Bow to the Perfection | Cell vs DIO

[TyranoDoom30]

This is a suprisingly thematic fight: both characters are power hungry sadistic villains who play with humans as mere toys who had to go through a long sleep for a long time, with both sharing some of the same powers as the protagonists mainly due to having some part of them on their biology. Both characters are also extremely arrogant and tend to become absolutely mad when they start to lose

Problem is the obvious stat gap between the two..but an equalized fight should do the job!

Cell vs DIO.

• Stats equalized
• Super Perfect Cell vs Awakened DIO
• Location is at the Cell Games arena and at night
• DIO is aware of Cell's Powers
• Both in-character

Perfection:
DIO:
Incon:

 

[Quibster]

It looks like Cell's only recourse here is to just blow up the planet

 

[Robo432343]

timestop gg

 

[StrymULTRA]

Why y'all saying this?

DIO's only real thing is is punching really hard, and Cell's regeneration + Zenkai would allow him to eventually become too strong for DIO tbh.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Why y'all saying this?

DIO's only real thing is is punching really hard, and Cell's regeneration + Zenkai would allow him to eventually become too strong for DIO tbh.

He could freeze him or just mind control him

 

[StrymULTRA]

He could freeze him

Regen

just mind control him

is this really IC? Plus Cell's brain isn't even like human ones, why would Dio's flesh bud work?

 

[Quibster]

I forget, is Ki in DB able to interact with the incorporeal like TW?

 

[StrymULTRA]

I forget, is Ki in DB able to interact with the incorporeal like TW?

Rn no, no layers.

 

[Chariot190]

Why y'all saying this?

DIO's only real thing is is punching really hard, and Cell's regeneration + Zenkai would allow him to eventually become too strong for DIO tbh.

Flesh Buds. Hypnosis. Flash Freezing. Turning him into a zombie. Draining his life energy. Etc.

Dio has numerous ways to just skip fighting at all in stat equal. Like what's Cell gonna do when Dio stops time and implants spores into him making him his slave? Or just looking at him funny for hypnosis? And then zombie is just free game, Cell has nothing against that.
Freezing is incap as long as Dio doesnt shatter him, which he wouldn't given he has prior knowledge for some reason. And zenkai isnt even that useful in stat equal against Dio because he can just stop time, drink some of Cell's blood, and would buff himself in turn, as we know now, when a vampire drinks blood they use the life energy contained in the body to empower themselves, it's how Dio got stronger through Part 1 and why HIGH Dio become stronger than Part 1, the greater Cell's buff, the greater Dio's based on the mechanics of how Cell's buff even works, essentially nothing changes. Given recent scans, specifying that Hamon is ki, and as we know Hamon is just the life energy that Dio drains but at a specific wavelength, this literally means when Dio drinks blood to get life energy to amp himself, he's drinking a mf's ki. Cell getting a zenkai is just a free boost for Dio in turn.

Hell if Dio knows what Cell has, he'd instantly go into mind hax options as Cell would be to valuable an asset to lose, or if he has to kill him, he'd just tell Cell to go IT into a black hole or some shit via hypnosis, zombie extract or buds. Given Cell is an evil bug man though, Dio would almost certainly want him for his own use, in which, mindhax or rizz is likely gonna come out first. Let's not forget even minor stuff like Dio having actual fear aura that spooks the shit out of dudes with supwill and in some cases causes them to freeze up.

Cell's only advantage is range and his regen, but that's not stopping Dio in stat equal.

It looks like Cell's only recourse here is to just blow up the planet

Wouldnt even work, if Dio is equal to Cell in stats, Dio can tank a planet bust just as he can, not like Dio needs to breathe.

Though given this is stats equal, that already tells us this shouldn't have been made, Cell obviously one shots his ass a sextillion times over usually, Dio's only real winconditions would be mind hax and knowing to do that before Cell gets fed up, in character he'd likely have a chance like we see with Mr. Satan and how Cell could sense Dio's power and be like "oh he isn't a threat" and sandbag for a few seconds for the **** of it, the problem lies entirely on Dio deciding he wants the bug man to be his slave, which while not unlikely, is still a hard maybe as a lead, Dio just gets one shot more often than not if he goes in blind which is unfortunate given he has the tools to incap Cell like fear hax or timestop into mindhax if he had prior knowledge.

 

[Chariot190]

is this really IC? Plus Cell's brain isn't even like human ones, why would Dio's flesh bud work?

Why wouldnt it work? In fact I dont think thats even true. They dont really explain how his brain works but it's obviously close enough to a human's given his sentience, behavior and cognition that without extra details, we have no reason to assume otherwise. Especially as his body is built off multiple humanoid's biology, like Sayains. Assuming his brain structure is just so widely different that he lacks the same structures is a tad much.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Rn no, no layers.

I don't see any layers for JoJo stands in the HLET or generally anywhere

 

[Chariot190]

I don't see any layers for JoJo stands in the HLET or generally anywhere

We have a Stand page.
Which definitely needs an overhaul and scans and stuff added, but it does say theyre layered there even if its halfassed, it is accepted.

Hell you could argue Stands have 3 layers with some newer info even but eh, thats definitely not mentioned on wiki.

 

[DavidTPPM]

We have a Stand page.

I don’t see layers listed on it

Which definitely needs an overhaul and scans and stuff added, but it does say theyre layered there even if its halfassed, it is accepted.

When was it made? Because iirc if it was after the Hax layers thread then it needs to be re-evaluated

 

[StrymULTRA]

Hell you could argue Stands have 3 layers

 

[Chariot190]

I don’t see layers listed on it

I really dont think you looked dude
"Note: In order to see, touch or sense Stands, the character in question would need some form of enhanced Extrasensory Perception and enhanced Non-Physical Interaction, something above what ghosts can see, sense or touch. This is because not even ghosts or spirts can see or touch Stands, as seen with Reimi Sugimoto's interactions with Heaven's Door. Another instance where this happened, was when Mikitaka could not see Crazy Diamond, but was able to see and interact with Reimi Sugimoto."

For reference, Reimi is a noncorporal revenant who cant be seen by the non spiritually inclined. Theres way more stuff, as said page kind of mid but, well it's listed all the same.

When was it made? Because iirc if it was after the Hax layers thread then it needs to be re-evaluated

no it doesnt? That isnt even an official thread last i checked, it's just yapping for fun. It has no bearing on if it gets accepted or not.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Toei Cell might make it more fair, with his resistance to mind hax and the sheer variety of his abilities.

 

[DavidTPPM]

I really dont think you looked dude
"Note: In order to see, touch or sense Stands, the character in question would need some form of enhanced Extrasensory Perception and enhanced Non-Physical Interaction, something above what ghosts can see, sense or touch. This is because not even ghosts or spirts can see or touch Stands, as seen with Reimi Sugimoto's interactions with Heaven's Door. Another instance where this happened, was when Mikitaka could not see Crazy Diamond, but was able to see and interact with Reimi Sugimoto."

Oh yeah. "enhanced" usually doesn't mean a layer so I didn't pay attention to it.

no it doesnt? That isnt even an official thread last i checked, it's just yapping for fun. It has no bearing on if it gets accepted or not.

As far as I'm aware the rules regarding layers changes when it was uploaded hence why official approval from a staff member in that thread.

 

[Chariot190]

As far as I'm aware the rules regarding layers changes when it was uploaded hence why official approval from a staff member in that thread

The OP to that very thread says it's just for fun. Staff utilizing it, doesnt mean it cant be accepted elsewhere? It's a convenience thing, not a rule. It just started as Fuji doing a funny.

 

[DavidTPPM]

The OP to that very thread says it's just for fun.

It doesn't?

Staff utilizing it, doesnt mean it cant be accepted elsewhere? It's a convenience thing, not a rule. It just started as Fuji doing a funny.

What? It was even suggested to become a staff thread, I'm pretty sure it's official lmao

 

[StrymULTRA]

It doesn't?

Fun and Games

 

[DavidTPPM]

Fun and Games

He meant the hax layer thread (which is in the content evaluation section) not this thread

 

[Chariot190]

He meant the hax layer thread (which is in the content evaluation section) not this thread

Yeah that's still F&G dude, just because it was shifted for convenience doesnt make it some rule.

Nobody has to abide by that if they get it accepted elsewhere. If I go make a CRT making Stands 3 layers, I dont have to touch that thread, ever.

Not that it matters because last I checked Stands listed there anyway, now stop wasting time.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Toei Cell might make it more fair, with his resistance to mind hax and the sheer variety of his abilities

Changed to Toei Cell to make it closer

 

[Chariot190]

How does Toei Cell get by flesh buds, zombie extract, and so on.

Having minor mind hax res doesnt mean much when Dio has three methods to inflict all with different mechanics. Cell only resists one. Plus TW has actual fear hax that's stated to exceed any other Stand in 6251 and works on those with supwill.

Note, Dio can get anything he wants off free, he has time stop that gets longer with each use.

If Dio has even one win condition, he wins because he'd always get it off due to time stop.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

I don't think the mechanics are too important, they're all mind manip.
Cell can also make all the touch-based abilities useless with a Ki Barrier.

Toei Cell is also capable of making 4 perfect clones of himself, so there's that too.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Wouldnt even work, if Dio is equal to Cell in stats, Dio can tank a planet bust just as he can, not like Dio needs to breathe.

Can Dio even fight in space? Like yeah, he won't die, but can even do anything when he don't have the nescessary resistances to whisthand being in space? Can he fly in space too? Also, If Cell destroy the planet, the Sun gonna appear.

Trought, I don't think Cell gonna blow up the planet anyway, atleast not that early, before Dio time stop.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

I also don't see Dio starting with hax anyway, he can harm Cell just fine here.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

I don't think the mechanics are too important, they're all mind manip.

iirc Cell only resists average Mind Manip, while DIO can just still mind control him via Flesh Bud since Cell lacks a resistance to Bio Mind Manip

 

[Fezzih_007]

I also don't see Dio starting with hax anyway, he can harm Cell just fine here.

Din't you give him knowlegement of Cell powers? I really don't think Dio not gonna use his hax, when he knows punching Cell is a usefull as using electricity against Killua.

 

[Chariot190]

Can Dio even fight in space? Like yeah, he won't die, but can even do anything when he don't have the nescessary resistances to whisthand being in space? Can he fly in space too?

Trought, I don't think Cell gonna blow up the planet anyway, atleast not that early, before Dio time stop.

He has a Stand, he can just use TW to direct himself. Itd be cumbersome and unconventional but itd like, function, barely.

I also don't see Dio starting with hax anyway, he can harm Cell just fine here.

He'd lead with hax because he usually does? Dio doesnt start a fight by fighting, he has goals, he usually tries to make people his allies first. We're not only shown that but told as much.

I don't think the mechanics are too important, they're all mind manip.

Yeah no, mechanics matter. Biological, psychic, etc, all function and work based on different things. They affect the mind through different methods.

Cell can also make all the touch-based abilities useless with a Ki Barrier.

TW can phase, and Dio can just smash it for free in time stop, it's stat equal, a forcefield isnt surviving ten billion blows by someone equal to Cell.

Toei Cell is also capable of making 4 perfect clones of himself, so there's that too.

All weaker than the original, at 1/4th strength.
Also time stop.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Cell could Win If he blow up the planet, because the Sun gonna be showing now, but he probally not gonna do It.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

iirc Cell only resists average Mind Manip, while DIO can just still mind control him via Flesh Bud since Cell lacks a resistance to Bio Mind Manip

Flesh Buds sort of need to reach Cell's brain, his regen shouldn't allow them to. And even then, I'd think a barrier would work.

TW can phase, and Dio can just smash it for free in time stop, it's stat equal, a forcefield isnt surviving ten billion blows by someone equal to Cell.

Android 17's barrier (Which is where Cell gets it from) let him no-sell attacks from those comparable to him, so I don't think that's too much of an issue.

All weaker than the original, at 1/4th strength.

Nope.

 

[Chariot190]

Flesh Buds sort of need to reach Cell's brain, his regen shouldn't allow them to. And even then, I'd think a barrier would work.

Dude, time stop, Dio can do anything he wants free, if he wants to do something, he can and will and Cell has no way to stop it.
Also theyre equal in stats, Cell's regen isnt so fast he cant be stabbed, we see him take some damage all the time.

Also youre forgetting he can turn Cell into a zombie or vampire if he so much as scratches him, who then becomes loyal to him.

Android 17's barrier (Which is where Cell gets it from) let him no-sell attacks from those comparable to him, so I don't think that's too much of an issue.

Time stop. Literally billions of punches. Taking some attacks is fine but do you think it could hold up under countless attacks in a 2v1 in time stop?

Nope.

That just gives Dio more tools to work with tbh. He already has TW, so he starts off with a 2v1, but what makes these Cells free from being made a zombie, spored, or anything of the like?

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Also youre forgetting he can turn Cell into a zombie or vampire if he so much as scratches him, who then becomes loyal to him.

That's literally just what the Black Water Mist does, it's listed as Corruption on Cell's profile tho
His regenerative goo is also corrosive, so not sure if vampiric essence can really remain there.

Time stop. Literally billions of punches. Taking some attacks is fine but do you think it could hold up under countless attacks in a 2v1 in time stop?

It believe Frieza's barrier could tank a Kamehameha from a stronger Goku, so perhaps it can?
Those things can obliterate foes who previously were undamaged by basic attacks.

Cell can also just sense Dio's malicious intent and protect himself preemptively from Dio's Time Stop.
Although, I do believe he'll need knowledge on Dio's abilities to do so, kinda like Dio currently has for Cell.

 

[Chariot190]

That's literally just what the Black Water Mist does, it's listed as Corruption on Cell's profile tho

And that isnt what Dio's does? It's a mix between disease manip, bio manip and technically life manip.

Dont forget btw dio can literally drain one's ki completely to amp himself and make them undead.

His regenerative goo is also corrosive, so not sure if vampiric essence can really remain there

Why wouldnt it? He isnt a xenomorph. He just needs the extract to replace his life essence then he's done, it's done via circulation of the blood, we know Cell's blood isnt acidic, it's like purple.
Put some in him in time stop if youre really about to argue that, either way Cell's blood isnt that goo, let's not pretend otherwise.

I believe Frieza's barrier could tank a Kamehameha from a stronger Goku, so perhaps it can?

Literally billions dude. Not even billions, two MFTL+ dudes bashing at it and you think it wont let up at all? 11 seconds (longer each use mind you) from two MFTL+ dudes, one of which can just bypass the forcefield, and you dont think itd break, at all?

Those things can obliterate foes who previously were undamaged by basic attacks.

Depends on the lv of ki, that's a particularly bad example as that's early DB Goku well before he mastered ki control and amping his own body.

Actually, bad example. 17's forcefield is noted that he needs to have 2x the ki of his foe to cancel the attack completely. Cell and Dio equal here.

Cell can also just sense Dio's malicious intent and protect himself preemptively from Dio's Time Stop.

No. How? Why would he whip out a forcefield against some dude equal to himself as a lead? He doesnt know Dio can stop time, even if he sees it, he'd assume IT first, ignoring the fact that actually arguing a forcefield is holding up against trillions of blows is asinine, Dio's time stop is quicker on the draw anyway.

Although, I do believe he'll need knowledge on Dio's abilities to do so, kinda like Dio currently has for Cell.

Cell could know and it wouldnt change anything. Dio has a thought based ability that lets him do anything he wants to Cell for free without retaliation.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

And that isnt what Dio's does? It's a mix between disease manip, bio manip and technically life manip.

He turns others into loyal vampires? Black Water Mist turns others into loyal "vampires."
One just lists it as corruption and the other as bio manipulation.

Literally billions dude. Not even billions, two MFTL+ dudes bashing at it and you think it wont let up at all? 11 seconds (longer each use mind you) from two MFTL+ dudes, one of which can just bypass the forcefield, and you dont think itd break, at all?

I'm like 90% sure accumulating energy like that isn't allowed. If someone can no-sell an attack, it doesn't matter how many times you attack them.

Depends on the lv of ki, that's a particularly bad example as that's early DB Goku well before he mastered ki control and amping his own body.

Actually, bad example. 17's forcefield is noted that he needs to have 2x the ki of his foe to cancel the attack completely. Cell and Dio equal here.

If you want to use another example from a far more experienced Goku, his Kamehameha punched a hole in Fused Zamasu.
17 also needs to output twice the amount of ki of their opponent, not that they have to be twice as powerful. Piccolo and 17 were equal in that fight.

How? Why would he whip out a forcefield against some dude equal to himself as a lead? He doesnt know Dio can stop time, even if he sees it, he'd assume IT first, ignoring the fact that actually arguing a forcefield is holding up against trillions of blows is asinine, Dio's time stop is quicker on the draw anyway.

I only said he'd do so if we give him prior knowledge. Without it, he's kinda done for honestly.

I could see Cell win by blowing up, don't think Dio can do much about that, but I don't see him doing it in his Super Perfect Form.

 

[Chariot190]

He turns others into loyal vampires? Black Water Mist turns others into loyal "vampires."
One just lists it as corruption and the other as bio manipulation.

And there you go, that's why it wouldnt work. Theyre the same only in name, ignoring how vampires in jojo arent even conventional and are entirely biological, the mechanics on which it happens is completely different, unless Cell magically resists diseases and biomanip now. It'd work.

I'm like 90% sure accumulating energy like that isn't allowed. If someone can no-sell an attack, it doesn't matter how many times you attack them

Uh, no, that's literally just how things work?
Go punch a door a few times, it's gonna break dude. Im not saying it stacks but the forcefields arent infallible, thats a blatant NLF, we know they can break if they take enough damage.

And no, the forcefields only no sell when there's a 2x gap.
But even then it's gonna add up.
Even worse, TW can phase and just rips Cell's head off, in time stop no less, and in the time it takes to regen, apply the winconditions.

If you want to use another example from a far more experienced Goku, his Kamehameha punched a hole in Fused Zamasu.

Well yeah duh, now prove the kamehameha used on Freeza's had that big a gap. Im going to say it didnt given if that gap was that big, Goku could have vaporized 100% Freeza, back in saiyan saga.
You literally jumped the gun and went in the complete opposite direction.

Do i need remind you it's a variable technique? It can be equal to, or even thousands of times, case by case.

17 also needs to output twice the amount of ki of their opponent, not that they have to be twice as powerful. Piccolo and 17 were equal in that fight

Yeah, exactly, Cell would need to output twice the amount of ki as Dio's attacks, except, ya know, stats equal.

Unless we're keeping in differences between moves, in which case TW literally one shots Dio in regards to gaps, so why wouldnt TW be treated like Cell's ki attacks where they have an intrinsic stat buff over the main body?

could see Cell win by blowing up, don't think Dio can do much about that, but I don't see him doing it in his Super Perfect Form.

Mindhax into telling Cell to IT into a blackhole or something. Or freezing actually.

End of the day fleshbuds and extract still work.

Thinking on it though, how would Cell even cope with having his life essence drained? Like i know he has regen but this isnt physical damage, he's basically getting his life force eaten. I say basically but thats literally it.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Why wouldnt it? He isnt a xenomorph

The guy Cell has the cells of:

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Uh, no, that's literally just how things work?
Go punch a door a few times, it's gonna break dude. Im not saying it stacks but the forcefields arent infallible, thats a blatant NLF, we know they can break if they take enough damage.

Or this ends up happening.

Well yeah duh, now prove the kamehameha used on Freeza's had that big a gap. Im going to say it didnt given if that gap was that big, Goku could have vaporized 100% Freeza, back in saiyan saga.
You literally jumped the gun and went in the complete opposite direction.

They were both thrown with practically zero charge time? Why would they be different?
And no, punching a hole in someone who was previously stomping you does not let you cross a x5349887 gap (Or over 686.97 billion if we're using Toei).

Do i need remind you it's a variable technique? It can be equal to, or even thousands of times, case by case.

Yeah, depending on the charge time and if it's one of its stronger variations, yada yada

why wouldnt TW be treated like Cell's ki attacks where they have an intrinsic stat buff over the main body?

They're all listed under Damage Boost, focusing ki into a single point increases its power.

Mindhax into telling Cell to IT into a blackhole or something. Or freezing actually.

Fleshbuds need to pierce Cell, so they'd trigger the explosion, as far as I'm aware. Freezing I dunno, Goku resists it tho

Thinking on it though, how would Cell even cope with having his life essence drained? Like i know he has regen but this isnt physical damage, he's basically getting his life force eaten. I say basically but thats literally it.

Probably how Piccolo reacted when Cell absorbed his arm. Cell's own absorption sucks people dry of their ki, organic matter and apparently even their soul.

 

[Chariot190]

Or this ends up happening.

The dude who can regen and is even stated to be able to continue attacking even as his flesh and bones get destroyed and cant feel pain?

You for real right now?

This isnt good enough, prove a forcefield can withstand trillions of blows by two dudes on par with Cell. Or in TW's case, just ignore it entirely.

They were both thrown with practically zero charge time? Why would they be different?

Because thats how it works? We've seen blasts be charged and not even be 2x, we've seen them not be charged and be thousands. You've obviously read it so dont be obtuse, it's case by case.

And no, punching a hole in someone who was previously stomping you does not let you cross a x5349887 gap (Or over 686.97 billion if we're using Toei).

This is so hilariously disingenuous i dont even know what to say beyond knock it the **** off.

Yeah, depending on the charge time and if it's one of its stronger variations, yada yada

Yeah cool so now prove fused zamasu = freeza example, except you cant because we know goku at his best couldnt even cross a 20x threshold against freeza with one yet against zamasu who blew a hole in a dude that outstated him by thousands.

Stop being disingenuous.

They're all listed under Damage Boost, focusing ki into a single point increases its power.

Yuh huh, and? Im not asking how much Golu Blue can do so, prove with an actual solid value how much Cell's could.
If it isnt actually some ludicrous value, it's breaking in a time stop.

Fleshbuds need to pierce Cell, so they'd trigger the explosion, as far as I'm aware. Freezing I dunno, Goku resists it tho

Spores? They dont need to pierce, thats just how he implants them usually but they can be implanted in other ways, see Enya or Nijimura. Also, again, time stop?

Probably how Piccolo reacted when Cell absorbed his arm. Cell's own absorption sucks people dry of their ki, organic matter and apparently even their soul.

And did he absorb all of Piccolo's life energy? Of course not, why even use that as an example?
He drained an arm and Piccolo broke free before he could finish. Youd only have a point if he drained all of Piccolo which, well he didnt?

Also why the ignoring of several points? TW can phase through the forcefield. We have no reason to believe Cell would lead with that with a forcefield anyway which, is useless anyway because he cant even do anything while using it. Time stop just checks everything cell can do and lets Dio just get whatever off before Cell can do anything. Life drain. Zombie Extract, etc.

Hell even fear aura, Cell is going to be paralyzed. TW is stated to have the most menacing aura of any Stand (so theres a chain here) and even those with super natural will freeze up. Cell isnt acting before Dio.