Bleach revision for 5-B characters

[AppleLord]

Continuation from here.

FACTS remain undebunked:

The collapse of souls and worlds collapsing are shown to work one-way multiple times.

Yhwach's method at the end is shown to work in a different way and has his reiatsu present at the scene. Guilty.

Now can someone debunk what's shown on the scans, and prove how these two events are connected?

Because they are clearly not related at all, there's a difference between things collapsing on their own and a wave of energy doing it.

There's also no canon evidence that Yhwach could "disturb the souls" while he is alive, the first event is only caused when the Soul King dies.

And Yhwach's goal was this.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Wandenreich=785 Pixels=182,337.306397306 m. Meteor=506 Pixels=117,532.072658645 m. Meteor Radius=58,766.0363293228 m. Volume of meteor=8.50095676E14 m^3. Density of meteor=3000 kg/m^3. Mass=Volume×Density Mass of meteor=2550287028000000000 kg. As for the velocity of the meteor:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_gHFgdA_7...5rb-EwPFqyA78u9b2K5zogCHM/s16000/0574-008.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-sbWPXNfWp...xXH-1hPuX4E_F98zH6NRwgCHM/s16000/0575-016.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FJUmJ0bld...iSRnAR8jbnbsj26m8U3K8gCHM/s16000/0578-007.png

As you can see, Gremmy's creations are all identical to their IRL counterparts and behave in such manner. The meteor he created shouldn't be any different. Velocity=11,000 m/s KE=1.54292365194E26 Joules 36.876760323613765991 Petatons of TNT Multi-Continent level


Is this the outdated version of Gremmy's meteor ? Just asking

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

This is not mine

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Wrong.

First: Stop the obnoxious music.

Second:



People are assuming "Destruction" automatically means planet bust, whereas statements from arc 1 back up the fact that Yhwach was attempting to destroy worlds by disrupting the flow of souls to make them collapse into one another.
This has literally been stated again, and again and again.

I mean with the logic behind this every Shinigami is now capable of Planetary output because they can all disrupt the flow of souls.

 

[TataHakai]

Is this the outdated version of Gremmy's meteor ? Just asking

Yeah it is, New accepted version is Country level

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Okay thank you

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"Now can someone debunk what's shown on the scans, and prove how these two events are connected?"

The first scan literally is just showing a low-level earthquake which the novel clarifies was happening across the entire planet. It's a High 6-C feat. Proves absolutely nothing.

"Because they are clearly not related at all, there's a difference between things collapsing on their own and a wave of energy doing it."

What wave of energy? Yhwach was collapsing the worlds by not controlling the flow of souls. It's literally the only way which allows the worlds to collapse into each other in Bleach. He literally says that'll happen.

Speaking of which:

1. The Soul Society and Hueco Mundo aren't Planets.

2. The collapse isn't literal celestial bodies crashing into each other. It's a merge of their realities into a thing. They wouldn't literally be destroyed.

3. It's not instant making it not a 5-B feat.

It's not a 5-B feat.

 

[M11UTD]

lol at chain-reaction, that happened when the SK was gone and the world was shaking, what Yhwach was doning is completely different, it's like people never read the series and only copy-paste others argument.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

I see that this is gonna take a while and hey why does Ichigo has his Completed Fullbring in his stats but not in the images ? If it's because you guys don't have one



Just need to render it

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

lol at chain-reaction, that happened when the SK was gone and the world was shaking, what Yhwach was doning is completely different, it's like people never read the series and only copy-paste others argument.

No, it is a chain reaction. It wasn't completely different. You guys just say it is without proof.

Basic Occam's Razor here:

1. World collapsing is a chain-reaction from a lack of balance in the flow of souls.

2. Yhwach becomes Soul King and worlds start collapsing,.

Conclusion: Yhwach wasn't keeping the balance so the worlds would collapse.

 

[AppleLord]

"It's pointless to bring up because I'd just be repeating myself. I debunk it in the paragraph beneath addressing the second scan."

You may think you did but more people disagree with you.

"It obviously wasn't literally nothingness unless you believe that Yhwach is Multi-Universal and that the previous Soul King existed since the dawn of time."

Maybe or maybe not. It can also be an outlier, and for someone who gives the power to name everything and the functions in the afterlife what gives.

"Obviously not fated, but the worlds would be destroyed by Yhwach not maintaining the balance. This is obvious once you actually factor the Bleach cosmology."

That's not written in the cosmology.

"Their Reiatsu are comparable. That is literally the argument you use for Ichigo and Aizen. For one to be a Soul King they need to have a certain level of Reiatsu to be able to maintain the balance of the flow of souls."

I meant the physical wave of reiatsu.

"It's again basic logic."

Your logic =/= canon source.

"The Soul King is kept as a corpse."

Yes.

"The previous one was, Yhwach's corpse was."

Okay.

"They cannot think as a corpse, obviously, and their Reiatsu is used only to keep the balance."

How do you explain Ichibei talking to it and receiving powers from him as well as the other zero division members? How did the zero squad members know that the Soul King took a liking to Ichigo without been conscious? Why did it "die" by Ichigo's hands if he is supposed to be "dead" in the first place? I'll wait for more on your headcanon.

"By absorbing the Soul King's power and becoming the new Soul King, but not being kept in stasis, Yhwach could wield that power for other things. Which is why he was so powerful."

There's no evidence of him wielding the power for other things. More headcanon.

[So you admit that he wasn't "disturbing the flow of souls" because he isn't the Soul King? As we clearly saw he was using his energy.]

"Not what I said. At all."

Yes, you did.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Is this the outdated version of Gremmy's meteor ? Just asking

Yeah it is, New accepted version is Country level

Which would downgrade the High 6-A feat as it is based on outdated calc.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

What kind of conclusion is that Matthew ? Also you have the same name as me

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Stuff you need to prove to get 5-B Bleach:

1. Soul Society and Hueco Mundo are planets (No proof)

2. Yhwach would have literally blow up the planets / make them crash (No proof, actually counter-proof)

3. Yhwach would have done this in one shot (Objectively false, or else the last arc wouldn't have a plot)

4. The Soul King keeping the worlds from collapsing is an AP feat and not a chain-reaction feat (Objective proof of the later)

As it stands, 5-B Bleach is based on a deliberate misinterpretation which ignores the Bleach Verse's mechanics and cosmology in favor of upgrading characters who do a chain-reaction.

 

[Dark649]

The problem is, i do not think Yhwach and Reio dead bodies are 5-B phisically and they are able to sustain the realms.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

They obviously aren't. What is it, a 7-C Ichigo cut the Reio's body?

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Wait we only scaled the Vanderich, the Sereitei, the Soul Palace and Gremmy's meteor but have we ever scaled the size of the city Yhwach's city because that thing is way bigger than the Soul Palace




Uh how big is one sea ?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Apple

More people agree with me, actually.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Reading the scans, I agree with Matt.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Guys I'm asking how big is one sea and how big is the thing that Yhwach created

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Uh how big is one sea ?

Not all seas are created equal lol. It is evidence that Soul Society is probably the size of a continent which is the most consistent depiction. Given the number of districts and how crowded the place is.

 

[Schnee_One]

Gargoyle throws his agreement

 

[Dark649]

They obviously aren't. What is it, a 7-C Ichigo cut the Reio's body?

He was at least 6-B, likely higher.

 

[M11UTD]

lol at chain-reaction, that happened when the SK was gone and the world was shaking, what Yhwach was doning is completely different, it's like people never read the series and only copy-paste others argument.

No, it is a chain reaction. It wasn't completely different. You guys just say it is without proof.
Basic Occam's Razor here:

1. World collapsing is a chain-reaction from a lack of balance in the flow of souls.

2. Yhwach becomes Soul King and worlds start collapsing,.

Conclusion: Yhwach wasn't keeping the balance so the worlds would collapse.

lol what ? there was black energy appeared when Yhwach killed the Soul King ? or was SS and the living world shaking in the final fight against Yhwach like it did after killing the Soul King ? are we reading the same bleach manga here ? they were completely different.

 

[AppleLord]

What wave of energy? Yhwach was collapsing the worlds by not controlling the flow of souls. It's literally the only way which allows the worlds to collapse into each other in Bleach. He literally says that'll happen.

Reiatsu =/= flow of souls which we don't even know if a Soul King can use willingly without head canon.

EVIDENCE AGAINTS @MATT ARGUMENTS= https://imgur.com/a/MHbXW

Ichigo isn't part of the flow of souls. He was been damage by Yhwach's reiatsu while Yhwach was destroying them.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

So if a recently pre-Royal Guard training (Because Ichigo actually trained with them) Ichigo's sword has a reiatsu that's so hot that you need an entire sea for it, what does that make him ?

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Just out of curiosity

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

even I think 6-B+ for EOS Ichigo seems a bit low, that's why I was asking how big the gap is between 6-B and High 6-B if there are no calcs that put them higher than 6-B, then the god tiers could potentially be High 6-B if the gap isn't that huge.

 

[AppleLord]

Reading the scans, I agree with Matt.

You do know Matt is using head-canon. He claims is the same event, yet he can't debunk or show evidence that Yhwach can willingly use a power only shown when a Soul King dies. Saying he can when there's no evidence and more counter evidence is head-canon.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"lol what ? there was black energy appeared when Yhwach killed the Soul King ? or was SS and the living world shaking in the final fight against Yhwach like it did after killing the Soul King ? are we reading the same bleach manga here ? they were completely different."

They are not completely different. If you are speaking of the Black energy in that scan there's no proof that would literally consume the three worlds.

Also: Yhwach's goal is completely opposite to destroying the three worlds and leaving nothing in their wake.

https://file-image.mpcdn.net/19563/954074/18.jpg?1513901977

https://file-image.mpcdn.net/19563/954074/19.jpg?1513901977

See?

He wanted to make one world where there would be no difference between life and the afterlife, ending mortality. If he literally destroyed everything there'd be no world where people would live and he'd destroy his own goal.

 

[M11UTD]

like everything shown in the manga debunked what you just said, you're using 2 different things to make a failed point.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Apple

The scans you posted have yet to debunk anything.

Ichigo in the manga doesn't scale to Yhwach. He only did everything once Yhwach was depowered:

https://file-image.mpcdn.net/19563/946823/12.jpg?1513901989

https://file-image.mpcdn.net/19563/946823/13.jpg?1513901989

 

[Ezeriot]

Zanka no Tachi (which Yhwach has) has similar statements of being able to destroy the Soul Society. Soul King Yhwach is simply a cut above those tiers of statements, with his very own power.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Zanka no Tachi (which Yhwach has) has similar statements of being able to destroy the Soul Society. Soul King Yhwach is simply a cut above those tiers of statements, with his very own power.

In the past threads it was agreed with that statement not being reliable.

 

[Dark649]

even I think 6-B+ for EOS Ichigo seems a bit low, that's why I was asking how big the gap is between 6-B and High 6-B if there are no calcs that put them higher than 6-B, then the god tiers could potentially be High 6-B if the gap isn't that huge.

Unless there is a High 6-B feat, we can't powerscale like that.

 

[AppleLord]

"lol what ? there was black energy appeared when Yhwach killed the Soul King ? or was SS and the living world shaking in the final fight against Yhwach like it did after killing the Soul King ? are we reading the same bleach manga here ? they were completely different."
They are not completely different. If you are speaking of the Black energy in that scan there's no proof that would literally consume the three worlds.

Also: Yhwach's goal is completely opposite to destroying the three worlds and leaving nothing in their wake.

https://file-image.mpcdn.net/19563/954074/18.jpg?1513901977

https://file-image.mpcdn.net/19563/954074/19.jpg?1513901977

See?

He wanted to make one world where there would be no difference between life and the afterlife, ending mortality. If he literally destroyed everything there'd be no world where people would live and he'd destroy his own goal.

Yeah, after he destroys it:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4dW3e4sxH...hQ9Zc2B4QpjfwzDwqc04DgCHM/s16000/0675-009.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-pInZSe0jG...awz9EKJ3jZihWC8Jhs0qqwCHM/s16000/0680-017.png

 

[M11UTD]

"lol what ? there was black energy appeared when Yhwach killed the Soul King ? or was SS and the living world shaking in the final fight against Yhwach like it did after killing the Soul King ? are we reading the same bleach manga here ? they were completely different."
They are not completely different. If you are speaking of the Black energy in that scan there's no proof that would literally consume the three worlds.

Also: Yhwach's goal is completely opposite to destroying the three worlds and leaving nothing in their wake.

https://file-image.mpcdn.net/19563/954074/18.jpg?1513901977

https://file-image.mpcdn.net/19563/954074/19.jpg?1513901977

See?

He wanted to make one world where there would be no difference between life and the afterlife, ending mortality. If he literally destroyed everything there'd be no world where people would live and he'd destroy his own goal.

I don't see how is this relevant to what I said or to the different between what happened when the Soul King died and when Yhwach tried to destroy the world.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

They would be destroyed by becoming one. Not by literally exploding / shattering.

 

[AppleLord]

@Apple
The scans you posted have yet to debunk anything.

Ichigo in the manga doesn't scale to Yhwach. He only did everything once Yhwach was depowered:

https://file-image.mpcdn.net/19563/946823/12.jpg?1513901989

https://file-image.mpcdn.net/19563/946823/13.jpg?1513901989

What is there to debunk? You're suppose to debunk it, not me. It proof Yhwach was using his reitasu very different from the earthquake scenario when the souls are disturb.

 

[Galiel_Elisaie]

Ok here is the thing.Disruption of souls would cause collapse of The universe.


Yhwach on the other hand was not going to destroy the universe by disrupting flow of Souls.That can be seen from scans given in previous posts, he was going to merge three worlds after he destroys them.Some would argue that even though these scans prove that imbalance of souls was going to destroy universe Yhwach was with it just going to destroy three planets.Ok even if they were right how was then Yhwach going to recreate those worlds?After worlds are collapsed they can't be recreated by simple flow of souls, they need to be physically put together.So here is my theory Yhwach was not going to destroy worlds by creating imbalance, imbalance causes collapse of the universe not just three planets, and then recreate it/merge them physically.So even if you argue that he was going to destroy them by creating imbalance you can't argue that creating balance again would physically recreate the worlds.