Blue Lock Discussion Thread

[Zefra3011]

Its based on how the game is going to end up, Isagi can perfectly predict all characters moves for an extended period of time, acting like this wouldn't apply to anything else is baseless.

Actually no, if we talk about analytical prediction specifically there are no proof Isagi can predict fight' scenarios,

When he uses his prediction on the field he mainly uses informations which aren't present in a fight, for example their EGOs and their play style;
AnP in a fight can be various things but I would say one of the main AnP is predicting the attack based on the previous moment something like "before a straight the boxer will step in so if I see that he steps in I know the next punch is a straight" and saying Isahi can do this with his meta vision is a big assumption on your side since he has no knowledge about fights and martial arts, he can't visualize attacks he never saw/he doesn't know;
I would say at best he can predict attacks when the opponent has an attack pattern and repeat the same attacks various time but he will need time and this won't even happen most of the time unless the opponent is very unskilled.
The most important factor for AnP is the information you need in order to predict X, unless you say fighting and soccer are similar the information you need to predict X are clearly different, so he can't use his soccer knowledge to predict things in a fight which makes his AnP useless outside the field.
An anti feat is when Shidou was kicking him, the kick wasn't anything special iirc and Isagi needed outside help to dodge it when if meta vision can be used outside in fights he would have just aim dodged it.

Power Mimicry is kind of the same, at the end he copied a play style when fighting styles are a complete different thing which involve different movements, coordination and knowledge, I wouldn't say he can copy a martial artist's movement because he sees them, he won't probably even understand them properly.

 

[Vzearr]

he won't probably even understand them properly.

Martial artist kicks are no where near as complex as this makes them seem, a child could understand how they work, anyhow, the main powerhouses for the verse would be Bachira, Ryusei, Raichi and probably Kunigami. The whole basis of this verse not deserving to be on vsbw is flawed, there are multiple fighters.

 

[Zefra3011]

Martial artist kicks are no where near as complex as this makes them seem,

It doesn't mean someone without fighting knowledge should be assumed to being able to predict them.

anyhow, the main powerhouses for the verse would be Bachira, Ryusei, Raichi and probably Kunigami.

Who have a way lower AnP compared to Isagi and they still have no fighting knowledge feats (you can't even claim they know a single martial art), so the problem still stands.
And you can't use AnP and Power Mimicry as an example to justify their fighting power when they come from Isagi's profile blog and after say he isn't a good fighter inverse especially when the ones you mentioned are way weaker than him in AnP and don't even have Power mimicry.

 

[Vzearr]

It doesn't mean someone without fighting knowledge should be assumed to being able to predict them.

If you can predict an entire sequence of moves by multiple people, predicting a simple kick isn't going to be hard.

Who have a way lower AnP compared to Isagi and they still have no fighting knowledge feats (you can't even claim they know a single martial art), so the problem still stands.
And you can't use AnP and Power Mimicry as an example to justify their fighting power when they come from Isagi's profile blog and after say he isn't a good fighter inverse especially when the ones you mentioned are way weaker than him in AnP and don't even have Power mimicry.

Didn't say I could or would. Also, yes, characters like Bachira have kicks that are indicative to real life martial arts kicks. Even so, it's not like characters need to have the martial arts ability to be allowed on the wiki lol.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Didn't say I could or would. Also, yes, characters like Bachira have kicks that are indicative to real life martial arts kicks. Even so, it's not like characters need to have the martial arts ability to be allowed on the wiki lol.

No one is saying they can't be on the Wiki just because they don't know how to fight

 

[Dinozxd]

I don't get why being a martial artist or being used in versus threads is important to have a profile on the wiki lol. There are hundreds of verses that don't get used in versus threads at all.

 

[Vzearr]

Then there is no need to continue this conversation, though, "knowing how to fight" is something that characters in this verse do know how to do.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Then there is no need to continue this conversation, though, "knowing how to fight" is something that characters in the verse do know how to do.

We are talking about the abilities not being combat applicable

Not them being unable to be on the wiki just because they don't fight

 

[Zefra3011]

If you can predict an entire sequence of moves by multiple people, predicting a simple kick isn't going to be hard.

The point is that the AnP on soccer and in fight work differently.

Also

predicting a simple kick isn't going to be hard

Isagi outright didn't predict a simple kick.

Also, yes, characters like Bachira have kicks that are indicative to real life martial arts kicks.

Can you elaborate on that? Which martial art does Bachira know based on the kick he threw? and how much skilled is he in that martial art?

Even so, it's not like characters need to have the martial arts ability to be allowed on the wiki lol.

Did I say they aren't allowed because of it? All I said is that those hax aren't combat applicable, it's different.

EDIT: I believe they are weak as hell, just that, but I agree that's not enough to determine if they are allowed or not.

 

[Vzearr]

Can you elaborate on that? Which martial art does Bachira know based on the kick he threw? and how much skilled is he in that martial art?

Turning kicks are learned Taekwon-Do.
Bachira's handstand front kick seems to be capoeria.

I believe they are weak as hell, just that, but I agree that's not enough to determine if they are allowed or not.

They already scale to street level, I honestly think looking through the manga again, they'll get to street level+, heck, maybe even wall level.

 

[Zefra3011]

Turning kicks are learned Taekwon-Do.
Bachira's handstand front kick seems to be capoeria.

Thanks,

As you see you can't determine the skill level which would still be a problem imo.
Also that "turning kick" is pretty much a random kick, I mean, it doesn't indicate he has knowledge on that martial art alone especially when, yes, the video you linked talks about turning kicks but what Bachira does seem to don't have much in common with the video if not how the leg stretches.
The other one, I have no knowledge about capoeira but... it's most likely not... I mean... I never saw anything like that in a martial art and I don't think it's a kick that would be teached in a martial art in first place.
And starting from something vague as "this seems like a kick of a martial art" proves pretty much 0 about fighting knowledge, especially in this case I would say.
If I'm not wrong they also talked about Bachira backstory and never talked about martial arts, on the other side they said he was always playing soccer so... when did he learnt them?

They already scale to street level, I honestly think looking through the manga again, they'll get to street level+, heck, maybe even wall level.

I was mainly talking skill wise but I have to acknowledge street+ would be actually a relatively decent ap

 

[Vzearr]

As you see you can't determine the skill level which would still be a problem imo.
Also that "turning kick" is pretty much a random kick, I mean, it doesn't indicate he has knowledge on that martial art alone especially when, yes, the video you linked talks about turning kicks but what Bachira does seem to don't have much in common with the video if not how the leg stretches.

Turning kicks can be like this too, generally, a kick like that is learned in martial arts, its as simple as that.

The other one, I have no knowledge about capoeira but... it's most likely not... I mean... I never saw anything like that in a martial art and I don't think it's a kick that would be teached in a martial art in first place.

Most likely because you haven't seen capoeria kicks. Here is a pretty similar kick to Bachira's that I found with a quick search.

And starting from something vague as "this seems like a kick of a martial art" proves pretty much 0 about fighting knowledge, especially in this case I would say.
If I'm not wrong they also talked about Bachira backstory and never talked about martial arts, on the other side they said he was always playing soccer so... when did he learnt them?

It'd be more assumption based to assume that he just figured out how to do a forward handstand kick on his own.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

It'd be more assumption based to assume that he just figured out how to do a forward handstand kick on his own.

You can just be flexible you know

 

[XxZetsuxX]

You can perform kicks like those if you are extremely flexible with your body and have good strenght to support your body weight

 

[Zefra3011]

Turning kicks can be like this too, generally, a kick like that is learned in martial arts, its as simple as that.

mh seem a bit different and I believe it's a kick anyone can do on the moment, if I understand correctly the standing leg has an important part in the technique while Bachira does a mid air kick so we can't really check if the technique it's correct and the kick it's meant to show his fighting knowledge.

Most likely because you haven't seen capoeria kicks. Here is a pretty similar kick to Bachira's that I found with a quick search.

That's fair, it also seems very similar actually.

It'd be more assumption based to assume that he just figured out how to do a forward handstand kick on his own.

If you mean the capoeira kick well... it's actually hard to believe he decided to to that kind of kick if he didn't know what he was doing so you might be right about this kick specifically but... still iffy given the low amount of feats generally but... I guess that for Bachira it's fair

 

[Vzearr]

You can just be flexible you know

Being flexible is not justification for the kick Bachira preformed, its a kick seen in real life, no way would he have thought of that randomly, the evidence behind that is eh.

mh seem a bit different and I believe it's a kick anyone can do on the moment, if I understand correctly the standing leg has an important part in the technique while Bachira does a mid air kick so we can't really check if the technique it's correct and the kick it's meant to show his fighting knowledge.

Actually, the kick is sort of difficult for beginners to do properly, not complex, but difficult to get the gist of it. Doing it whilst jumping is even more difficult.

 

[Vzearr]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Blue_Lock

 

[Hiiilt]

i didn't expect blue lock to have a profile on vsbw but ig it makes sense since the verse has some good feats

 

[Hiiilt]

btw, i think kunigami should have supernatural willpower since he managed to 'survive' the wild card(i think that's what it is called)

 

[Vzearr]

btw, i think kunigami should have supernatural willpower since he managed to 'survive' the wild card(i think that's what it is called)

Can you prove it would take supernatural levels of willpower to survive it? I don't think its above human willpower.

 

[Dinozxd]

i didn't expect blue lock to have a profile on vsbw but ig it makes sense since the verse has some good feats

They are already Street level with Supehuman speeds and Peak Human Lifting Strength. I think this verse has some decent potential.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I'm inclined to put Ayanokoji against Isagi or any high tier in a football match XD

 

[Vzearr]

I'm inclined to put Ayanokoji against Isagi or any high tier in a football match XD

Oh lord.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Oh lord.

Equalized speed

Ayanokoji vs Isagi

Both are broken in adaptability (Koji has better adaptability though)

Both can copy abilities

Both are intelligence (Though Isagi has the edge in football)

 

[Dinozxd]

I'm inclined to put Ayanokoji against Isagi or any high tier in a football match XD

what would the scenario be though? Like a full on soccer match between them (with 10 irrelevant and completely equal players on both side) or a straight up one on one?

 

[XxZetsuxX]

what would the scenario be though? Like a full on soccer match between them (with 10 irrelevant and completely equal players on both side) or a straight up one on one?

Isagi is more capable with a full team right?

How about his current team (Which i assume he has full knowledge about their capabilities) vs Ayanokoji, Nagumo, Manabu, Ryuuen, Housen, Albert, Fuuka, Hirata, Sudou and Ishizaki?

I tried not to place WR students and agents as it would be more unfair

 

[Dinozxd]

Isagi is more capable with a full team right?

yeah a 1v1 situation would be unfair for him.

How about his current team (Which i assume he has full knowledge about their capabilities) vs Ayanokoji, Nagumo, Manabu, Ryuuen, Housen, Albert, Fuuka, Hirata, Sudou and Ishizaki?

Well none of these guys know how to play soccer while Isagi's playing with pro footballers so not sure about this at all.

I tried not to place WR students and agents as it would be more unfair

I mean can they mimic every sport like Ayanokouji? If not, then they would struggle at keeping up with Isagi's team skill wise, even if they match them soccer knowledge wise.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Well none of these guys know how to play soccer while Isagi's playing with pro footballers so not sure about this at all.

Nagumo has played football, Also, Normally in PE they teach you how to play football no?

I mean, I think every school teaches you, Not on professional level but still

I mean can they mimic every sport like Ayanokouji?

No

If not, then they would struggle at keeping up with Isagi's team skill wise, even if they match them soccer knowledge wise.

I think the AP and LS would cover a tiny bit the skill disadvantage

 

[Hiiilt]

Well none of these guys know how to play soccer while Isagi's playing with pro footballers so not sure about this at all.

Some of those guys are considered athletic and if I remember correctly at least some of them can play football(like hirata) but, like you said, they're not comparable to anyone from blue lock in terms of skill In football so it would be kinda unfair imo

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Koji can pull a Nagi XD

 

[Dinozxd]

Also, Normally in PE they teach you how to play football no?

I mean, I think every school teaches you, Not on professional level but still

Well they should teach you basic things but you can't just use that knowledge aganist pro level players.

I think the AP and LS would cover a tiny bit the skill disadvantage

Well only AP in this case would be helpful in shooting power (Blue Lock players can easily cover that with skill). I don't see AP and LS coming in handy at anywhere else as it's likely that intense physical contact would result in fouls.

Also, I don't think Cote characters other than Koji and WR dudes have better LS than Blue Lock. Characters like Kunigami scale to Peak Human LS. While characters that downscale from him scale to Above Average Human LS early in the series.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Well they should teach you basic things but you can't just use that knowledge aganist pro level players.

Still better than nothing XD

Well only AP in this case would be helpful in shooting power (Blue Lock players can easily cover that with skill). I don't see AP and LS coming in handy at anywhere else as it's likely that intense physical contact would result in fouls.

No skill would ever help you catch a ball faster

With speed equalized, I doubt they easily could catch a 4.6 KJ from the others and a 9.92 KJ blow from Koji

Also, I don't think Cote characters other than Koji and WR dudes have better LS than Blue Lock. Characters like Kunigami scale to Peak Human LS. While characters that downscale from him scale to Above Average Human LS early in the series.

Oh wait, I could put Koenji, LOL i forgot about him (I doubt he would be useful if we use him in character)

 

[Dinozxd]

Still better than nothing XD

The differnce in skill between pro players and people who know soccer from PE classes is really large.

No skill would ever help you catch a ball faster

Well we're going speed equalized so yeah.

With speed equalized, I doubt they easily could catch a 4.6 KJ from the others and a 9.92 KJ blow from Koji

Manabu doesn't scale to everyone right? Only guys like Housen and Nagumo scales to him and the others are pretty much dead weight other than Koji. Gagamaru (he's the keeper of Bastard Munchen) early on the series scales to 2.4 KJ so I doubt he would get AP stomped by Cote characters especially when Blue Lock characters develop both skill wise and physically in the series.

Some side notes, being able to put your entire strength into the ball while also shooting it accurately requires some skill which cote characters don't have (other than Koji).The keeper also wouldn't have to tank the entire force of the ball to save it as he can just deflect it without tanking the full energy of the ball.

Oh wait, I could put Koenji, LOL i forgot about him (I doubt he would be useful if we use him in character)

I really doubt he would be useful in a scenario like this. He would just sit in the corner lol.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

The differnce in skill between pro players and people who know soccer from PE classes is really large.

They still know how to pass and dribble though, Not professional level but they won't lose the ball that quick

The hard part will be stealing the opponents ball, Otherwise they are good enough to pass and dribble

Manabu doesn't scale to everyone right?

He scales to 4.6 KJ, Nagumo scales to him (Technically), Housen, Albert, You get the point

With physicality alone almost everyone aside from Hirata and Ishizaki scales to Manabu

Only guys like Housen and Nagumo scales to him and the others are pretty much dead weight other than Koji. Gagamaru (he's the keeper of Bastard Munchen) early on the series scales to 2.4 KJ so I doubt he would get AP stomped by Cote characters especially when Blue Lock characters develop both skill wise and physically in the series.

what i said above

Some side notes, being able to put your entire strength into the ball while also shooting it accurately requires some skill which cote characters don't have (other than Koji).

It does not require professional levels of skill wdym?

The keeper also wouldn't have to tank the entire force of the ball to save it as he can just deflect it without tanking the full energy of the ball.

It would be hard

I really doubt he would be useful in a scenario like this. He would just sit in the corner lol.

Yeah Kouenji useless lol

 

[Dinozxd]

They still know how to pass and dribble though, Not professional level but they won't lose the ball that quick

The hard part will be stealing the opponents ball, Otherwise they are good enough to pass and dribble

Highschool boys who knows how to play football vs Pro Footballers. The skill difference is there lol.

He scales to 4.6 KJ, Nagumo scales to him (Technically), Housen, Albert, You get the point

With physicality alone almost everyone aside from Hirata and Ishizaki scales to Manabu

I thought Albert was a low tier? Also, Sudou and Fuuka scales to Manabu? I really don't know about that scaling but this is not a cote discussion thread so whatever.

It does not require professional levels of skill wdym?

It requires some decent skill still which these guys don't have. They aren't gifted in football or anything so they wouldn't be able to learn it in the match as well.

It would be hard

Keepers punch balls really often so not really.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Highschool boys who knows how to play football vs Pro Footballers. The skill difference is there lol.

Yeah but they can still do what i said, Isagi and the others would just do better, That's all

I thought Albert was a low tier? Also, Sudou and Fuuka scales to Manabu? I really don't know about that scaling but this is not a cote discussion thread so whatever.

Since when? Albert is stronger than Manabu due to higher muscle mass + Taller etc etc

Physicallity is still a thing in COTE

It requires some decent skill still which these guys don't have. They aren't gifted in football or anything so they wouldn't be able to learn it in the match as well.

You do not need to be gifted at football, Above average is enough and it still might be pushing it too much

Keepers punch balls really often so not really.

Hm

 

[Dinozxd]

Yeah but they can still do what i said, Isagi and the others would just do better, That's all

yeah I didn't say they can't dribble, pass or shoot. Blue Lock characetrs would just do it.

Since when? Albert is stronger than Manabu due to higher muscle mass + Taller etc etc

Physicallity is still a thing in COTE

I mean I don't see that on the profile but whatever, this isn't the place to discuss that.

You do not need to be gifted at football, Above average is enough and it still might be pushing it too much

I said:

It requires some decent skill still which these guys don't have. They aren't gifted in football or anything so they wouldn't be able to learn it in the match as well.

I said shooting with your entire strength requires some decent skill and the cote characxters aren't gifted in football or something so they can't figure how to do that in the match as well (I refred to some kind of Accelarated Development situation here).

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I said shooting with your entire strength requires some decent skill and the cote characxters aren't gifted in football or something so they can't figure how to do that in the match as well (I refred to some kind of Accelarated Development situation here).

Since when do you need skill to measure your own strenght?

Unless i'm getting something wrong here, I can do that just fine?

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I mean I don't see that on the profile but whatever, this isn't the place to discuss that.

Outdated profiles, Don't worry, I'm working on them

 

[Dinozxd]

Since when do you need skill to measure your own strenght?

Unless i'm getting something wrong here, I can do that just fine?

It's not "measuring your strength" it's about being able to put your entire body weight into the shot. Think of it like boxers putting their weight into their punches. An inexperienced fighter wouldn't be able to put his whole body weight into a punch while an experienced boxer can.