Can Someone Explain To Me The Logic Behind Calc Stacking?

[BarryAllen2.0]

People keep citing Calc Stacking on my thread and closing it, but to me, Calc stacking makes no freaking sense.

If A Character in Base with x speed can react to a Character with xx speed that is the same as their top speed, how is it calc stacking?

Thread in question is my most recent Naruto thread about reaction speed. Momoshiki's speed is equivalent to Naruto and Sasuke's top calced speed which is Mach 3277. So for argument's sake if Naruto in Base is Mach 400 and he consistently reacts to characters that are Mach 3277 (8.19x faster) How is it not valid that in his own form that is also mach 3277 he wouldn't be able to react to a character that is 8.19x faster than he is? Its logic, not calc stacking, and even if it was, how is it invalid?

That's like saying someone's speed who can dodge a Lambo by 5 ft when its going top speed 4inches from them is automatically invalid because we know how fast the lambo is.....that makes no damn sense, so please, Can someone explain to me how my thread is invalid just because Momoshiki is as fast as RSM Naruto and Rinnegan sasuke on account of calc stacking?

 

[DerpCity]

From the Calc Stacking page:

The reason it is usually disregarded is because it has shown itself inconsistent many times and usually gives inflated results. Through the method any long running franchises could also scale their stats infinitely upwards without actually ever showing any feats in the range they are listed.

As it says, it can be abused and since the vast majority of fiction is inconsistent, it is unreliable. I could calculate the speed of someone blitzing the Flash compared to the highest speed he's ever gone to and use it to calculate how many times faster another character is for blitzing him, then how many times faster someone is for blitzing them, and so on, then recalc the previous calcs for one of the characters getting blitzed by someone we previously calced as slower somewhere down the line.

That isn't to say it isn't okay to calc stack in probably very specific scenarios, as the page also says that "calculations that use it should be disregarded almost always". However, I'm unaware of what these scenarios would be.

I could be wrong, as I'm unfamiliar with the topic of calcs, but that's what I got out of the page. I hope I was helpful/correct.

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

@Derpcity

Here's the thing though, other fictions shouldn't be used to judge a specific feat in another fiction and as for my scailing on the subject for my thread, its based on a consistent showing from the same character.

• Base Naruto is Massively Hypersonic (Mach 100-1000)

• RSM Naruto and some of its Derivitives are Massively Hypersonic+ (Mach 3277)

• Momoshiki in his Super form keeps pace with Sasuke and RSM Naruto who are both Mach 3277

• Base Naruto Has Reacted to both Sasuke and Super Momoshiki outside of any of his forms on 2 separate occasions.

You can't just disregarde this "consistent" feat because lol calc stacking, especially based off inconsistencies in other fictions. The only thing i'm seeing is a valid feat being disregarded for no valid reason and simply citing Calc Stacking doesn't debunk this.

 

[Reppuzan]

@BarryAllen

The reason why we don't accept calc stacking is because of the fact that they generally lead to incredibly inflated results.

Let me provide an example.

A while back, virtually everyone in Undertale was thought to be Relativistic for battling Frisk, who could fight Napstablook, a ghost who is able to close the shutters before a flash of light could reach his window.

In the past, we used this to calculate the kinetic energy of their attacks, since since many characters, such as Asgore Dreemurr, fought in close range. However, this lead to Large Island and Country level Undertale characters based off scaling on a single attack by Papyrus. This vastly goes beyond their actual showings in-game and is in hindsight quite strange in the scope of the rest of the series' attacks. So we were forced to revise both their speed and AP ratings based on Tsunderplane's bombs instead.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Interesting discussion, I have something on my mind related to this thread but I'll post it later. In the mean time, I'm just going to ask a question and see how it gets answered. Would the fault of that result be the fact it is anomalous rather than how it was calculated? @Reppuzan

 

[Ryukama]

@AMM I believe so. Most calcs I've seen get disregarded for using Calc Stacking aren't because the mathematics itself was flawed, rather the result was too inflated to be consistent with the series plus a slippery slope of indefinitely stacking calcs to extraordinary extents.

I am not quite sure however. Though that was my attempt at answering with how I believe it works.

 

[DerpCity]

@Reppuzan Actually, they're rated based on Tsunderplane ramming people at a speed faster than Vulkin's lightning.

 

[Reppuzan]

@DerpCity

Well, you get the picture.

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

@Reppuzan

Ok, but in looking at Naruto's feat, what would you consider it being this is twice now with the same character?

I mean, its not a inconsistency nor an outlier. We all know Momoshiki is ~ Naruto and Sasuke Individually in Speed/Strength/Durability, etc. And this is twice Base Naruto has reacted and defended himself against a Character that is Mach 3277+ which is much faster than his Speed in Base.

So...we can't ignore the feat and citing calc stacking is the only thing preventing it from being accepted but its valid speed upgrades. Logically this makes sense:

• Sasuke/Rsm Naruto (Mach 3277+) ~ Demon Momoshiki > Base Naruto (Massively Hypersonic mach 100-1000)

• Base Naruto can React and defend against Sasuke and Demon Momoshiki.

With No Numbers being counted or anything, logically speaking Naruto has reacted to characters who are multiple times faster than he is so how do we tackle this in which Calc Stacking isn't a factor?

 

[DerpCity]

In my original post I was simply explaining Calc Stacking and I completely missed your Naruto paragraph. Whoops.

I admit I don't watch Naruto, but wouldn't it be possible to say that base Naruto NOW has that speed? Its not unbelievable for characters to get power/speed jumps. Granted, that's a large speed jump, but its happened before in fiction, like Frisk vs Asriel. Might be an outlier, though, since 2 showings don't automatically unmake an outlier. I don't know the context of the events and there may be other reasons for rejecting it, but that's my view on the matter.

 

[Reppuzan]

@BarryAllen

I don't handle Naruto profiles, so that's not really my call.

But from what I saw of your last post, you're multiplying existing speed values based on the reasoning that base Naruto was able to fight Momoshiki. We can't work like that since you're multiplying an existing calculation value rather than calculating a new feat.

With this train of logic, you can potentially scale up a feat infinitely by saying that this character is X Times faster, but then this character is Y Times faster and so on.

This is probably a sub-par explanation, but I'm not a calc member, and you're better off asking them and consulting our Calc Stacking page to get a better idea of why it's not accepted here.

 

[DerpCity]

He's not multiplying the calculated speed at all other than to support his point, though. He's saying that Base Naruto should scale to their speed. He's only pointing out that Base Naruto is magically outpacing someone whose been calculated to be 8.19x his calculated speed.

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

@Reppuzan

All saying is this. We have Base Naruto here as Massively Hypersonic (Mach 100-1000). We have Sasuke/RSM Naruto and Momoshiki at Mach 3277.


If we say Base Naruto is Mach 1000 then he reacted and defended to a character that is 3.277x faster than he is at least and that's a fact. So logically RSM Naruto should be able to do the same which means he'd be able to react to a character who is Mach 9600+ at least, but yeah, ill do that.

 

[Reppuzan]

@DerpCity

He was also saying that Naruto should be able to fight characters who move at Mach 45,874 for fighting characters who are faster than what we have calculated for his base form, thus multiplying the existing and accepted peak Naruto speed value of Mach 3227, which is textbook calc stacking according to our page on the matter.

Again. I don't handle Naruto profiles so it's not my call.

 

[DerpCity]

I'm having a bad day with reading, apparently. Sorry.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Reppuzan.

It would also likely lead to too high contradictory inconsistency, and complete scaling chaos in the Naruto verse profiles, to boost base Naruto to much higher speed than he used to display in his special forms.

 

[BarryAllen2.0]

I'm not multiplying the already existing values. God tiers would Still be Mach 3277 but with Sub-Relitivistic reaction. I explained this better on Kkopios message wall (Not an invite for people to go posting there).

So what we can say Naruto can Fight Massively Hypersonic+ characters whilst being only Massively Hypersonic but his higher forms can't react to people vastly faster than his own? That makes no sense when proof is given with no contradictions.

Going by Kkopios calc on Deva Pains speed which Naruto Scales to at least; Being he's reacted and defended Characters that are Mach 3277: Mach 3277 / Mach 380 = 8.62

Thus Base Naruto Reacted and Defended against Characters who are at Most 8.62x faster than he is. Giving him Massively Hypersonic+ Reactions which again are backed by feats. Yet its disregarded when A faster Naruto (Mach 3277) should have the same reactions (8.62x)


This makes no sense when there are no contradictions against this. Infact, Naruto and Madara have reaction feats of fighting faster characters such as Kaguya and Gai. We have valid feats on multiple occasions now that prove Sub-Relitivistic reaction speed in Naruto Verse are at least a possiblility now if you are skeptical.

 

[Antvasima]

I will ask TheMightyRegulator for input.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Base Naruto is rated MHS+ for tagging Tenseigan Chakra mode Toneri after he gained the SO6P chakra. Obviously, his fight with Sasuke would scale as well.

You are still basing your conclusions on previously deduced calculations and applying it to your own. This is still calc stacking and would result in overexaggerated results such as Naruto being faster than the characters you're basing this off in the first place which obviously isn't the case.

The only way you can get away with somethimg like this is if in verse multipliers were specified.

 

[Antvasima]

@TMR Okay. Thank you for the input. I suppose that this topic should be closed then.

@Barry I would appreciate if you permanently drop this subject.