Can a verse have multiple tier 0?

[Haruki_Shizu]

Before we started,let me get on my knees and apologize for all past mistakes.

Now, let's get to the point!
I have some questions regarding the new tiering system, which I am happy about as we finally agreed that math is overrated and philosophy is the GOAT, however, I still have some confusion, here's the questions resulted from that confusion:

1.can a verse have multiple tier 0 at once?

2.if it can, does it exists as facets of a greater whole or separate entities coexisting?

3.if it can't, why am I still seeing one verse with multiple tier 0?

I've read the explanation page,but I'm looking for a simpler explanation

 

[Robo432343]

.if it can't, why am I still seeing one verse with multiple tier 0?

because the profiles have not been updated yet

there can only be 1 tier 0 for each verse

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

1.can a verse have multiple tier 0 at once?

2.if it can, does it exists as facets of a greater whole or separate entities coexisting?

No, only 1 character per verse can be tier 0

3.if it can't, why am I still seeing one verse with multiple tier 0?

I am pretty sure you mean Wod characters, but reminding you that there is currently a thread going on for tier 0 revisions.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

I'm guessing you're referring to either World of Darkness or the Cthulhu Mythos when you refer to the multiple Tier 0s. They'll be amended, it's a huge revision and fully implementing it will take time.

As for having multiples; no, it's not possible. To qualify for Tier 0 the being has to be a Monad; an omnipresent, omnipotent thing, less a being and more an all-encompassing force. To put it as simple as possible, the Tier 0 candidate has to pretty much be the verse. Some great examples would be God in The Divine Comedy or I AM THAT I AM in World of Darkness. Even if that supreme being has avatars or Godheads or other such derivations, those can only be high-end High 1-A at very most by virtue of their nature; they're a fraction of the verse, unlike the Monad which is the entire cosmology given wholeness and an overarching will

 

[Apotheosis69]

3.if it can't, why am I still seeing one verse with multiple tier 0?

In case you are referencing World of Darkness, its being reworked rn. Don't worry, I am workin on that with Udl and others. I AM THAT I AM will be Tier 0. The others will be High 1-A+. Once we finish IATIA.

I SUPPOSE, the only verse that can have two Tier 0 "characters/beings" are Yog-Sothoth and Azathoth, because they both are the Supreme Archetype.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

In case you are referencing World of Darkness, its being reworked rn. Don't worry, I am workin on that with Udl and others. I AM THAT I AM will be Tier 0. The others will be High 1-A+. Once we finish IATIA.

I SUPPOSE, the only verse that can have two Tier 0 "characters/beings" are Yog-Sothoth and Azathoth, because they both are the Supreme Archetype.

Pretty sure one per verse is a set-in-stone rule due to the very nature of a Monad. Yog and Aza would both be High 1-A, and the Supreme Archetype in its totality would be Tier 0

 

[Apotheosis69]

Oh I did not know that.

 

[Haruki_Shizu]

Let's say that a verse has 3 deities, the infinity, the zero and the non-binary

Infinity is the totality of all qualities

Zero is absolute absence of quality

Non-binary is both and neither Infinity and Zero

Each deity on their own is the totality of all three, the absence of one or two won't change anything, they're distinct yet united, seeing one is seeing all,each are equally true and valid

And now, here's the Mystery,the absence and unity of these three deities, not stronger or weaker, it's simply the three deities at their utmost abstraction

What do you guys think of this?

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Let's say that a verse has 3 deities, the infinity, the zero and the non-binary

Infinity is the totality of all qualities

Zero is absolute absence of quality

Non-binary is both and neither Infinity and Zero

Each deity on their own is the totality of all three, the absence of one or two won't change anything, they're distinct yet united, seeing one is seeing all,each are equally true and valid

And now, here's the Mystery,the absence and unity of these three deities, not stronger or weaker, it's simply the three deities at their utmost abstraction

What do you guys think of this?

Afaik the non-binary is a pseudo-Monad, as it possesses the non-binary qualities that a Monad must possess if I understand the concept right (iirc a Monad is all-encompassing and thus must account for and be comprised of all states), yet it is also distinct and it can be subtracted, thus isn't a true Monad. Instead, the Mystery is the true Monad as it accounts for and encompasses all the states of the numerical trinity you mentioned.

 

[Haruki_Shizu]

Afaik the non-binary is a pseudo-Monad, as it possesses the non-binary qualities that a Monad must possess if I understand the concept right (iirc a Monad is all-encompassing and thus must account for and be comprised of all states), yet it is also distinct and it can be subtracted, thus isn't a true Monad. Instead, the Mystery is the true Monad as it accounts for and encompasses all the states of the numerical trinity you mentioned.

So,even if each one of the deity is also the totality of all three at once in their own way, The Mystery is still the true tier 0 because it is superior in nature (being more abstract) than the three deities?

 

[SheevShezarrine]

So,even if each one of the deity is also the totality of all three at once in their own way, The Mystery is still the true tier 0 because it is superior in nature (being more abstract) than the three deities?

If I understand the Tier 0 qualifications and the concept of the Monad correctly, yes

 

[Haruki_Shizu]

Since tier 0 is currently undergoing revision,do you guys have any rough estimation of how it might looks like once done?

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Since tier 0 is currently undergoing revision,do you guys have any rough estimation of how it might looks like once done?

Cthulhu Mythos and WoD will still be some of the biggest dogs on the block, so honestly less might change than you'd think. Really, the bloat of Tier 0 as it currently stands is getting trimmed and justifications are being made more solid, so I'd say expect a revised Tier that looks pretty similar but a bit smaller and a good bit tidier. That's about all that (I think) I know about it regarding Tier 0. My main horse in the race is the R>F Low 1-Cs getting upgraded to baseline 1-A baybeeee

 

[Haruki_Shizu]

Cthulhu Mythos and WoD will still be some of the biggest dogs on the block, so honestly less might change than you'd think. Really, the bloat of Tier 0 as it currently stands is getting trimmed and justifications are being made more solid, so I'd say expect a revised Tier that looks pretty similar but a bit smaller and a good bit tidier. That's about all that (I think) I know about it regarding Tier 0. My main horse in the race is the R>F Low 1-Cs getting upgraded to baseline 1-A baybeeee

I personally expect the end result to be at least consisted of Supreme Archetype,I Am That I Am,the God from Twin Peaks, and The Amaranth

I wonder if Dharmakaya from journey to the west will be there too?

I also wonder whether the ones from Self-reference Engine will survive the revision?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I've read the explanation page,but I'm looking for a simpler explanation

Iemme get this as simpIe as I can, so Iets start

1.can a verse have multiple tier 0 at once?

Yes and No. It depends on what the term MuItipIe means in context. If it means A and B are different from each other in the sense that there is something that A has but B doesnt, or B has that A doesnt, then absoIuteIy no, that is an invaIid case. But if its a case where A and B are identicaI, the same in essence/nature in truth, and the difference between A and B is just an iIIusion that Non Tier 0s derived for their own convinience, then yes, both can be tier 0, as there is no reaI Both here, A and B wouId in this case be the exact same thing.

Take the HoIy Trinity from BibIe as an exampIe, their Identities, aka, their names, such as Jesus, The Father, etc., are just names understood by mortaIs, whiIe in essence, they are aII just facets of the same essence, God.

Note, Im not a BibIe expert nor a Christian, these are just things I heard on the internet, and used it to given an exampIe.

2.if it can, does it exists as facets of a greater whole

No, there can be nothing greater, bigger, more essentiaI, etc., then a Tier 0. As something being greater then it means it is in a sort of a hierarchy, which not onIy disquaIifies this facet from Tier 0, but aIso the greater whoIe.

UnIess, if the facets were not Tier 0 to begin with, and just manifested forms, 1-A, High 1-A, or High 1-A+, of the Greater whoIe, especiaIIy in the Iast case, then the greater whoIe can indeed be tier 0.

or separate entities coexisting?

Again, depends on what co-existing and separate mean here. Answer is in the same as that to question 1.

3.if it can't, why am I still seeing one verse with multiple tier 0?

Not aII characters have been revised yet. Wiki has more then 35,000 pages. Something Iike changing the tiers of aII tier 1 and tier 0 characters in accordance to the new tiering system wiII naturaIIy take time. For exampIe, Azathoth and Yog stiII have their Tier 0, and so does the UItimate Void, in the cosmoIogy expIanation page, but its simpIy the fact that they, aIong with aII the other simiIar cases, are outdated.

 

[Haruki_Shizu]

Iemme get this as simpIe as I can, so Iets start

Yes and No. It depends on what the term MuItipIe means in context. If it means A and B are different from each other in the sense that there is something that A has but B doesnt, or B has that A doesnt, then absoIuteIy no, that is an invaIid case. But if its a case where A and B are identicaI, the same in essence/nature in truth, and the difference between A and B is just an iIIusion that Non Tier 0s derived for their own convinience, then yes, both can be tier 0, as there is no reaI Both here, A and B wouId in this case be the exact same thing.

Take the HoIy Trinity from BibIe as an exampIe, their Identities, aka, their names, such as Jesus, The Father, etc., are just names understood by mortaIs, whiIe in essence, they are aII just facets of the same essence, God.

Note, Im not a BibIe expert nor a Christian, these are just things I heard on the internet, and used it to given an exampIe.

No, there can be nothing greater, bigger, more essentiaI, etc., then a Tier 0. As something being greater then it means it is in a sort of a hierarchy, which not onIy disquaIifies this facet from Tier 0, but aIso the greater whoIe.

UnIess, if the facets were not Tier 0 to begin with, and just manifested forms, 1-A, High 1-A, or High 1-A+, of the Greater whoIe, especiaIIy in the Iast case, then the greater whoIe can indeed be tier 0.

Again, depends on what co-existing and separate mean here. Answer is in the same as that to question 1.

Not aII characters have been revised yet. Wiki has more then 35,000 pages. Something Iike changing the tiers of aII tier 1 and tier 0 characters in accordance to the new tiering system wiII naturaIIy take time. For exampIe, Azathoth and Yog stiII have their Tier 0, and so does the UItimate Void, in the cosmoIogy expIanation page, but its simpIy the fact that they, aIong with aII the other simiIar cases, are outdated.

So,what do you think of the example I gave about the three deities?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

So,what do you think of the example I gave about the three deities?

I personally expect the end result to be at least consisted of Supreme Archetype,I Am That I Am,the God from Twin Peaks, and The Amaranth

Im not sure about Supreme Archetype, due to the thing between Azathoth and Yog Sothoth, but IATIA is pretty cut cIear tier 0. As for the Iatter most, Im not knowIedgeabIe about them.

I wonder if Dharmakaya from journey to the west will be there too?

Pretty sure UItima used that as an exampIe to describe a tier 0 in the tier 0 revision thread, so yes

I also wonder whether the ones from Self-reference Engine will survive the revision?

From what I know of that verse, yes