over the past months.

@Inti has made numerous profiles for gag, cartoon and comic-strip characters, and keeps ranking them at Low 2-C due to one-time instances where they became their own authors.

This is absolutely ridiculous, it is an abuse of our Tiering System, a complete misinterpretation of what is simply an unquantifiable joke, and the type of stuff that only makes our wikia seem like a joke, and be considered unreliable.

We cannot treat ANY instance where a character holds a pen and draws the other character as Low 2-C or above, that is ridiculous.

Umineko no Naku Koro Ni, DC Comics, Demon King Daimao, and numerous other stories have a Cosmology BUILT upon Author-Fiction Interactions, and they make it explict that one reality is fictional in a higher reality.

These comic-strip gag characters are not that. They are joke characters who are completely unquantifiable.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I'm off the opinion that we shouldn't even have these types of characters in here. I see no point in having profiles for Looney Tunes, Animaniacs and the like.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

I personally am fine with keeping profiles for those kind of cartoons and comic strips, but I do think Low 2-C for becoming an "author" is a bit much. I think its just plot manipulation and nothing more.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

I agree with what Ryukama has stated.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I don't think Bugs Bunny grabbing a pencil and drawing on the page is quantifiable in any way, shape or form.

 

[Sera_EX]

I agree with Ryukama and Matt. They basically said on combination what I was gonna say.

 

[Promestein]

I very much agree with Matt and Ryu.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I agree with Matt and Ryukama

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

So, when should we change said profiles?

 

[Antvasima]

Matthew can change them all to Unknown ratings with Plot Manipulation whenever he wishes. However, help with finding and listing all such pages within this thread would be appreciated.

We should probably also write an editing rule or discussion rule about these types of scenarios. Suggestions regarding the wording is also highly appreciated.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

I think Bugs Bunny's 5-B rating can stay since Planet and even Star busting is relatively common in Looney Tunes if memory serves.

I guess Popeye will just be "Likely 4-B" for now?

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose so.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Wasn't Bugs' rating also based on "cutting the film"? It's not the exact same kind of feat, but should it be considered similar to "author" feats and be deemed as unusable?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It's still a gag feat that's not supported by anything.

 

[Antvasima]

Is anybody interested in helping out by listing all such pages?

I know of Bugs Bunny, Popeye, and Rat (Pearls Before Swine) from the top of my head. I also think that we used to have an Elmer Fudd page with similar characteristics.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm not 100% sure Popeye should be downgraded, given that his feat comes from beating a debatable Low 2-C author interpretation, but definitely to the other two.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Feel free to adjust the pages according to what I mentioned earlier then.

Are there any other profiles that use this standard in the wiki?

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Why is Uncle Grandpa (character) still Low 2-C via becoming the animator? Shouldn't he get a downgrade too?

 

[Ryukama]

@Paulo I reverted him to the stats he had before the author upgrade.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Popeye also had Plot Manipulation and Mid-Godly Regen in his profile, that's quite nonsense.

 

[Antvasima]

@Matthew Okay. Feel free to remove them then.