Cane Upgrade - RWBY CRT

[SilentLyfe]

So we currently rate The Long Memory as 7-B due to it destroying Monstra. However, the whale wasn't the only thing it killed, as we see it take out the Grimm in the area as well. Which brings me to my main point, that The Long Memory destroyed the Tempests as well. Throughout the whole Volume, we see a giant storm, generated by multiple Tempests surrounding Monstra since its arrival, throughout multiple different episodes. Even right before the explosion. Yet, when Oscar uses the cane and destroys Monstra, we see in a later shot that the storm is gone.

We know for a fact that the shot takes place at most a few hours later, as in "War", Hazel speaks about how he tried to kill Salem, stating that the longest it took for her to come back was only a few hours. Since Salem was vaporized alongside Monstra, the shot shown takes place in that timeframe. However, even discarding that, this is the immediate aftermath of the explosion. Though it is hard to make out, we can see there are no dark purple clouds in the sky, showing that they were taken out alongside Monstra.

Because of this, The Long Memory should be bumped up to 7-A from this calc, which would only affect Ozpin and Oscar.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Seems alright.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

This is fine.

 

[KobsterHope07]

Hmmmm, so you scaling the Long Memory to 7-A for destroying the Tempests or the storm?

Because if it is the former, then destroying the Tempests wouldn’t results in the cane being 7-A since individually, the Tempests are 7-B according to that same 7-A calc. And even if the Long Cane did destroy them, does the Tempests scale physically to the feat, does it not scale only to their AP or is just Environment Destruction

 

[SilentLyfe]

Hmmmm, so you scaling the Long Memory to 7-A for destroying the Tempests or the storm?

Because if it is the former, then destroying the Tempests wouldn’t results in the cane being 7-A since individually, the Tempests are 7-B according to that same 7-A calc. And even if the Long Cane did destroy them, does the Tempests scale physically to the feat, does it not scale only to their AP or is just Environment Destruction

It is both, as the storm is instantly gone in the aftermath and the Tempests are no where to be seen. Also, why would it still be 7-B? Even if they are all that individually, together they are still creating a 7-A storm which the cane took out alongside them. Finally, it does scale to their physicals, as they use their electricity to create the storm as well as to attack, shown both here and in their concept art, as well as stated here.

 

[KobsterHope07]

It is both, as the storm is instantly gone in the aftermath and the Tempests are no where to be seen. Also, why would it still be 7-B? Even if they are all that individually, together they are still creating a 7-A storm which the cane took out alongside them

So the cane destroyed the Tempests, which caused the storm to vanish, correct? If so, my stance doesn’t change. It doesn’t matter if they were powering a 7-A storm together; if all the cane did was destroy the Tempests, which has the side effect of disrupting the storm, then it would scale just to the destruction of the Tempests, not the actual storm

Finally, it does scale to their physicals, as they use their electricity to create the storm as well as to attack, shown both here and in their concept art, as well as stated here.

Hmmm, alright, I concede on this for now

 

[SilentLyfe]

So the cane destroyed the Tempests, which caused the storm to vanish, correct? If so, my stance doesn’t change. It doesn’t matter if they were powering a 7-A storm together; if all the cane did was destroy the Tempests, which has the side effect of disrupting the storm, then it would scale just to the destruction of the Tempests, not the actual storm

Actually it’s unknown. That’s why I stated it was both. Because we don’t see anything after the explosion to indicate it was one way or the other. Not only that but considering that the explosion goes out in a wide fashion and not all focused or precise, and that the Tempests are spread out instead of cluttered together, its more likely that that both the Tempests and the storm were wiped out at the same time, instead of the storm being gone as a mere side effect.

Anyway thanks for giving your input, I was kinda surprised no regular member commented right away since thats usually what happens.

 

[Just_a_Random_Butler]

Seems reasonable.

 

[KobsterHope07]

Actually it’s unknown. That’s why I stated it was both. Because we don’t see anything after the explosion to indicate it was one way or the other. Not only that but considering that the explosion goes out in a wide fashion and not all focused or precise, and that the Tempests are spread out instead of cluttered together, its more likely that that both the Tempests and the storm were wiped out at the same time, instead of the storm being gone as a mere side effect.

Anyway thanks for giving your input, I was kinda surprised no regular member commented right away since thats usually what happens.

I see, if the cane dispersed the storm, I would agree with the CRT, if not, then I disagree. If it is vague. I can settled with a Possibly.

No probs. I guess they are busy with stuff like school since it should time to register for classes

 

[SilentLyfe]

No probs. I guess they are busy with stuff like school since it should time to register for classes

Good thing I’m done with that. Only have to deal with the occasional “forgot it was finals” nightmare.

 

[SilentLyfe]

Okay. With three staff agreements and permission, I'll go ahead and apply the changes.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Seems fine

 

[SilentLyfe]

Alright. The changes have been applied, so this can be closed.

 

[Crabwhale]

Maybe keep it open for a while longer just to see if anyone has anything else to see?

Mind you, I have no problem with the revision itself nor closing the thread, just saying.

 

[SilentLyfe]

Maybe keep it open for a while longer just to see if anyone has anything else to see?

Mind you, I have no problem with the revision itself nor closing the thread, just saying.

Sorry. I asked a staff if it was alright first.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Why would it be 7-A for killing multiple 7-B’s? It’s not like killing all of them at the same time = killing all of them if they were theoretically put together.

 

[Spinoirr]

Why would it be 7-A for killing multiple 7-B’s? It’s not like killing all of them at the same time = killing all of them if they were theoretically put together.

Because it dispursed a storm they made that was 7-A

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Because it dispursed a storm they made that was 7-A

Wouldn’t that just require it’s own calc? And isn’t the stipulation that killing them would stop the storm, not dispel the storm on its own?

Also why does OP bring up killing them at all then? The initial claim is that killing all of them makes it 7A which is faulty. If we want to make this blast 7-A, discussion should solely be about if the Cane dispersed the storm.

 

[SilentLyfe]

Wouldn’t that just require it’s own calc? And isn’t the stipulation that killing them would stop the storm, not dispel the storm on its own?

Also why does OP bring up killing them at all then? The initial claim is that killing all of them makes it 7A which is faulty. If we want to make this blast 7-A, discussion should solely be about if the Cane dispersed the storm.

The storm was already calc’d as 7-A shown here so there is no need to do so. As I stated earlier, it is unknown whether the explosion killed the Tempests first which removed the storm or destroyed both as we don’t see anything after the explosion to indicate it was one way or the other. However, not only that but considering that the explosion goes out in a wide fashion and not all focused or precise, and that the Tempests are spread out instead of cluttered together, its more likely that that both the Tempests and the storm were wiped out at the same time, instead of the storm being gone as a mere side effect.

As for the OP, I brought it up because they were making it, and that the way that the cane kills them basically has them remove the storm at the same time.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Do we know if it dispersed the storm via the force of the explosion, or if the storm disappeared due to the Tempests being killed?

The Tempests could be constantly maintaining the storm and when they died it vanished with them.

Also does dispersing a storm via an explosion mean you scale to the energy used to create it? I feel like that value would vary heavily depending on many factors.

It could be higher than 7-A. Maybe we should ask a calc group member?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I mean, the Long Memory explicitly utilizes the stored kinetic energy of Oz's attacks, so...

 

[TheRustyOne]

I mean, the Long Memory explicitly utilizes the stored kinetic energy of Oz's attacks, so...

...I wasn't denying that though?

 

[SilentLyfe]

Do we know if it dispersed the storm via the force of the explosion, or if the storm disappeared due to the Tempests being killed?

The Tempests could be constantly maintaining the storm and when they died it vanished with them.

Also does dispersing a storm via an explosion mean you scale to the energy used to create it? I feel like that value would vary heavily depending on many factors.

It could be higher than 7-A. Maybe we should ask a calc group member?

Again we don’t know as the cane wiped them both out at the same time.

And why wouldn’t The Long Memory scale? It’s using its own stored energy to remove the storm. However, if you want to ask a calc member if its value can change that’s fine, but I think it should be discussed in another thread since this one was already approved by four staff and applied.

 

[TheRustyOne]

And why wouldn’t The Long Memory scale?

IDK... I'm asking if it should or not.

I wasn't implying that it shouldn't scale. In fact I think the results are suppose to be higher if we're assuming it blew it away.

I've never heard of anyone scaling to a storm creation energy for blowing a storm away, I'm just curious about the answer.

I thought you knew and would answer my question. Didn't expect you to just say why wouldn't it scale.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

The storm was already calc’d as 7-A shown here so there is no need to do so. As I stated earlier, it is unknown whether the explosion killed the Tempests first which removed the storm or destroyed both as we don’t see anything after the explosion to indicate it was one way or the other. However, not only that but considering that the explosion goes out in a wide fashion and not all focused or precise, and that the Tempests are spread out instead of cluttered together, its more likely that that both the Tempests and the storm were wiped out at the same time, instead of the storm being gone as a mere side effect.

As for the OP, I brought it up because they were making it, and that the way that the cane kills them basically has them remove the storm at the same time.

Bro… the energy needed to make the storm and the energy needed to disperse it are irrelevant to each other. A timeframe for the dispersion, how far it was dispersed, things like that matter. That is not at all how feats like this operate if the claim that it dispersed the storm is true.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Again we don’t know as the cane wiped them both out at the same time.

And why wouldn’t The Long Memory scale? It’s using its own stored energy to remove the storm. However, if you want to ask a calc member if its value can change that’s fine, but I think it should be discussed in another thread since this one was already approved by four staff and applied.

So if we don’t know then the feat is unusable. Unless someone can prove that it dispersed the storm with sheer force and not because it killed the Tempests, and then calc how it dispersed the storm, I don’t see any upgrade happening, not even a “possibly” rating cause there is literally no value to put it to.

Also like Rusty said, if it did disperse that storm by itself and not because it killed the Tempests, it would be way higher than 7-A

 

[SilentLyfe]

So if we don’t know then the feat is unusable. Unless someone can prove that it dispersed the storm with sheer force and not because it killed the Tempests, and then calc how it dispersed the storm, I don’t see any upgrade happening, not even a “possibly” rating cause there is literally no value to put it to.

Also like Rusty said, if it did disperse that storm by itself and not because it killed the Tempests, it would be way higher than 7-A

Why would I need to prove it dispersed the storm with sheer force when it takes more assumption to believe that the cane killed the Tempests first which then disrupted the storm instead of at the same time? Besides, I've already given evidence above why it makes more sense that it wiped out both.

Anyway, I asked a calc member about this, but if its true that a calc needs to be made for dispersion instead of scaling then I'll try to get one made.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Why would I need to prove it dispersed the storm with sheer force when it takes more assumption to believe that the cane killed the Tempests first which then disrupted the storm instead of at the same time? Besides, I've already given evidence above why it makes more sense that it wiped out both.

Anyway, I asked a calc member about this, but if its true that a calc needs to be made for dispersion instead of scaling then I'll try to get one made.

…because it’s not shown to disperse the storm? You need to actually have a feat to say it did the feat, did it on screen disperse it?

Your OP is saying it was HOURS after the detonation that we see the storm is gone. How in the world can you say that you don’t need to prove the cane did the dispersion and not the killing of the tempests, when the only shot provided of the storm after the detonation is hours after the tempests were killed? Did the blast even reach the clouds to disperse that much of it instantly? And who’s to say the timeframe for the dispersal wasn’t an hour or so, which would make the results astronomically weaker?

Again, I would like to see the actual dispersion affecting the clouds before making the claim that killing the tempests wasn’t the catalyst for getting rid of them. Assuming it did all that rather than “it killed the tempests so it went away after a few hours” is not a far fetched assumption given the evidence.

 

[SilentLyfe]

…because it’s not shown to disperse the storm? You need to actually have a feat to say it did the feat, did it on screen disperse it?

Your OP is saying it was HOURS after the detonation that we see the storm is gone. How in the world can you say that you don’t need to prove the cane did the dispersion and not the killing of the tempests, when the only shot provided of the storm after the detonation is hours after the tempests were killed? Did the blast even reach the clouds to disperse that much of it instantly? And who’s to say the timeframe for the dispersal wasn’t an hour or so, which would make the results astronomically weaker?

Again, I would like to see the actual dispersion affecting the clouds before making the claim that killing the tempests wasn’t the catalyst for getting rid of them. Assuming it did all that rather than “it killed the tempests so it went away after a few hours” is not a far fetched assumption given the evidence.

Yes, we literally see the storm gone in the aftermath of the explosion when right before it looked like this. That hours portion was for anyone trying to say that this pic was a timeskip or that its a day later and is merely supporting evidence. But we have an immediate aftermath of the explosion showing that the storm is gone. Which is why it is a bigger assumption to believe the Tempests were wiped out first which disrupted the storm instead of at the same time.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

So if we don’t know then the feat is unusable. Unless someone can prove that it dispersed the storm with sheer force and not because it killed the Tempests, and then calc how it dispersed the storm, I don’t see any upgrade happening, not even a “possibly” rating cause there is literally no value to put it to.

Also like Rusty said, if it did disperse that storm by itself and not because it killed the Tempests, it would be way higher than 7-A

It did disperse the storm yes

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Yes, we literally see the storm gone in the aftermath of the explosion when right before it looked like this. That hours portion was for anyone trying to say that this pic was a timeskip or that its a day later and is merely supporting evidence. But we have an immediate aftermath of the explosion showing that the storm is gone. Which is why it is a bigger assumption to believe the Tempests were wiped out first which disrupted the storm instead of at the same time.

The Tempests would have died first, so it’s not a big assumption, not to mention this does not show the explosion actually affecting the storm, just a lot of light from the blast. If it actually was shown to move the storm with the energy then I would agree, but it doesn’t seem to have that level of range to clear the entire storm.

Also, something I’m seeing with that clip, there are still clouds present after the explosion that were where the storm was (0:45, 1:20-1:44) so it’s not like this attack even cleared the skies. It’s the darker clouds of the storm specifically that were destroyed, which lends that it killed the Tempests and wasn’t just so strong and far reaching it blasted the storm apart.

It did disperse the storm yes

Through, from what I’m understanding, killing the Tempests. The immediate aftermath shows clouds are still present where the storm was, which is suspicious if it cleared the entire storm with a single blast.

 

[Spinoirr]

It did disperse the storm yes

Yeah even if the storm generating grimm died, the storm would still be there because a storm doesn't vanish just because whatever made it is gone

 

[SilentLyfe]

I got work soon so I’ll reply tomorrow.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Yeah even if the storm generating grimm died, the storm would still be there because a storm doesn't vanish just because whatever made it is gone

If the Tempests are creating and maintaining the storm, then why would it stay if the source is gone?

 

[SilentLyfe]

Sorry for the long wait, I had a tiring shift so I feel asleep right away after coming home. Anyways....

The Tempests would have died first, so it’s not a big assumption, not to mention this does not show the explosion actually affecting the storm, just a lot of light from the blast. If it actually was shown to move the storm with the energy then I would agree, but it doesn’t seem to have that level of range to clear the entire storm.

Also, something I’m seeing with that clip, there are still clouds present after the explosion that were where the storm was (0:45, 1:20-1:44) so it’s not like this attack even cleared the skies. It’s the darker clouds of the storm specifically that were destroyed, which lends that it killed the Tempests and wasn’t just so strong and far reaching it blasted the storm apart.

Through, from what I’m understanding, killing the Tempests. The immediate aftermath shows clouds are still present where the storm was, which is suspicious if it cleared the entire storm with a single blast.

It is a bigger assumption, as to believe that the Tempest died first would imply the explosion was focused, when we see it coming out in a omnidirectional wave. Not only that, but in that same clip we see the clouds at the top right of the screen being pushed away.

Also, what are you talking about, at 0:45 the dark ash is from Monstra decaying. We see behind it around the academy that the sky has no dark clouds. 1:20-1:44 is the only part where you can make an argument for it, but considering it was surrounding the entire city just before makes it more concrete to be the same ash from Monstra instead of clouds.

At this point, its clear that neither you or I are going to change each others minds no matter what arguments we provide. You think the cane didn't disperse the storm while I do. I'm willing to concede on making a calc for the feat instead of scaling it if that's truly the case. However, I am not willing with the rest. And considering that four staff members looked at the OP and gave their approval that it did so it should suffice.