So at 100 km, would you really call it “the space of the universe,” or maybe as the author intend 宇宙空間 it as a vacuum?
Disagree.
Out of context.
Another out of context, Halibel is rated many levels above Toshiro in the wiki.
Proof of Scaling
1. Rangiku dodged a Cero of characters comparable to her.
2. Starrk and Shunsui are relative, yet Shunsui could DODGE A BARRAGE of them, not one, but dozens.
3. Zaraki literally run away from a Cero, and he needed to 2vs1 Yammy, hence he is even weaker here.
4. Kisuke didn't just blitzed yammy, because to blitz him here, he needed to outpace fully the Bala which is evena x20 of Cero.
No you did not, you need a statement addressing all cases, not some examples that coincidentally doesn't have
This part is a strawman. that example attacks the idea that 1 thing happening a few times equating it to happen every time
Just because the current consensus is such doesn’t mean we cannot have it re-evaluated. It’s a standard practice when arguing from and to in a CRT
If @M3X_2.0 and @Dalesean027 have any idea, I'll will update the calc.
A few more problems with the scaling chain. When applying multipliers resulting in stat boosts of 100x or higher you would require supporting feats, DB was recently downgraded because of that
This will discuss later, when we get a consensus for the calc.
Huh??? Wha?? Why are you bringing up AP here??
She couldn't even budge to dodge, so this is a clear anti feat for the supposed 100% automatic scaling as you say
???
Why are you bringing AP again???????Another out of context, Halibel is rated many levels above Toshiro in the wiki.
Toshiro:
Hallibel:
Nope, i provided examples of faster or relative characters being outsped by ceros
What you seem to not catch with attack speed is, you don't have to be as fast as the attack to dodge it, distance between you and your opponent, aim dodging, and other circumstances can already allow you to dodge attacks faster than yourself, if we say Kenpachi is somewhere in mhs+ ranges rn for example, he would be easily capable of dodging a mhs+ - sub rel attack without needing to scale
From what I've found, in 2012 (which is when Bleach: Spirits are Forever with You was written), there were only 1,046 active satellites in orbit.
Do you get my argument?
We don't need a separate thread for that because the issues I brought up are for multipliers not accepted right now, they are OP's additions.
100x or higher multipliers need supportive feats, this is a currently existing rule active right now. You have to abide by it.
The 14c value, scales only to Ichigo BTW.
Yeah its wrong
Now we arguing UES...
this makes no sense , stronger doesnt automatically mean faster than another character's attack speed, which is the thread about
So you cant show Zaraki dodging his Ceros consistently, and you ignore contradicting things which you asked to be shown, and I had shown multiple examples of, I have nothing else to say then
I never said that, they can all be able to dodge it, and still not scale to the full speed
I think 2022 data (2,000 km)is fine to use. Maybe in future Bleach sups could use this data to make calc better, but for now it's good enough
The issue is that you need to create a separate thread to remove the multipliers.
Technically, the problem isn't the issue of a 100x multiplier, but rather the stacking itself. People on this site often bypassed the site's "100x standard" by stacking multipliers resulting in a scale of more than 100x in total (2400x on your scale). Technically you are not violating the standard, but of 100x, but it's just a way of bypassing the standard. But this needs to be discussed in a thread about multipliers.
Given what @Qurbonboev said about the original value being as of 2012 from when we got the novel then I'd agree with him and M3X that the original value is fine instead of us using the current 2025 value that wasn't the case at the time the statement came from
So you agree on the 2000km, but what about the time period? We don't have a standard for "blink of an eye" so we need to reach a consensus about the time period. One CGM rejected the literal use of the statement (I believe he's against using 0.1s). We need to know your opinion and M3X's opinion.
Both of them proposed the 0.1 m/s.
No, this thread is proposing to add new multipliers which I brought up issues with, I don't have issues with the currently accepted ones.
We already gave our opinions, why do you keep asking about it when we've specified several times that the original assumption is fine that we suggested. You're just pushing for a drop when we've already said out stance several times, please drop it
These aren't new multipliers lmao. They've been accepted for years.
uter_Space
Man, somehow I didn't find that page (even though I was already using their data earlier...), so good on you for finding that!
That is a fantastic question that I wish I had the answer to.
For the 2012 version, shouldn't you add other results using 0.1 and 0.3 seconds like you did with the low-earth orbit end?I put in the calc the 2012 end, since it is when the Novel is written: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Infinite9Luck/Cien's_Cero_goes_int
Honestly both the scenario are good, using 1s for the 2012 end (since it is far more distance), both end up to 6% light.
Both the 2000km in 0.1, or the 17000km in 1s.
So if both are fine. We can proceed to finalise the speed at 6% light as per this thread since both of you are okay with it, both calcs are usable. And still same result which support each other.
I was looking at the fan summary (which doesn't give a lot of description of the scene), and it seems like he was aiming this Cero at Roca Paramia? It seems like the reason Cien's Cero went off into space was because Roca used her Negacion threads to deflect it.
From looking at the fan summary, Roca seems to dodge and block Cien's Ceros quite a few times, and there seems to be a scene where Kenpachi swings his sword at one of Cien's Ceros (now, this is a summary, so I don't have a lot of context or description of what's happening).
Didn't Zaraki only fight Cien at 60%? I remember the fight was cut short after Cien reached 100% and Zaraki's eye patch fell off. Rooka then defeated Cien.
She's heavily injured after attacking Yammy, so this doesn't work as anti feat
He's off guard, so doesn't work as a anti feat
Bankai Toshiro was off screen losing to Base Harribel and then gets blitzed
I think they still fought once Cien went 100% and forced Kenpachis eyepatch and bells off, and like I'm 99% sure they glaze each others strength even at this point
From what I saw looking through the summary, no, Kenpachi does fight 100% Cien.
From what I saw in the summary, you are correct.
"...Haha."
Could you post that scan in the translation thread?It took me a while but I was reading the whole thing.
Anyway here:
"...Haha."
Zaraki and Cien glared at each other, their grins widening even further.Laughing, smirking, warping into madness—The very next instant, a massive shockwave seized control of the interior of the Garganta.
The "Gran Rey Cero" unleashed by Cien from his dozens of tentacles had collided head-on with the downward swing of Zaraki’s Zanpakuto.
Exposed to a blast radius so intense it would likely obliterate an average Hollow or Soul Reaper—There was one more person laughing a short distance away.
"Looks like fun, Ken-chan!"
Yachiru, continuously bathed in the secondary and tertiary shockwaves that followed, kept watch over the men standing at the epicenter.A ridiculous, absurd clash of pure power against power that the phrase "match for a thousand men" couldn't even begin to describe—And yet, the young girl watched it all with a bright, steady smile, as if she were simply observing children lost in play in a sandbox back in her hometown.
Zaraki's Zanpakuto swing not only was fast enough to clash with one single Cero, Zaraki reacted fast enough to swing down 12 Cero fused from Cien.
Which Just prove what I have been saying since a day, If zaraki wouldn't scale to Cien cero he would be dead since he would not be able to neither dodge or react.
I would advise people to not make things harder than what they are, Bleach is pretty simple, Speed = Power = Reiatsu, it is like Dragon Ball.
Saying Cien cero doesn't scale to anyone, is legit non-sense.
@Dalesean027 @Nierre
Now something like this, is what I was asking for, this is much better evidence and should've been included in the OP to begin with
