Calliope vs Zeno

[The_Wright_Way]

Both at 2-c.

Speed equalized.

Victory by any means.


vs.

The cliched small but most powerful and feared guy

 

[LordGinSama]

Isn't this a stomp taking Calis mid godly regen into account? Zeno has absolutely no way to get past that.

 

[Mister_Death]

Zeno was unfazed by his own attack, the only reason he is 2-C is because we know next to nothing about him.

Do people forget he didnt even feel his 2-C level attack or..?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

No one feels their attacks on this level. Most do it with gestures.

 

[Mister_Death]

Whether he felt it or not, I find it weird using a character who hasn't entered a single fight, and, who's only showing is erasing 12 universes on the spot.

Even if he is just a 2-C character, it's just weird seeing a non-combat, near featless character in a battle

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

That's...most tier 2s.

 

[Mister_Death]

Yes, but, we still know next to nothing about him xD.. It's this fight specifically where this is a problem.

If the other character is the same, then, we're just going off of assumptions

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Zeno still can't get past the Mid Godly regen

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Agreed. Tbh, his "ban" was removed due to double standards.

 

[Ryukama]

"His feats are super casual", "We don't know his full power" and "He's never been in a real fight" doesn't stop Saitama from being put in countless matches. Nor many other characters of similar nature. Why should it stop Zen'ō?

 

[Mister_Death]

Atleast saitama has been actually hit before.


Zamasu for example, he both was unfazed by Goku and co's attack, and, on the other end, was annhilated by Zeno, so, we now how durable he is.


How do we know how durable Zeno is, aside from statements and one showing of him not being fazed by attacks?


Statements have him erasing existence, which is vague, and could imply all existing timelines, who knows, maybe we'll never know. But, he shouldnt be in fights, doesnt feel right.

 

[Ryukama]

And Saitama has taken no damage at all when he's hit.

Yeah Zen'ō's feats are casual and we haven't seen his full power. That's nothing special at all for characters. There's no reason to not have him in a fight.

 

[Mister_Death]

put him in a fight with what feats? You can't really defend a character with not alot of feats.

Meanwhile, the other character in this thread has Mid godly regen, is much faster than characters that can cross universes, and, seems to be generally better understood than Zeno.


Meanwhile, heck, I havent even seen Zeno run before.

He is a defensless character tbh in a thread, its actually unfair, you cant say much for him.

 

[Ryukama]

You want some indicators of his power?

• He fired a 2-C attack.

• He tanked his own 2-C attack.

• He's stated numerous times to be 2-C.

• He naturally scales to people with tens of quadrillions c feats.

We don't need to have full knowledge of the exact limit of Zen'ō's power to be able to make matches for him. Or else Saitama and many other characters' whose sctick is to be super strong can't be in threads.

The only argument is the possibility of this being a stomp for Zen'ō based on what we've observed of both of them. But the fact he "doesn't have a lot of feats" is far from a valid reason.

 

[Mister_Death]

Just curious, why is Saitama being brought up all the time?


Besides, its not really much AP that is bugging me, its really durability and speed.

Besides basic durability, we don't know much about hax resistance, or much in general.

But if we're to use character statements, then, alot of fights I've seen involving Zeno should be a stomp in Zeno's favor. Destroying all of existence, cannot die no matter what? The natural thing to do in debates is to assume either the character who made such statements is stupid or overexaggerating, and say its NLF.

It could just be me, but, I have a hard time defending this character. I try bringing up character statements, and, I can assure you, NLF will follow.

Atleast have him break a sweat or something, he has no current upper limits, meanwhile, Saitama has busted out a serious attack before, where he puts in some effort, no effort on Zeno's part.

If we're going to use just the feat's Zeno has, and basic scaling.

Durability- No-selled his own attack against Zamasu, and, could survive the void leftover by the destruction of the timeline without any effort, whereas Beerus, a 3-A character, would be killed by a single universe being erased.

AP- Killed Infinite Zamasu, who spread out across the entire future timeline, and was gradually taking over the present timeline, thereby enveloping a total of two timelines, and possibly even more if given time.

Speed- (This topic will cause a storm)

Technique-N/A

Can these specs do anything against his opponent in this thread? Would 2-C AP be enough to take out mid godly regen?

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

AP and Dura scale to each other

His speed scales to being stronger than the likes of Beerus and Whis

And no, he cannot bypass Mid Godly regen

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Pure AP will never be enough to take out mid-godly regen (unless it is higher dimensional in nature)

Speed is equalised, so that doesn't matter.

So I will vote Calliope here simply via a battle of attrition.

 

[Ryukama]

"Just curious, why is Saitama being brought up all the time?"

Because literally anything you say about Zen'ō in this case can be said about Saitama.

"Oh his feats are casual", "We don't know his full power", "We haven't seen what he is capable of", "He hasn't been in a real fight."

"But if we're to use character statements, then, alot of fights I've seen involving Zeno should be a stomp in Zeno's favor. Destroying all of existence, cannot die no matter what? The natural thing to do in debates is to assume either the character who made such statements is stupid or overexaggerating, and say its NLF."

Destroy all of existence = 2-C since that's all that Dragon Ball's cosmology has shown. Cannot die no matter what is only relative to what DB has to offer. Simple.

These are not reasons to ban someone from a VS match.

"Atleast have him break a sweat or something, he has no current upper limits, meanwhile, Saitama has busted out a serious attack before, where he puts in some effort, no effort on Zeno's part."

"Serious Punch" was confirmed to be a lie right after he threw it. Saitama has still effortlessly one shot everyone up in this point. But again, "we haven't seen his full power" is not an argument.

We have feats, we have reliable statements, we have indicators of power. If Zen'ō one day shows to be drastically above what he is now, we updated him accordingly. But we go with what we have for now. Just like Saitama.

 

[Ryukama]

Also I'm sorry but Zen'ō really isn't as special as you'd like to think he is. We have dudes that performed their best feats with a mere thought, a heartbeat, a breath of air, a finger snap, a spoken word, their presence, etc.

We don't go "Can't put them in fights because they haven't shown their full limit at all." That's not how it works here.

Rosalina's only feat is a super casual Tier 2 attack she tanked. Is she now banned from matches too? Is she to also be banned?

I don't need just Saitama. There are plenty of other examples because, again, Zen'ō isn't special. And he's perfectly elligible for a VS match up.

 

[Mister_Death]

Well, how does Cali take out Zeno then? He wasnt fazed by his own attack, so, how will the other character hurt him? I don't know anything about the other fighter in this thread


EDIT: Something strange occurred to me, and, i'm not sure if it's been brought up, but, right before Zeno said" This world should not exist" and destroyed all twelve universes, did he see/know Zamasu had become part of all the universes? If so, would speed be a factor against Zeno? Just a thought, as I said, dunno about the other fighter, and speed is equalized here.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

From her page, Calliope is baseline 2-C due to destroying two universes and powering to some low 2-Cs. But that only means that Calliope needs to hit Zeno 6 - 9 times (maybe a bit more as he was completely unfazed by his own attack) to do the damage he could do with one hit, and while that seems like a major advantage to him at first, the fact that she has mid-godly regen and so he cannot permanently put her down means that she will eventually get enough hits in to kill him. Which is what I meant by "wins via battle of attrition"

 

[Mister_Death]

I read up on her page, and, if a tier 1-B is able to exist, then, I suppose Zeno can't just destroy whatever she does need to exist (For example, her own reality).

If Zeno *can* be fazed by 2-C attacks, then yes, I suppose that would be the only logical outcome, but, how long would that take? Would Zeno let that happen? If she can survive both her own destruction and the destruction of her multiverse(which seems to be part of a larger structure?), I can't really argue against that.


EDITRyu If zeno gets a loss, will it also have the " as of insert date here" next to it like Saitama does? Because, it seems to be a saitama exclusive, since his powers, like Zeno's, have shown no upper limit(I am personally against saitama wankers,and he obviously has limits, but, it seems to be general knowledge that he is much stronger than he shows)