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Black Panther Movie Discussion Thread

@Natse You're misunderstanding the whole thing. You are correct that T'Challa's shockwave is nowhere near MCB level. Multi-City Block level is only the maximum shockwave he can exert, only under the condition he has absorbed enough energy.
 
Oh, right. It scales to Cap's shield and it cutting Ultron and Iron Man. I thought it scaled to its durability.
 
Black Panther's suit scales to the hitting power of Cap's shield, which was able to damage Ultron and Iron Man. From there, we scale the maximum potential shockwave to that.

I honestly don't agree with an 8-A AP shield as it doesn't make sense why Bucky can catch it without his arm breaking and normal people not instantly dying from it.
 
PIS?

IIRC it was Matthew Schroeder who suggested this 8-A shield rating, I can try to find the original content revision thread.
 
Bucky caching the shield is honestly no different than someone catching a sword. If you wany to call it PIS that Bucky caught it, sure. It's not like MCU is immune to these inconsistencies. But most of its feats are gonna still put it at 8-A.
 
I watched the movie again and I noticed something. When Killmonger shot a grenade at T'Challa, I saw what looked like his suit releasing a shockwave, which didn't look intentional since T'Challa was temporarily incapacitated. Did any of you guys noticed that?
 
When Monger was taking Klaue away? The suit held too much energy and so had a forced release, or so I think. That makes 1 grenade at point blank + 1 grenade launcher as his suit's maximum.
 
Killmongers lines and voice are just......Mmph!

I admit I didn't see it with the best experience since my eyes were hurting so gunshot lights were hell on my eyes, but all in all, movie was great.

And again, those lines from Killmonger are just awesome, honestly wished he lived in the end.
 
Huesito88 said:
Wait he died?
Click to expand...
You haven't watched the movie yet? Sorry, not sorry.

"Bury me in the ocean with my ancestors who jumped from ships, cause they knew death was better than bondage." - Killmonger
 
Gemmysaur said:
When Monger was taking Klaue away? The suit held too much energy and so had a forced release, or so I think. That makes 1 grenade at point blank + 1 grenade launcher as his suit's maximum.
Click to expand...
That would make the suit's maximum power for a shockwave release Small Building Level then.
 
@Gargoyle One if it makes you feel better the Mandarin revived Kill Monger from the dead in the comics, so there is a chance he can come back to the Mcu =P
 
We haven't seen Mandarin yet, and Tony, of which the Mandarin is a villain to, is already at the end of his solo movies.

I'm unsure of how he is even going to appear.
 
Gemmysaur said:
We haven't seen Mandarin yet, and Tony, of which the Mandarin is a villain to, is already at the end of his solo movies.
I'm unsure of how he is even going to appear.
Click to expand...
Well we know that there's two Mandarin's. The fake one in Iron Man 3 and the real one showed in the Iron man 3 Prelude and the short All Hail the King. The main problem is introducing him on a larger scale since most people wouldn't have seen the last two apperances.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Gemmysaur said:
We haven't seen Mandarin yet, and Tony, of which the Mandarin is a villain to, is already at the end of his solo movies.
I'm unsure of how he is even going to appear.
Click to expand...
Well we know that there's two Mandarin's. The fake one in Iron Man 3 and the real one showed in the Iron man 3 Prelude and the short All Hail the King. The main problem is introducing him on a larger scale since most people wouldn't have seen the last two apperances.
Click to expand...
I theorise that, Ben could be an interpretation of mandarins Hong Kong janitor son. That received his rings off his cut off fingers, in an envelope the ages match up approximately. But with spiderman and the fox deal, it's probably uncertain and I'll just ignore it and just say infinity gauntlet usage/flashpoint timeline.

Side note: the armored Adventures design of the Mandarin was awesome. Also its interesting that one could argue for Luke cage being the prototype for black panther.

The third act definitely fell apart and was resolved too quickly/prolonged, especially due to characterisation. And chadwicks character being a plot device unlike in civil war where he was proactive, and try to calmly determine the perpetrator without rushing in to take a side whilst being reasonable, which he was not in this film whatsoever he didn't try and reason with him on go whatsoever or try to give him acceptance he wanted/ restitution.

Also doesn't this film make all wakandan military peak human?!
 
7th Ki'oon said:
>chadwicks
Click to expand...
>and try to calmly determine the perpetrator without rushing i
Bucky: "I didn't kill your father."

T'Challa: "Then why did you run?"

Bucky: "Bruh. You tried to stab me with your kitty claws."
 
Bucky: "I didn't kill your father."

T'Challa: "Then why did you run?"

Bucky: "Bruh. You tried to stab me with your kitty claws."

T'Challa: "Because you killed my father"

Bucky: "I didn't kill your father."

T'Challa: "Then why did you run?"

Bucky: "Bruh. You tried to stab me with your kitty claws."

T'Challa: "Because you killed my father"

...
 
Exactly, T'challa was quite restrained in his pursuit of Bucky, he could done much more extreme measures and claim diplomatic immunity, interviews explicitly state kids and take a side but waits and sees, without him Zemo would've gotten away

He could've scrambled his military to the Winter Soldier base, he even takes bucky in and gives him medical help and he&cap receive political asylum from T'challa. If he was so vengeful/bloodthirsty then could've still just killed Zemo and bucky, anyway.

It will be interesting to see if infinity war has the same contradiction of characterisation.
 
He was mad enough to not give a crap about Bucky trying to explain himself and immediately went for the killshot. That's not restrained at all. If anything, I think it's more T'Challa being too angry to bother his country and therefore decided to take a more personal approach.

Natasha: "Task force will decide who brings in Barnes."

T'Challa: "Don't bother Ms. Romanoff. I'll kill him myself."

By the end of CW, he chilled out after learning of what actually happened. He even preached to Zemo of what he realized at the time when he stopped him from taking the bullet. After that is when he takes Bucky in.

T'Challa: "Justice will come soon enough."

Zemo: "Tell that to the dead."

T'Challa: "The living are not done with you yet."
 
He didn't try to kill any and everyone that stood in his way, when he was pursing Bucky.

Unlike Tony whom was so enraged that he happily imprisoned Cap's supporters and recklessly attacked both Bucky and Cap, for killing his parents despite Bucky not being lucid, where as T'challa recognised this and Zemo's distress was driving, his actions.

Again Bucky, was put in stasis at the end of civil war but apparently cured by the end of black panther, (meaning T'challa believed in him, and that he could be helped) he; in comparison with Eric didn't try to make peace or be diplomatic, it was clear that Eric simply felt wronged, but T'challa never offers him reconciliation or to join the Royal court/live in wakanda. (which he could've perfectly well done by making him a spy, yet he spontaneously berates his elders, over their self imposed isolation/ their methodology was wrong, even though it was only his father's choice to arbitrarily leave behind you one of his Citizens.) Only after their fight (not during!?!) does T'challa try bridge peace with his cousin, after he stabbed him.

Like I said it's inconsistent, T'challa is the plot device so Eric can be an evil villain not radical antagonist that his characterisation should lend him to be! ( especially give the wakandan Weapons to all of the oppressed, like South America not the black disparea of North America/White countries and African people.

T'challa then tries to make further amends by setting the first wakandaian outreach programme in Eric's old neighbourhood, but again he still to kill him instead of impeding him like one of his legs or lower torso.
 
7th Ki'oon said:
He didn't try to kill any and everyone that stood in his way, when he was pursing Bucky.
Click to expand...
They didn't have a hand at killing his dad.

Unlike Tony whom was so enraged that he happily imprisoned Cap's supporters and recklessly attacked both Bucky and Cap, for killing his parents despite Bucky not being lucid, where as T'challa recognised this and Zemo's distress was driving, his actions.

Tony jailed supers who were acting out at the time the Sokovia accords were being pushed by the UN. He only found out about Bucky having a hand at killing his parents when they met in the Winter Soldier base and the only other person there was Cap. The difference is that T'Challa learned that Bucky was innocent of killing his dad, found out who the real culprit is and found the man's motivation for doing so, which he can relate to (family death via supers). Tony learned that Bucky, brainwashed or not, did kill his parents.

T'Challa: "Vengeance has consumed you. It's consuming them. I am done letting it consume me."

Again Bucky, was put in stasis at the end of civil war but apparently cured by the end of black panther, (meaning T'challa believed in him, and that he could be helped) he; in comparison with Eric didn't try to make peace or be diplomatic, it was clear that Eric simply felt wronged, but T'challa never offers him reconciliation or to join the Royal court/live in wakanda. (which he could've perfectly well done by making him a spy, yet he spontaneously berates his elders, over their self imposed isolation/ their methodology was wrong, even though it was only his father's choice to arbitrarily leave behind you one of his Citizens.) Only after their fight (not during!?!) does T'challa try bridge peace with his cousin, after he stabbed him.

He took in Bucky after he learned the truth. He's a good man, just blinded by rage during Civil War. Killmonger, he was crossed between seeing a relative come home, and seeing someone who hungrily wants the throne. Also, it was clear to most everyone that the guy didn't exactly have the best of the country's interests at heart, not to mention afterwards where he declared his primary goal of giving the blacks outside of Wakanda a fighting chance at getting back at their former oppressors. Afterwards, T'Challa didn't exactly get the chance to offer him anything. It was a race against time that led to Killmonger's death. Still, had he been given the chance, he would've welcomed Killmonger to the family, considering he got angry at his dad for leaving him there with his father's corpse. In the end though, T'Challa gave the guy a sole consolation for everything, the only thing he could've given at the time, give the guy a chance to see the amazing sunset his father used to tell him about. On another note, he was supporting Wakanda's isolation, at least at the start. It was Shuri and Nakia? who wanted to reach out. T'Chaka: "For a man who disapproves of diplomacy, you're getting quite good at it."

Like I said it's inconsistent, T'challa is the plot device so Eric can be an evil villain not radical antagonist that his characterisation should lend him to be! ( especially give the wakandan Weapons to all of the oppressed, like South America not the black disparea of North America/White countries and African people.

T'Challa felt himself undertrained in how to be a king. He asked for help from his father for that during the herb-empowerment thing. He'd just been thrust in a position where he is torn between keeping tradition or accepting progress. I don't see how he's a plot device, though I can see Killmonger being better portrayed.

T'challa then tries to make further amends by setting the first wakandaian outreach programme in Eric's old neighbourhood, but again he still to kill him instead of impeding him like one of his legs or lower torso.

That is when T'Challa finally accepted that change is a good thing for them.

T'Challa: "Wakanda will no longer watch from the shadows. We can not. We must not. We will work to be an example of how we, as brothers and sisters on this earth, should treat each other. Now, more than ever, the illusions of division threaten our very existence. We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

Also, impeding him by stabbing one of his legs or his lower torso won't do a lot to stop a soldier who is more skilled than he is. Who's to say he won't power through like T'Challa did on the wounds he recieved earlier in the kingship challenge?
 
Your helping me make my point.

T'challa should've been able empathise with Eric. T'challa was fortunate in comparison, he had clear path for his retribution, Eric didn't, he spent 20 years and killed over 200 people in order to try and gain the Intel he needed to get to wakanda, which only one gaijin has been to and survived, clew!

T'challa could see as could everyone else that he was consumed by vengeance in totality. Like Zemo for which T'challa had compassion for yet not Eric.

T'challa should've acted more like an untrained King in Civil war (which would've justifiable) yet its flipped, he's very solemn in CW, yet technically acts like a love struck teenager.

True the third act is a complete shitshow the was betrayal AND a loyalist Civil War, (for which no consequence are wrought and is swept under the rug) its like they got desperate during the reshoots and thought Game of thrones battle of the bastards ripoff was a good idea,, CGI creatures acting stuff is always a bad idea, it ages the film. Perhaps the CGI for Eric vs to t'challa fight we fix enough that they'll add some dialogue on the Blu-ray.

(I found ironic that marvel has another ethno-nationalist extremist, called Eric)
 
Does anyone else remember that it took two grenades to overload Black Panther's suit with kinetic energy?
 
7th Ki'oon said:
Your helping me make my point.
Click to expand...
T'Challa could have empathized, but he didn't have time for that. The first time they met, Killmonger was an unknown who suddenly claimed being royal blood. Afterwards, it spiralled into a mess where T'Challa had to act fast in order to stop the aircrafts from leaving Wakanda. He didn't have time to stop and empathize with the man.

T'Challa, in CW, wanted for Zemo to face the consequences of his actions. It helped that they had quiet time to actually talk and understand each other, which is clearly missing in his interaction with Killmonger until the last where he offered to have him healed, but Killmonger instead chose to die. Death is better than bondage, and all that jazz.

He wasn't king in Civil War. He was the prince who came as escort to the king.

I agree though that the 3rd act thing felt weird though, and the action sequences felt lacking compared to CW's (though CW's action was top of the line imo so that's not the best comparison) and the CGI felt stiff (though that can be attributed to the MCU pushing for faster post-production than quality check).

Natse said:
Does anyone else remember that it took two grenades to overload Black Panther's suit with kinetic energy?
Click to expand...
Mentioned it earlier on in the thread.
 
The Black Panther suit is vibranium-weaved and not solid vibranium like Cap's shield, which can explain why it has different properties. The BP suit absorbs and redirects energy. Cap's shield outright deflects it outwards. Lastly, vibranium's weakness is sonic attacks, which makes my head shake at how Thor hitting thw shield makes echoes of the contact by itself (listen to when he first whacked the shield in Avengers).
 
The suit having a limit on how much energy it can hold is a plot point and the reason why the movie hasn't ended much earlier. We're not told what the exact value for the limit, just that the suit has a limit.
 
So I finally saw the movie for myself yesterday.

I definitely think it was one of the better MCU films.

I loved the set pieces and how they depicted Wakanda and its technology, action scenes were sick and Erik Killmonger is objectively the best MCU villain, but also a genuinely good villain overall.

Also, did anyone else get the vibe that this could've worked as a good solo film with no shared universe behind it if they tweaked juuuuust a few scenes?
 
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