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Bleach Revisions

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>>Yammy only gets 10 times stronger after he uses his Resurrection
If databook says so then sure, we use 10 times multi for his first Resurrection if there are no contradiction to this, like we are using info from databook for his Rage form.
2x multi from rage form isn't stated anywhere in manga.
 
Yeah this will be tripost...
Urahara, Shunko Armored Yoruichi and Isshin scale to Aizen, idk if they will scale to Chrysalis because Chrysalis Aizen only troling around and they never really damage him
all they did was damage his outer layer of coocon thinggy

Gin. Gin have like 10 times multi with Buto Renjin. he scale to whaever hollow ichigo scale to since hes in canon beat him. However for post Chrysalis Aizen.
At that time aizen isn't trying to fight and clearly letting his guard down, beside at this point Aizen is super arrogant

I disagree with Zaraki and Byakuya scale to SE if you only using this they scale to Yammy who scales above SE
Right now the scaling for Rage form Yammy is, he will scale to FKTA Aizen, litettly the same level at him
who is funnily enough contradict with What Aizen Says about him superior to Espada.

Wonderweiss is super weird, but it pretty clear as day he's no match for Yama. Like he will die in 1 punch if not for his regen, i don't think he scale.
Although Res Wonderweiss himself scale to nobody, like no one fighting him in his Res other than Yama and maybe Kensei who probably lost the fight due to we dont see him around and we know he fighting Wonderweiss in base form. Its not a big deal for Wonderweiss to scale to Yama, not really affecting anyone.
 
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Aizen and Yama and the other who scale to them shouldn't be brought here because base Aizen was still above tokinada so no need to discuss there scaling here
 
The_mysterious_man said:
Aizen and Yama and the other who scale to them shouldn't be brought here because base Aizen was still above tokinada so no need to discuss there scaling here
Click to expand...
This is actually really dumb scaling, why tokinada has higher Tier than Yama and Aizen, or why Base Bazz B have higher Tier than Yama
Tokinada stated hes inferior to base Aizen and Yama while Bazz B only partially cancel yama flames (he still took damage from it)
 
Damage3245 said:
My biggest issue is that both the Yammy statements and the Aizen scaling depend on both of those characters knowing about Ulquiorra's secret 2nd Resureccion and are comparing themselves to it.

Despite the fact that from Ulquiorra's point of view, his hidden transformation is a big secret that he hasn't even shown it to Aizen, his boss, yet.

Aizen is not completely all-knowing. He could consider himself superior to all of the Espada and still not know about Ulquiorra's 2nd transformation.

Also, don't the databooks have some other statements like how Yammy only gets 10 times stronger after he uses his Resureccion? Do we accept that the gap between an unreleased Yammy and a released Starrk or R2 Ulquiorra is less than ten times?
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The Yammy statements some of them are from a narrator in the case of databooks. Also, we are never told that the rankings for the Espada only apply to their base and Res forms, I don't know where that came from. So while you can argue SE Ulq isn't bound by the rankings that's an assumption.

Gin says Aizen only successfully ruled over the Arrancar because he was stronger. Aizen being one of the smartest characters in the entire series, believes himself to be well above the Espada. When Aizen says all of Ichigo battles played out in the palm of his hands, we are shown an image of SE Ulq, which implies Aizen knew about Ulq's true power. To say Aizen didn't know about SE, would imply that Ulquiorra could pull a fast one over Aizen. I feel like you need stronger evidence to say SE Ulq > Aizen. Considering how we've displayed a plethora of statements and images that imply Aizen > SE Ulq, and your argument is "maybe Aizen didn't know how strong SE Ulq is" I feel like most if not everyone agrees with me that Aizen > Espadas. The anime even goes as far to say Aizen > all Espadas combined iirc. Everyone with the colored boxes under their names that have weighed in except you also seems to agree Aizen > Espada.

Aizen's narrative is that of attaining a power that defies all logic and reason. So the narrative supports Aizen > Espada as well.

Being that Yammy's Res being only 10x is contradicted by the manga, I'd think we'd invalidate that databook statement as we approach databook statements case by case.
 
Btw you guys arguing 50% Hollow Mask Bankai = Can barely hurt R1 Yammy
Yammy get additional 2X multi in his rage form and he still power up after that via getting more angry (he become bigger)
100% Hollow Mask Bankai = Can hurt FKTA Aizen
So FKTA Aizen will be equal to rage form Yammy
Yet also arguing that FKTA Aizen is superior to all Espada? so which one is true?
 
MachTwo said:
Btw you guys arguing 50% Hollow Mask Bankai = Can barely hurt R1 Yammy
Yammy get additional 2X multi in his rage form and he still power up after that via getting more angry (he become bigger)
100% Hollow Mask Bankai = Can hurt FKTA Aizen
So FKTA Aizen will be equal to rage form Yammy
Yet also arguing that FKTA Aizen is superior to all Espada? so which one is true?
Click to expand...
50% Hollow Mask Ichigo knocked Yammy to the ground, released his Hollow Mask because he was depressed, and then got smacked by Yammy.

Also FKT Aizen > 100% Hollow Mask Ichigo.

So Aizen > 100% Hollow Mask Ichigo >= Angry Res Yammy > the rest of the Espada, therefore Aizen > the Espada.
 
50% Hollow Mask Ichigo barely hurt Res 1 Yammy
100% Hollow Mask hurt Aizen for good
Also, you said 30% Cien = Rage form Yammy
So basically Cien scale above, same goes for Zaraki when he fight Cien
 
MachTwo said:
50% Hollow Mask Ichigo barely hurt Res 1 Yammy
100% Hollow Mask hurt him for good
Also, you said 30% Cien = Rage form Yammy
So basically Cien scale above, same goes for Zaraki when he fight Cien
Click to expand...
100% Hollow Mask Ichigo never fought Yammy.

50% Hollow Mask Ichigo knocked Yammy off his feet, and only got smacked after releasing the mask.

Also 30% Cien = Angry Res Yammy got debunked.
 
I never said 100% Hollow Mask Ichigo fought Yammy.
50% Hollow Mask Ichigo fire getsuga at yammy and it barely hurt Res 1 Yammy. Rage form Yammy is 2x Res yammy
100% Hollow Mask Ichigo fire getsuga at Aizen and he hurt him pretty bad.

About Cien, Why? you waiting for translation? if so ok then.
 
@MachTwo; it's worth noting that Aizen, unlike Yammy, doesn't have Hierro to protect him.

It is possible for Aizen to be more powerful than Yammy yet be unable to take a hit from Ichigo as well as him.
 
MachTwo said:
I never said 100% Hollow Mask Ichigo fought Yammy.
50% Hollow Mask Ichigo fire getsuga at yammy and it barely hurt Res 1 Yammy
100% Hollow Mask Ichigo fire getsuga at Aizen and he hurt him pretty bad.

About Cien, Why? you waiting for translation? if so ok then.
Click to expand...
Purgy debunked the Cien thing.

The size of the wound on Yammy is technically larger than the one on Aizen lol. Yammy is just massive.

Hollows also have some speedy regen.
 
Yes, but that defeat the purpose of him saying he's superior to all of them
He's not really if yammy have higher durability than him, that and you can use Hierro to attack since it harder their skin
maybe wont scale as much of their dura but that was an option.

@Arc7Kuroi Yes but Yammy is much bigger than Aizen, proportionally he's receive lesser wound
Cien, this is what he say:
Yammy was never said to be equal to 30% Cien, just that 30% Cien was above Yammy
 
MachTwo said:
Yes, but that defeat the purpose of him saying he's superior to all of them
He's not really if yammy have higher durability than him, that and you can use Hierro to attack since it harder their skin
maybe wont scale as much of their dura but that was an option.

@Arc7Kuroi Yes but Yammy is much bigger than Aizen, proportionally he's receive lesser wound
Cien, this is what he say:
Yammy was never said to be equal to 30% Cien, just that 30% Cien was above Yammy
Click to expand...
But the size of Ichigo's attack didn't change, the wound size would only be comparable if the size of the attack against Yammy was proportionally the same as the one against Aizen.

Base Bankai Ichigo blocked a swing from Res Yammy. Ichigo also claims he can crush Yammy with raw strength and Ichigo is quite the capable sensory boy.
 
Base Bankai Ichigo blocked a swing from Res Yammy. Ichigo also claims he can crush Yammy with raw strength and Ichigo is quite the capable sensory boy.

Yes, i agree, never disagree with it what I am confused is how hollow bankai Ichigo cant do much damage to him, I mean i have an asnwer for that
And also Zaraki and Byakuya have no issue with hurting Yammy, so they scale above Aizen too in AP.
 
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MachTwo said:
Yes, i agree, never disagree with it what I am confused is how hollow bankai Ichigo cant do much damage to him, I mean i have an asnwer for that
And also Zaraki and Byakuya have no issue with hurting Yammy, so they scale above Aizen too in AP.
Click to expand...
Ichigo didn't have a hard time with Yammy, he literally slammed Yammy into the ground extremely casually.

I mean Aizen was cautious of Kenpachi and Bankai Byakuya scales to Kenpachi but they wouldn't scale above Aizen for beating Yammy.

I'm going to redrop the scaling chain list since we have started a new page lol.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Ichigo didn't have a hard time with Yammy, he literally slammed Yammy into the ground extremely casually.

I mean Aizen was cautious of Kenpachi and Bankai Byakuya scales to Kenpachi but they wouldn't scale above Aizen for beating Yammy.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah Nnoitra have better Hierro than Yammy, and hes human size, He scale above Aizen in DF?
Not much superior to all Espada when there are 2 dude harder to damage than you.
 
>>Ichigo didn't have a hard time with Yammy, he literally slammed Yammy into the ground extremely casually.
He barerly injure him according to Yammy. also do you Agree Nnoitra have better DF than Aizen or not?
 
@Arc7Kuroi; the characters you've listed, are you sure they're the only ones scaling? What about anyone post-timeskip?
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Damage wanted a list of people affected and for what reason, from what I gathered here they are part 2:
  • Res Yammy and Angry Res Yammy (multiple databook, novel, and manga statements saying he's stronger than SE Ulq, survived a Getsuga from Post res Hollow Mask Ichigo at half power) Damage disagrees but Shadow and Mitch (I think are staff members) seem to agree along with everyone else
  • Aizen (stronger than all the Espada) Damage disagrees but Shadow and Mitch (I think are staff members) agree along with everyone else
  • Post resurrection Hollow Mask Ichigo (damaged Yammy at half power, damaged Aizen at full power) Ichigo overwhelmed Yammy and cut Aizen (albeit Aizen said he had his guard down)
  • Bankai Gin (Ichigo needed to Hollowify to block Gin's attack) I want to say someone agreed
  • Isshin (pushed Aizen to his limits) I believe someone agreed
  • Urahara (damaged Chrysalis Aizen) Either someone agreed or was neutral
  • Yoruichi with the armor and shunko (damaged Chrysalis Aizen) Same as Urahara
  • Kenpachi (defeated Yammy while arguing with Byakuya, Aizen was cautious of Kenpachi's power as per a databook iirc) If Yammy passes he passes
  • Byakuya (defeated Yammy while arguing with Kenpachi) If Yammy passes he passes
  • Shikai Yamamoto (tussled with Aizen, Aizen wasn't sure if he could beat Yama with conventional means) Shikai Yama definitively scales to Aizen lol
  • Res Wonderweiss, maybe (scratched and bruised Yama with a barrage of punches) Someone disagreed I think
  • 50% Full Hollow Ichigo (part of the calc) Uh nuff said
  • Segunda Etapa Ulquiorra (part of the calc) Um no comment
Click to expand...
  • Lost Agent Byakuya (as strong as before at least)
  • Tsukishima (fought Byakuya)
  • Lost Agent Kenpachu (at least as strong as before)
  • Lost Agent Ichigo (fought Tsukishima)
  • Ginjo (fought Ichigo)
Bolded = overwhelming support, unbolded = needs more discussion or has had no discussion

In case it's not obvious these are people potentially scaling to the SE Ulq FH Ichigo cero clash calc.
 
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Byakuya Scale with his general stats, as of right now, his base bankai didn't gave him more AP. only more Blade but those blade isn't become sharper.
 
Oh yeah Nnoitra will scale with his durability if you go by this. Manga/Databook, he has the best Hierro.
 
Pretty sure we didn't go by that rule? like Zommari is the fastest but he pretty shit in reiatsu (Byakuya noted this)
 
That was their main defensive capabilities, you can said the same for Sonido, they can move without Sonido but their fastest movement will utilized Sonido.
Zommari is the fastest and Nnoitra is the heardest to break if you do by Databook and Manga.
 
Doesn't change the fact that Hierro isn't the only thing that determines dura, so strongest Hierro in a vacuum doesn't feel sufficient enough to say his dura > every Espada.
 
...Did someone say that Ulquiorra saying there are people ranked above him does not equal strength? When there's like...A bunch of times when rank=power? Nnoitora has a big 5 on his tongue and says "I'm stronger than the garbage you just beat". Toshiro saying "As powerful as you are you're only 3?" The blatant Espadas ranked tadda from yadda is power based. How about this. Ulquiorra says three people are above him? Segunda Etapa is supposed to be special? Well? Why say he's strongest Espada when pretty easily said is that he can be stronger than the person who had the worst luck in all Bleach to fight Plot Armor Toshiro aka Halibel... Like...I can accept Ulquiorra being above Halibel when she has the nasty antifeat of fighting Toshiro, who's only feats are fighting Base Yammy and Luppi.
 
Dangai_Ichigo said:
...Did someone say that Ulquiorra saying there are people ranked above him does not equal strength? When there's like...A bunch of times when rank=power? Nnoitora has a big 5 on his tongue and says "I'm stronger than the garbage you just beat". Toshiro saying "As powerful as you are you're only 3?" The blatant Espadas ranked tadda from yadda is power based. How about this. Ulquiorra says three people are above him? Segunda Etapa is supposed to be special? Well? Why say he's strongest Espada when pretty easily said is that he can be stronger than the person who had the worst luck in all Bleach to fight Plot Armor Toshiro aka Halibel... Like...I can accept Ulquiorra being above Halibel when she has the nasty antifeat of fighting Toshiro, who's only feats are fighting Base Yammy and Luppi.
Click to expand...
As I said this above, Ulquiorra said that to make ichigo feels despair, context in here is:
Ichigo be like, oh you are the strongest espada, if i beat you then I'm stronger than all espada, Ulquiorra then show his numbers to shatter his spirits
He also do this with his SE, Ulquiorra in his Res1 is already Far stronger than Ichigo, he can easily beat him and wont even need to use SE
But when Ichigo still dont want to gave up, he show his SE just to make ichigo lose hope
Its mind game, thats all there it to it

Btw what do you think about Zommari Sunido/Nnoitra hierro?
 
That does not make Ulquiorra a liar. He's a non believer or a nihilist, in neither one of his interactions did he ever show the ability to lie, if anything he will be always be brutally honest to really sink in the idea that nothing will ever work. He's trying to make Ichigo feel despair yes but that does not mean he will use lies for it when the truth is already enough especially when he sees Ichigo climbing up to his level and he's getting increasingly frustrated with Ichigo to the point of using SE. He did that to drive a point cause Ichigo was already making Ulquiorra break his calm facade it's "Why doesn't he get it is useless to do That?" Ulquiorra sees no values in which he can't see, lies are merely things that do not exist so why would he use them?
 
MachTwo said:
As I said this above, Ulquiorra said that to make ichigo feels despair, context in here is:
Ichigo be like, oh you are the strongest espada, if i beat you then I'm stronger than all espada, Ulquiorra then show his numbers to shatter his spirits
He also do this with his SE, Ulquiorra in his Res1 is already Far stronger than Ichigo, he can easily beat him and wont even need to use SE
But when Ichigo still dont want to gave up, he show his SE just to make ichigo lose hope
Its mind game, thats all there it to it

Btw what do you think about Zommari Sunido/Nnoitra hierro?
Click to expand...
I merely interpret as they have the most developed technique. Zommari can basically create clones for instance
 
Alright then, so they won't scale above higher espada. Zommari won't be the fastest espada and Nnoitra don't have the strongest durability.
 
MachTwo said:
Alright then, so they won't scale above higher espada. Zommari won't be the fastest espada and Nnoitra don't have the strongest durability.
Click to expand...
Well Not necessarily...What happens is that yes Zommari compared to all the Espada has the best Sonido, Nnoitora has the best Hierro. It's something that their proud of. Just like how Ulquiorra has the best regeneration...Which means the Espada have just terrible regen...
 
Not really, All espada have regen but they can choose to sacrifice their regen for power. Ulquiorra keep his Regen, other is probably dont care with regen.
Anyway I stop here.
 
This thread looking good. Y'all keep up the good work with these revisions. It's funny because you guys and these revisions are living rent free in so many peoples head.
 
Resurrection Yammy > Ulquiorra Primera Etapa

1. Ulquiorra tells Ichigo that there are three Espadas stronger than himself. Not four.
2. Ulquiorra says that his most amazing ability isn't his offensive power but his regeneration ability.
3. We have the statements about Yammy been stronger than Ulquiorra from the manga where the author drew first form Ulquiorra, databook doesn't mentioned Segunda Etapa and I don't know about the novel statement.
4. Ichigo's new mask power boost was equaled if not stronger than Vasto Lorde form. At less than half power he was able to knock Yammy around with ease while holding back. During his fight with Aizen it was confirmed Ichigo was afraid of the weight in his reiatsu. The feel of the reiatsu was heavy like the Vasto Lorde form. He was able to use this new mask to fight White with the Vasto Lorde form fused with Quincy Zangetsu into a more powerful version. for months And this Vasto Lorde version of White was at 100% power compare to when he fought Ulquiorra because of his missing clothes.
5. Ichigo was able to harm and cut Base Aizen who one shot Hallibel.

The whole reveal of Yammy been Espada 0 was to make a statement about Ichigo's new found power. Aizen knew about Segunda Etapa since he left Ulquiorra there and told Ichigo that he knew of the new power he found against Ulquiorra. A statement to show Ichigo was ready to fight Aizen.
 
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