Bloodborne 8-A Downgrade

[DMUA]

There isn't anything to really contradict them moving at the same speed throughout the game, unless you can point to some lore that would take priority

 

[Poiesis_Element]

There's not really anything to contradict them moving at different speeds either, at least technically. As for lore, that's tricky since there isn't anything in-game that says "and thus, the hunters endowed with the power of the cosmos proved too fast for simple beasts to touch" or something like that. I did, however, take a quick look at a couple of things and could probably put something together.

The Blacksky Eye is described as a "Soft eye blessed by a phantasm." A phantasm in Bloodborne is beleived to be "a familiar of a Great One," as per the description of the Empty Phantasmal Shell. As such, this would imply that these items held a portion of the power of a Great One. As such, I don't see why characters who lack such a power or who aren't comparable to those who have it, such as the Hunter at the beginning of the game, would scale to such things. Additionally, with regards to the Lightning Mages of the Fishing Hamlet, the Hamlet itself had some sort of direct relationship to Kos, which could imply that they received their powers in a similar manner.

Granted, that's at least somewhat speculative of me, but I digress. Point being is I fail to see how bottom tier characters scale to even the 7-Cs in any way regarding speed.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The three cords granting a massive boost supports them moving at increased speeds

 

[DMUA]

Power isn't necessarily tied to Speed depending on the verse

 

[Poiesis_Element]

There is still an element of escalation, though. The Hunter starts off dodging bullets and cannon fire at a time when those things are an actual threat. Then they go up against beings that can summon meteors and lightning. Finally, they can avoid the expelled power of an exploding star before going on to fight the Moon Presence, who flew down from the moon in the Hunter's Dream in a matter of seconds.

Look, I might be fine with saying that the bottom tiers are "At least Transonic, possibly High Hypersonic+," but anything more than that it just a bit much for me to buy into.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

For AP we can wait for Poiesis' calc (dunno what feat it is but it should work for our purposes). I'm fine with Transonic possibly High Hypersonic+.

 

[Poiesis_Element]

Basically, I'm going to calculate the sonic energy of Vicar Amelia's ground blast using the same method as this calculatio for Showa-Era Rodan.

Actually, Bambu, since you're here, could you do me a favour. I've been wondering if another calculation for the bottom tiers could be done. Do you think you could calculate the energy required for the Watchdog of the Old Lords spewing lava. I'm kind of curious as to whether or not that could produce a good value.

 

[Poiesis_Element]

Posted it!

Hopefully, it'll be fine. Anyway, I'm off to bed now. See you all later.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Lava is pretty low normally. I got excited about it for Lavasioth in Monster Hunter, who is probably roughly the same size, and got 9-A.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Surviving Lava is 9-B for human sized characters, but could be higher if the character is larger.

 

[Tetsucabrah]

Why exactly is a call beyond star level? Just because of the item description?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Why exactly is a call beyond star level? Just because of the item description?

I mean. Because all in-game lore refers to it as a literal destruction of a star.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Surviving Lava is 9-B for human sized characters, but could be higher if the character is larger.

I think he's referring more to the actual energy of projecting a large volume of lava/magma at high speeds

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I assume not, since he knows KE. Even then I don't think it'd be 8-C.

Lava tends to get into emissivity calcs and again, is like 9-B for human-sized fellows and I got 9-A for a similarly sized creature.

 

[Tetsucabrah]

I mean. Because all in-game lore refers to it as a literal destruction of a star.

Can you post that lore for me? I don't remember it being that.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

One of the secret rites of the Choir. Long ago, the Healing Church used phantasms to reach a lofty plane of darkness, but failed to make contact with the outer reaches of the cosmos. The rite failed to achieve its intended purpose, but instead created a small exploding star, now a powerful part of the Choir's arsenal. At times, failure is the mother of invention.
	~ A Call Beyond​

all in-game lore is, from beginning and end, its description

 

[Tetsucabrah]

I mean can't Thor's feat from Infinity War be considered a "small star explosion"?

And that's not rated as star level.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Didn't it get wildly expanded on though

plus have a size we can see that directly contradicted it being even the size of a "small star", like wildly so, to the point that it was nowhere near star sized

it had a calc based on the fact that it was in fact a star, just didn't reach star level due to being absurdly small

this isn't the place for MCU talk though, but the cases aren't the same

 

[Tetsucabrah]

Yeah my point is it's an absurdly small star.

Do we even know how big the star that a call beyond came from is?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Its star-sized. In the japanese translation they state that its an actual star and A Call Beyond is a portal that reaches through space to condense all of the energy of that star's destruction into an attack

 

[Tetsucabrah]

Its star-sized. In the japanese translation they state that its an actual star and A Call Beyond is a portal that reaches through space to condense all of the energy of that star's destruction into an attack

Ah. That's all I needed to hear then. Carry on.

 

[Poiesis_Element]

Actually, my point was more about how much energy to melt the volume of lava/keep it heated in the first place. I was thinking of calculations like the ones for Dark Souls' Chaos Pyromancies and the Ceaseless Discharge maintaining the lava heat.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Oh. That could work, yeah.

The difference between those and this is that, for the Dark Souls one, it actually creates the lava, and Discharge actually just sorta... makes it not lava.

Not sure if its applicable for just spewing it out but hey, might be worth it to give it a go.

 

[Poiesis_Element]

The Discharge calc is more about the lava being prevented from cooling, so I thought, since the lava is stored/produced by the Watchdog, who has a lot of fire/heat based attacks, that it could be used to determine the energy needed to do so.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I s'pose.

 

[Poiesis_Element]

Also, just to see what people think, he's what I'd update the Hunter's new speed ratings to.

At least Transonic (Can easily dodge point-blank flintlock and cannon fire and the sonic screeches of the Lost Children of Antiquity), possibly High Hypersonic+ (Potentially capable of dodging low-level arcane projectiles such as the meteors of the Blacksky Eye) | Massively Hypersonic (Capable of dodging meteors and lightning, as well as electrical attacks from the Tonitrus, Darkbeast Paarl, Loran Darkbeast, the Abhorrent Beast, and Silverbeasts) | At least Massively Hypersonic (Should be far faster than before. Can avoid the cloud-to-ground lightning attack of the Orphan of Kos) | Massively Hypersonic+ (Can dodge "A Call Beyond") | Massively Hypersonic+ | Massively Hypersonic+ (Can keep up with the Moon Presence, who can fly down from the moon in the Hunter's Dream in a matter of seconds)

Let me know if there are any problems.

 

[DMUA]

It should be fine

 

[Mr. Bambu]

So, the speed suggestions Poiesis suggested and High 8-C scaling to Vicar Amelia. Any oppositions?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

No but I do have a semi-related question regarding the lava feat. Would it be possible to calc lava being super cooled to the point of being covered in ice?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Yes, that's just a heat-change calc.

 

[Poiesis_Element]

So now I'm guessing we just need to wait for authorisation before the changes can be made?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Well.

We have myself (I don't count, I made the thread), so that's out.

That said, Weekly and DDM ostensibly agree to the revisions, Ovens, Steven and DMUA have all commented and in DMUA's case even discussed, with Ovens and Steven both voicing their go-aheads.

So I'd say we can put this through. No objections have been raised yet.

 

[Poiesis_Element]

Bump

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Alright, guess there's no objections. I'll go through and put the Speed/AP changes through.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Aight, all speed/AP revisions have been put through boys.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Alright, and is there anything else?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

the new bloodborne comic gave some fun new feats regarding time displacement and the Great Ones and their perception of time

 

[Mr. Bambu]

might be better to make a new CRT for that