Bleach pre-timeskip

[KuuIchigo]

So something has been bothering me about how we don't scale some of their post-timeskip stats to their pre-timeskip stats when some of them clearly didn't train or grow in power.

Ex: Lieutenants like Nemu being faster than Yamamoto and how most of the Senior Captains being stronger while not showing any training at all.

So I think we should scale their post-timeskip to their pre-timeskip.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Yeah, this makes sense but it will eventually be brought up for other verses and it might cause a mess. I think it has been brought up before but it was probably because timeskips constitute random jumps in power so it was not accepted.

 

[KuuIchigo]

It seems as though it only applies to Bleach. Looking at the OP upgrades Ace and everyone from before is 6-B and MHS+ even though he has died. That 6-B feat is from a completely different arc and I believe that the OP time-skip are far longer than Bleach's.

So either they get back to the ratings from before or Bleach gets scaled.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

I agree with kuus reasoning for reasons above.

 

[LordXcano]

This makes sense to me.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Well, I can no longer agree to keep their speed separate, either. I only enforced it because I thought it was a set principle/Standard for the wiki but evidently it is not. Lieutenants (mid tiers) being faster than the top tiers of the pre time skip is pretty silly looking, rationally speaking

 

[AllanSaiyan]

This seems reasonable to me.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Hmm, I saw something like this being refused for Naruto but since it got accepted for One Piece, it can happen for Bleach too. I mean, who doesn't find the idea of PePe blitzing Yamamoto funny?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

This seems reasonable

 

[Amlad22]

This is finally getting accepted? Nice to see that more people are behind the idea.

 

[Kanika-emo]

No

 

[RadicalMrR]

This is actually something ive been thinking about for some time, I agree.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

I've been wanting for this to happen for a while now.

We should also really remove the separate keys for old characters like Yamamoto, Unohana, Kyoraku, Ukitake, etc. since they stayed pretty much the same throughout. In fact, Yamamoto even got weaker over time as noted by Yhwach. So there is absolutely no way post time-skip Yamamoto should have higher AP and 100 times the speed of his pre time-skip self. It defies all logic.

 

[Amlad22]

I agree completely, there is so much proof for pre timeskip = post timeskip for multiple characters.

 

[Joseph619]

Lieutenant being faster than Captain is silly. Nemu wouldn't get faster than Yammaoto if she trained a thousand years.

The power creep logic doesn't apply to Bleach because certain characters, the older captains, never ever train. Yamamoto and the 500 year+ old captains are more likely to regress than get faster during timeskip

 

[Joseph619]

Hmm, I saw something like this being refused for Naruto but since it got accepted for One Piece, it can happen for Bleach too. I mean, who doesn't find the idea of PePe blitzing Yamamoto funny?

The thing is in Naruto most major characters are young and they get stronger over time. But in Bleach the older captains haven't trained even once for hundreds of years. Yamamoto even got weaker as noted by Yhwach. Just like Onoki got weaker in Naruto. You can compare the old captains to Onoki

 

[Soldier_Blue]

They're 2000+ years old actually.

 

[Joseph619]

They're 2000+ years old actually.

And on the wiki we're supposed to believe these old folks who have never trained in eons got faster somehow in just 2 years. I don't think we can even use reverse scaling issue in this case since power creep is not a factor

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

I don't really have a problem anymore, while arguments can be made for both sides i begin to agree a little more with this.

If this gets accepted other verses should recieve the same treatement.(Examples that come in mind: Fairy Tail and Naruto).

 

[Joseph619]

I don't have problem with this for any verse which has old characters that don't train, since they're not going to be affected by power creep.

 

[KuuIchigo]

@Gwyn: That is fine with me. I only brought it up because looking at the recent OP upgrades, characters like Ace were also upgraded even though the feat was from a completely different arc.

Edit: If this does get accepted, I'll still wait for your revisions first before changing stuff because it might conflict and cause confusions. If that is all right with you?

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

@KuuIchigo My revisions aren't going to happen soon since i barely have to time to be here.So it would be probably for the best to edit the profiles like there aren't going to be any revisions.

 

[KuuIchigo]

Alright. If this gets accepted, I'll probably make a seperate thread to discuss who scales to what.

Edit: By the way, do you have an idea as to when you think you'll be able to finish the revisions? You don't need to rush. Just curious.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

Easter or Summer vacations probably.

 

[KuuIchigo]

Cool.

 

[Antvasima]

I also think that this seems reasonable.

 

[Amlad22]

@KuuIchigo

Scaling should be pretty easy. Basically the senior captains, Aizen, Starrk, Ulquiorra, Full Hollow Ichigo, Urahara and maybe Gin, Isshin or Yoruichi could all scale.

It could also be debated that because of this upgrade, Aizen's evolved forms could be upgraded to large mountain level or small island level since it wouldn't make sense for Base Aizen to be in the same tier as Transcendent Aizen.

I could see it going like this if change goes through

Base Aizen: Mountain level (superior to Shunsui)

Chrsylias Aizen: Large Mountain level (gained reiatsu far superior to standard spiritual beings)

Butterfly Aizen: island level (casually vaporized mountains with simple sword slashes)

 

[LlamaGod1411]

If I'm not wrong, when I asked about some Naruto Timeskip feat, it wasn't really considered for the reason of a Timeskip.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

It's better to create a thread though. And I've seen in various places that those weren't mountains so maybe it can be calculated? Also, I made a case on why a version of Aizen should be Small Country scaling from Byakuya but I don't remember why it was refused.

 

[Amlad22]

We have to look at it from author intent, it's similar to Yhwach. He never destroyed the planets but it was made clear by Kubo that he could have. The same applies here, they might not have been drawn to the right size but author intent and any logical scaling makes them mountains.

Small country Aizen? That's a bit high, I'm not saying it wouldn't work but I think Byakuya is above him by now after his royal training.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

If I'm not wrong, when I asked about some Naruto Timeskip feat, it wasn't really considered for the reason of a Timeskip.

Yeah, but it can now be done for other verses. I mean, pretty much all of the Konoha 11 are MHS scaling from Base Naruto. It's funny to imagine Shikamaru blitzing Hiruzen or Pre Timeskip Orochimaru. Not possible.

 

[Joseph619]

If I'm not wrong, when I asked about some Naruto Timeskip feat, it wasn't really considered for the reason of a Timeskip.

Yeah, but it can now be done for other verses. I mean, pretty much all of the Konoha 11 are MHS scaling from Base Naruto. It's funny to imagine Shikamaru blitzing Hiruzen or Pre Timeskip Orochimaru. Not possible.

Yeah old guys like Hiruzen and Orochimaru need to be upgraded, Hiruzen certainly didn't get any faster as a reanimation

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

We have to look at it from author intent, it's similar to Yhwach. He never destroyed the planets but it was made clear by Kubo that he could have. The same applies here, they might not have been drawn to the right size but author intent and any logical scaling makes them mountains.

Small country Aizen? That's a bit high, I'm not saying it wouldn't work but I think Byakuya is above him by now after his royal training.

I mean, the dude is transcendent. That's why he and Ichigo are sitting at Country level right now. They're scaling from the Country level Shinigami.

 

[LlamaGod1411]

@Joseph, I am probably derailing this thread, but I had posted the very same reasoning that Hiruzen needs to go up. It wasn't considered due to reverse scaling and circular scaling, which brought up the speeds of Genin.

Other than that, I don't see any problems with the thread in question other than whom to upgrade and whom not to upgrade.

 

[Amlad22]

Thats only monster Aizen and Dangai Ichigo, butterfly Aizen still got stomped by Dangai Ichigo. So anything more than island level is very unlikely

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Okay, Butterfly Aizen got stomped by someone that's Country level and he's Mountain level. He should have been vaporized or splattered at the very least. Since Butterfly Aizen is still transcendent, why can't he scale to non transcendents like Byakuya?

Okay, I guess we can leave him like that since we're derailing.

 

[Amlad22]

I agree that we should worry about the senior captains getting upgraded first. After that another thread can be opened discussing the new scaling.

 

[Amlad22]

So what exactly are we waiting on for this upgrade to happen? Almost everyone including LordAizenSama and Gwynbleiddd agree with it. Shouldn't we start with the changes?

 

[Antvasima]

@KuuIchigo & LordAizenSama Are you willing to handle the revisions?

 

[Legion350]

I think this is reasonable.