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Blitz vs One Shot (Shadow vs Mewtwo edition)

@Schnee

I thought he said the punch will petrify, but whatever, it's not worth arguing it

@Cal

>Scale to a superweapon that would have killed them

Yeah, in SA2 and Shadow, the two games where Sonic doesn't scale to it lol, plus it's never stated it would have killed them as well

Why is Solaris a outlier?
 
Solaris would be an outlier as if everyone including the super villains scale to 2-C, they being comparable at all to the strongest being in the franchise is null. Also with the death of a variable tier, immeasurable becomes the biggest outlier in the franchise.
 
The real cal howard said:
Solaris would be an outlier as if everyone including the super villains scale to 2-C, they being comparable at all to the strongest being in the franchise is null. Also with the death of a variable tier, immeasurable becomes the biggest outlier in the franchise.
Click to expand...
I personally don't agree with Immeasurable speed myself, but if you guys agree, and believe in it, then go ahead and feel free to do so. I just don't really agree with Super forms having Immeasurable speed, but I don't feel like explains why right now as I have work to do.

As for Universal level Super forms, I'm divided, as while I kinda get it, I can also see why it's not treated as legit.
 
The real cal howard said:
Solaris would be an outlier as if everyone including the super villains scale to 2-C, they being comparable at all to the strongest being in the franchise is null. Also with the death of a variable tier, immeasurable becomes the biggest outlier in the franchise.
Click to expand...
Egg Wizard has the same AP as Solaris, plus I don't know if I actualy agree with everyone being 2-C actualy

Plus Solaris shouldn't be the only immesurable feat, and most of Super Sonic feats is either holding back where things like the Eggmobile can keep up, or unquatifable, I would give a list but that's derrail
 
What level of mind hax does he resist? Mewtwo's mind hax isn't baseline, so if Shadow can't resist, this is a null point.

TK doesn't require him to move. Mewtwo's TK is also thought-based and comes off far faster. If he has to realize Mewtwo is a blur for that to happen, him using Time Stop would be very unlikely because Mewtwo can TK and mind hax while being stationary.
 
Mega is planet, base is island.

I'm still calling doubt on Shadow resisting mindhax at all when he had a canonical history of losing his memories.
 
Shadow resisted planetary mindhax, first from Black Doom, who controls all of the Black Arms as a hivemind, which Shadow is part of, and the Ifrit, who can mindhax Sonic, which resists Dark Gaia's, who affects the entire planet, and if Shadow has one emerald that one also allows him to resist planetary mindhax, because it made Team Sonic immune to the Voxai Overmind

Shadow only lost his memories once, and become of his inexperiente with his super form, and he fought just fine in Heroes without a memory

Also I meant the TK move Shadow, if Shadow sees Mewtwo trying to invade his mind he just stops time as well
 
Shadow can feel his mind being invaded, this has nothing to do with speed, just because you are fast doesn't mean your opponent can't feel what you are doing to them
 
Shadow processes a thought to time stop.

This is slower than Mewtwo using telekinesis, realizing it doesn't do shit, using mindhax, realizing it doesn't do shit, using literally anything in their arsenal and shadow resisting it, then using petrification.

Thus, Mewtwo wins via shooting first.
 
Theuser789 said:
Shadow can feel his mind being invaded, this has nothing to do with speed, just because you are fast doesn't mean your opponent can't feel what you are doing to them
Click to expand...
Absolutely not

Unless you can tell me that processing the feeling of getting your mind invaded doesn't require a thought or speed, it absolutely has to do with speed.
 
Pretty sure Black Doom part comes from the fact Shadow isn't purely Black Arms. Even then, resistance wouldn't matter because Miracle Eye negs that.

Shadow wouldn't feel his mind invaded from TK, he just feels his body being restrained if anything.

Shadow 100% has Black Arms blood, which is why it even worked before Shadow resisted, Black Doom even notes that as well, Shadow biologically is 100% Black Arms, reason why they have the same colors, Shadow can feel them, and Black Doom says the same blood runs through them, nothing in the game implies the resistance comes because he isn't a full Black Arm, but because of his strong will of seeing Gerald and Maria giving him purpose, especialy using a wikia, a wikia that can't be always accurate

I am pretty sure one emerald has resistance already which I am pretty sure one is at least standard, even if it negates his mindhax resistance, which I doubt, it won't negate it from his emerald

I can conced on the speed, but mindhax won't work
 
Also when has miracle eye actualy negated resistance? All I know it negates the type weaknesses, when did actualy negate mindhax, it's one of those, "always said but never show"
 
Type weaknesses? Those are resistances of the pokemon, not the weaknesses of the user.

Dark-types have complete immunity to psychic moves, Miracle Eye completely negates that.
 
Edwardtruong2006 said:
Type weaknesses? Those are resistances of the pokemon, not the weaknesses of the user.

Dark-types have complete immunity to psychic moves, Miracle Eye completely negates that.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that has nothing to do with mindhax resistance negation, physic type moves is very broud, plus I am pretty sure "controlling someone's mind" isn't a Pokemon move with typing

There has to be one instance of it negating actual mindhax
 
Confusion, Hypnosis, Shattered Psyche, Instruct, Dream Eater

Mind control/mind manipulation and it's subtypes are definitely psychic-type moves.
 
None of those moves are mind control, none, they are only subsets of mindhax, you can't give something resistance because you resist a subset of it

Again, just show it negating mindcontrol, not a subset, mind control
 
Confusion and Psybeam: It's mindhax though. Like it inflicts confuse, a mind-debilitating status effect which is mind manipulation. Which mind control is a subset of.

Shattered Psyche: The user controls the target with its Z-Power and hurts the target with full force.

Mind Manipulation is part of Psychic-type, Dark-types resist this. Miracle Eye negates this resistance. Thus Miracle Eye negates Mind Manipulation resistance.

Also psychic powers are considered Mind Manipulation due to Alakazam's profile, so you'd need to make a CRT when the forum moves.
 
Dark type pokemon aren't immune to mind hax, as by your logic they can still be confused and mind reader works on them too
 
Just because you resist being confused doesn't mean you resist being mind controlled, plus inflicting confusion has nothing to do with mind manipulation, moves that have nothing to do with mind inflict confusion

You can "control" someone with TK

Repeating yourself is nice, but resisting being confused, put to sleep, etc does not make you resistant to mind control

Might make the CRT if you couldn't show a single proof of my question and keeps dodging it
 
Miracle Eye only allows them to affect Dark Types, but it doesn't bypass mind hax resistance since they're aren't immune to it in the first place (case in point, mind reader)
 
Just because you resist being confused doesn't mean you resist being mind controlled

If you resist Mind Manipulation (which Confusion is, not really any subtype that fits it) you'd resist Mind Control. You don't need to specifically show a resistance to every subtype/application of

plus inflicting confusion has nothing to do with mind manipulation,

What do you think Confusion as a move is then? That the very weak telekinetic blast somehow inflicts a concussion on the target? Occam's Razor states that a psychic move that inflicts confusion should be mind manipulation.

You can "control" someone with TK

Once again, very specific interpretation but whatever. Shattered Psyche involves alot of throwing around anyways. So this interpretation is valid enough.
 
Miracle eye just seems to negate the resistance that dark type already have, doesn't seem to be something you can just apply to random people because they aren't dark types

Plus according to Gilad above dark types aren't immune to actual mindhax attacks like mind reader
 
Plus Miracle eye only negates resistance to dark types in verse as well, even though other types can make you resistant to physic, miracle eye doesn't negate those
 
Can you give a statement where he says that he's 100% Black Arms? Citation would help here. If there was Black Arms DNA partially in Shadow's biology, nothing you listed would change because that'd still be possible from the limited DNA he possesses. You can receive traits from your parents such as hair, eye color, etc., but you're not a direct clone of them if there are other samples (your other parent as an example for genetic variation) involved. I don't think it needs to be implied. You said it works on the Black Arms and it notes they are an extension of his will. Has he shown to mind hax anybody else aside from them? If so, I'll concede the point. However, if he can't the implications would be very heavily lean toward it being because of biology. The Sonic Wiki largely provides citation, even that Shadow's main classification is as a hedgehog if anything.

"Yeah, that has nothing to do with mindhax resistance negation, physic type moves is very broud, plus I am pretty sure "controlling someone's mind" isn't a Pokemon move with typing"

This isn't really a good refutation to the point. Psychic type moves in general are based from the mind, which is what the mind hax also come from. If you're negging any of the other inflictments that come from Miracle Eye, it'd be the same for mind manip. That'd be an argument from ignorance otherwise. Also, I'd have to retrieve a scan, but I'm pretty sure either Psychic or Confusion has been applied under mind manip before.
 
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