Bleach - Sternritter Speed Calc Issue

[Damage3245]

Regarding the currently accepted and used calc for Liltotto's feat of dodging Candice's lightning bolts.

I believe there is a significant issue behind the feat that should prevent this calc from being used; at least in its current state.

This is the first page of the feat, where we can see Liltotto on the last panel being in close proximity to Candice (the calc puts them at being about 33 centimeters from each other).

The second page of the feat is this, where we can see that Liltotto is no longer near Candice (now calced to be just over 16 meters away) and Candice is spraying lightning bolts around her in rage.

The main issue is that the calc assumes that Candice started firing her lightning when Liltotto was only 33 centimeters away from her, and that Liltotto crossed that full 16 meter distance before the lightning fired from Candice crossed that distance of 33 centimeters.

The problem is that there is no intermediary panel; we don't see Liltotto dodging the bolt, her pose is entirely relaxed on the next page in fact and Candice doesn't appear to be deliberating targeting them so much as she's just releasing her power in rage from being hit multiple times.

There is no indication that Candice started shooting her lightning when Liltotto was still so close to her.

There is no indication that Liltotto travelled 16 meters before the lightning travelled just a third of meter.

 

[The_Causality]

Oof

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

We covered this in the other thread already.

 

[Omimi]

where?

 

[Damage3245]

We covered this in the other thread already.

Well, I've made a new thread for this specifically.

 

[Sekkonds.]

I agree

 

[USklaverei]

I agree on some things, as there is no indication that Liltotto traveled 16 meters before arriving at it.

But I do not agree to having no clue about Candice starting to shoot at Liltotto when she was so close to her, it's kind of obvious that Candice did this to keep the rest of her away from her since the others had just collided with her.

I think the discussion is about how far she crossed before lightening struck her and that's kind of impossible to know.

 

[Damage3245]

> it's kind of obvious that Candice did this to keep the rest of her away from her since the others had just collided with her.

Liltotto had already stopped moving in that panel; she stopped herself by stomping her foot onto Candice's face.

 

[USklaverei]

Yes, Candice furiously fired her beams to drive them away.

 

[USklaverei]

The reaction of this is Mach 4300, as we do not know how much it has moved, I think it is best to consider the same reaction, I believe.

 

[Damage3245]

I'm not sure I follow that.

But since we're in agreement (for the most part) that the current calc is flawed, how shall we address their ratings?

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

I've contacted Imade and he said he'll replay.

 

[Damage3245]

I've contacted Imade and he said he'll replay.

Alright, thank you.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

>The main issue is that the calc assumes that Candice started firing her lightning when Liltotto was only 33 centimeters away from her, and that Liltotto crossed that full 16 meter distance before the lightning fired from Candice crossed that distance of 33 centimeters. The problem is that there is no intermediary panel; we don't see Liltotto dodging the bolt, her pose is entirely relaxed on the next page in fact...
I think the only way to tell this is too look at the order of the panels and get an understanding of the timeframes between them. As we can see in the three panels before Candice fires her lightning we see the Quincy Girls all individually hitting Candice in the face one by one. And in each of the panels we see the previous Quincy Girl that hit Candice in the same panel moving away, indicating that the timeframe between the panels is pretty damn low.

Because of that, in the panel immediately after Liltotto hits Candice, I see no reason not to assume the same short timeframe has occurred as in the previous 3 panels, hell even the previous 4 since Candice got out of the debris mad only to be immediately hit in the face by Giselle.

So as seen with how close in proximity Giselle and Meninas were to the successive Quincy Girl that hit Candice, that means Liltotto would have been in close proximity too. Also, we would have to assume that Candice wasn't enraged and pissed off to the point of her tantrum despite having already been angered by Ichigo, dirtied by Ichigo, hit by Giselle, hit by Meninas and then kicked by Liltotto.

>Candice doesn't appear to be deliberating targeting them so much as she's just releasing her power in rage from being hit multiple times.

That's fair and I agree, but Candice did do an AoE blast, so I don't think this matters.

>There is no indication that Candice started shooting her lightning when Liltotto was still so close to her.

There is as I explained above.

>There is no indication that Liltotto travelled 16 meters before the lightning travelled just a third of meter.

What we do know is that Liltotto was close to Candice and outsped the AoE lightning blast fired so close in proximity to her given the chain of panels.

 

[USklaverei]

We know that Liltotto moved enough to not be hit by the lightning, it should be between 3/4 meters.

 

[Damage3245]

@IMade; I don't doubt that the sequence of events happened very quickly. But even if Giselle, Meninas and Liltotto all hit Candice in half of a millisecond each and moved away (which is a pretty generous estimate based on what's happening in those panels alone), that'd still be a lot longer than the current calced timeframe.

> Also, we would have to assume that Candice wasn't enraged and pissed off to the point of her tantrum despite having already been angered by Ichigo, dirtied by Ichigo, hit by Giselle, hit by Meninas and then kicked by Liltotto.

I'm certain that she was at the point of her electrifying tantrum by the last of those events, but as you've said even though we can assume Liltotto was somewhere nearby, it is pretty hard to try and estimate where she is at the moment that Candice begins releasing her electricity.

> What we do know is that Liltotto was close to Candice and outsped the AoE lightning blast fired so close in proximity to her given the chain of panels.

Which could put her anywhere between just slightly faster than lightning, or Sub-Relativistic+ going by the current calc.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Given the sequence of events and the placement of the previous Quincy Girls in the previous panels of succession, Liltotto could not have been further than where we saw Meninas and Giselle placed.

You mentioned millisecond for the timeframe between panels; however, that's not what we're lookimg for, it's the distance. Our timeframe is derived from lightning crossing the distance with its set speed. That gives our timeframe.

The distance can be found using Giselle and Menimas' placement away from Candice shown in their follow up panel.

 

[Damage3245]

@IMade; why are we assuming that Liltotto only got as far away as Giselle and Menimas did earlier before Candice fired off her lightning?

You say that Liltotto could not have been further away than where they were, but seeing as Liltotto moving was offscreen between the panel of her stomping on Candices's face and her being approximately 16 meters away, that seems difficult to say conclusively.

 

[USklaverei]

Really the problem here is how much Liltotto crossed, how she avoided the thunderbolt, it's at least that. Since you can not calculate, you can assume between 3/4 meters.

 

[Damage3245]

@USkalverei; assuming that she avoided a thunderbolt in the first place. According to IMade Candice simply released an AOE attack.

If Liltotto was already out of the way when that AOE attack went off, then she wouldn't have had to dodge anything.

 

[M11UTD]

It was shown that they were moving away from the lightning, that's the reason Candy shoot it in the first place, to move them away. Lillo was the closest one to her.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

@IMade; why are we assuming that Liltotto only got as far away as Giselle and Menimas did earlier before Candice fired off her lightning?

Consistency with the previous distances of movement in the past 2 panels of a similar instance.

You say that Liltotto could not have been further away than where they were, but seeing as Liltotto moving was offscreen between the panel of her stomping on Candices's face and her being approximately 16 meters away, that seems difficult to say conclusively.
Liltotto could not have been further than Meninas and Giselle were in the succession of time as seen in the previous panels. That's the furthest Liltotto could possibly have been by the time Candice shot out her lightning, Liltotto is obviously faster than the lightning as she got ahead of it and further.

 

[Damage3245]

Since there doesn't appear to be any disagreement with the current calc being flawed, is there anyone who would like to try and fix it?

 

[USklaverei]

We have to agree on the minimum distance she had to cross.

 

[Damage3245]

Based on the sequence of events in the manga, I don't think it is possible to concretely say exactly how far she travelled before Candices's lightning went off. For all we know she crossed a dozen meters before the lightning started travelling.

The other girls being near to Candice when Liltotto hit her doesn't mean that Liltotto likewise had to be near to Candice when Candice started letting the electricity fly.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Imade literally explained that to you.

 

[Damage3245]

All IMade said that it was consistent with the previous panels, which is just an interpretation.

> Liltotto could not have been further than Meninas and Giselle were in the succession of time as seen in the previous panels.

That isn't a proof that she could not have been further away. That's just an assertation.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

No it's not, you can clearly see that's the case.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Anyway, at best a revised version with an greater distance will get Sub Rel or High End MHS+, and then there's the over Speed thread that got accepted to,so the ratings will stay the same or get upgraded.

 

[USklaverei]

Yes, the results will be High MHS+ and the Sub-Relativist

 

[Sekkonds.]

So what are the consensus here?

 

[M11UTD]

USklaverei might recalc it to high MHS+ or sub-rel