black clover speed problem

[Luci5678]

Yami ls statement


When we look at the statement of Yami saying that something is traveling at light speed we overlook the fact that this is a knowledge claim, like if we were to look at something similar where luck states that Dorothy's world is infinite yet this is a knowledge claim that would have to be proven that luck can know something of that scale otherwise you're just presupposing that he can, it's the same way with Yami he's stating something based on knowledge that we don't have any proof of so taking his statement as true would presuppose this. Proving this to also be a hasty generalization based on the little reasoning for believe his statement.


ftl+ calc

This feat would not only be an outlier but would not fit the narrative. We know that in black clover people have gotten supposed multipliers in magic but that it doesn't correlate to speed and mostly to ap or dc. We also know that after Asta and Yuno train to go save Yami after six months of training they are only on par or slightly faster than Yami, now you could say that Yami had the devil heart and that would increase mana but since Yami had no training he would not be able to output any more mana unless proven by something else. To prove that there would need to be evidence to support Yami just getting more mana and being faster we can look back at his fight with Dante, Dante would clearly have more mana than Yami yet Yami is faster and stronger this would only prove that it comes down more to mana output and not the sheer amount that someone has. So basically after 6 months Asta and Yuno would have only gotten slightly stronger and faster which would in turn mean that a 1 year timeskip would not uphold enough reasoning by itself to support a 400x increase, now I'm not saying that it's impossible for them to have gotten this fast, but it would need more evidence for it to not fall under the category of an outlier.

 

[Epsilon_R]

Have you been living under a rock or something? Cuz no ftl+ Calc is currently used on any of the profiles.

And we've been over most of these arguments countless times.

 

[Epsilon_R]

Also I'm sure you made the exact same thread like 6 months ago, but it got rejected and closed, I don’t see why this one is different

 

[Luci5678]

Have you been living under a rock or something? Cuz no ftl+ Calc is currently used on any of the profiles.

And we've been over most of these arguments countless times.

i just looked at yunos pfp and it says ftl+? unless im confused about something
and it wouldnt matter if youve seen these before

 

[Luci5678]

Also I'm sure you made the exact same thread like 6 months ago, but it got rejected and closed, I don’t see why this one is different

nothing in the rules states that i cant have a thread about the same thing as long as the premises are different it should be fine, which they are and as long as there is a least a 2 month period before making a thread about the same topic

 

[Epsilon_R]

Screw the same topic, this is quite literally the same arguments as before, there's a clear difference here

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

i just looked at yunos pfp and it says ftl+? unless im confused about something

Yuno is MFTL+ because he did a MFTL+ feat in the last saga where Light speed is now "fodder"

And is not an outlier, because having a MFTL+ after 2 arcs where light speed was the cap and characters becoming 3-4 tiers above, with Jack doing an attack that is faster than a lightspeed attack too (that comes from a Paladin which itself should be leagues faster than Patry) means that lightspeed is no longer the limit

 

[Luci5678]

Yuno is MFTL+ because he did a MFTL+ feat in the last saga where Light speed is now "fodder"

And is not an outlier, because having a MFTL+ after 2 arcs where light speed was the cap and characters becoming 3-4 tiers above, with Jack doing an attack that is faster than a lightspeed attack too (that comes from a Paladin which itself should be leagues faster than Patry) means that lightspeed is no longer the limit

Not only does this question beg from the first argument but the all the other things you've said don't mean anything as ur just reassuring what's already in question, that does not attack any of my arguments. I gave clear reasoning as to why Just having a 1 year timeskip and more forms and amps wouldn't justify the increase.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Horrible thread lol.

 

[Luci5678]

Screw the same topic, this is quite literally the same arguments as before, there's a clear difference here

The ls statement part is not the same at all really and the second part is similar but my thread was closed because of toxicity and was very productive in terms of figuring out who's argument is valid. I don't think there's any rule that says I can't make a thread like this unless I've done it like three times

 

[Luci5678]

Horrible thread lol.

This comment breaks a couple rules

 

[Arnoldstone18]

This comment breaks a couple rules

It is a poorly done thread based on ignorance.

When we look at the statement of Yami saying that something is traveling at light speed we overlook the fact that this is a knowledge claim, like if we were to look at something similar where luck states that Dorothy's world is infinite yet this is a knowledge claim that would have to be proven that luck can know something of that scale otherwise you're just presupposing that he can, it's the same way with Yami he's stating something based on knowledge that we don't have any proof of so taking his statement as true would presuppose this. Proving this to also be a hasty generalization based on the little reasoning for believe his statement.

Clearly don’t know how knowledge claim works.

1. Dorothy who owns the world verified Luck’s claim.
2. Aside from the obvious fact that Yami fought Patry so he would know, Patry who owns the movement spell verifies Yami’s light speed claims.

This feat would not only be an outlier but would not fit the narrative. We know that in black clover people have gotten supposed multipliers in magic but that it doesn't correlate to speed and mostly to ap or dc. We also know that after Asta and Yuno train to go save Yami after six months of training they are only on par or slightly faster than Yami, now you could say that Yami had the devil heart and that would increase mana but since Yami had no training he would not be able to output any more mana unless proven by something else. To prove that there would need to be evidence to support Yami just getting more mana and being faster we can look back at his fight with Dante, Dante would clearly have more mana than Yami yet Yami is faster and stronger this would only prove that it comes down more to mana output and not the sheer amount that someone has. So basically after 6 months Asta and Yuno would have only gotten slightly stronger and faster which would in turn mean that a 1 year timeskip would not uphold enough reasoning by itself to support a 400x increase, now I'm not saying that it's impossible for them to have gotten this fast, but it would need more evidence for it to not fall under the category of an outlier.

Your first scan doesn’t support your claim whatsoever, about an increase in magic leading to an increase in speed. Infact it looks like a random scan you brought out of context unless you actually skimmed through the manga without reading.


Magic boosts = speed boosts (and AP boosts), shown too many times in BC and has been brought up many times in previous threads.

It has also been shown many times that more mana allows a mage to access higher magic output/power. Any mage can use more mana than they’d normally use on their spells but they clearly have to watch their stamina.

Mana Zone (provides surrounding mana, technique is amplified when condensed as shown by Yami), Mana method (provides natural mana), Devil Power % (provides negative mana) etc all shown to match speed blitzes or clearly boosts speeds. Denying this clearly tells me you skimmed the manga without reading at all.


Yami has Devil Heart, Mana Zone, Mana Zone condensed, Mana Zone super condense for death thrust.

With all these amps is obvious that Yami is clearly capable of keeping up with Asta and Yuno’s growth in pace. Up until the previous Time Skip where Yami is clearly left in the dust unless you can prove he can keep up with Lucius.

Growth is not linear, (obviously, I guess not obvious to you)

The MFTL+ calc is clearly not an outlier.

 

[Robo432343]

hes back

 

[SunDaGamer]

This whole argument of "they only got slightly stronger" than before doesn't really have grounds to stand. We've seen people shoot up from 7-B to 6-B+ in a matter of months with Accelerated Development and Asta reaching High 6-A with one powerup. Yuno practically has the best Accel Dev we've seen by reaching a level that would've taken him his whole life up to this point to reach in a best case scenario in just 15 months in the main timeline. Vangeance literally saw a casual Base form Yuno step up on the battlefield for a moment and then immediately gave up his position as captain when he realised Yuno was just built different

 

[Xinsignia1]

Magic boosts = speed boosts (and AP boosts), shown too many times in BC and has been brought up many times in previous threads.

It has also been shown many times that more mana allows a mage to access higher magic output/power. Any mage can use more mana than they’d normally use on their spells but they clearly have to watch their stamina.

Mana Zone (provides surrounding mana, technique is amplified when condensed as shown by Yami), Mana method (provides natural mana), Devil Power % (provides negative mana) etc all shown to match speed blitzes or clearly boosts speeds. Denying this clearly tells me you skimmed the manga without reading at all.


Yami has Devil Heart, Mana Zone, Mana Zone condensed, Mana Zone super condense for death thrust.

With all these amps is obvious that Yami is clearly capable of keeping up with Asta and Yuno’s growth in pace. Up until the previous Time Skip where Yami is clearly left in the dust unless you can prove he can keep up with Lucius.

And to add, Grey specifically stated Yami was brimming with magical power So it's made pretty clear that Yami received a significant boost given Grey's analysis.

It doesn't get much clearer than that.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Yami ls statement


When we look at the statement of Yami saying that something is traveling at light speed we overlook the fact that this is a knowledge claim, like if we were to look at something similar where luck states that Dorothy's world is infinite yet this is a knowledge claim that would have to be proven that luck can know something of that scale otherwise you're just presupposing that he can, it's the same way with Yami he's stating something based on knowledge that we don't have any proof of so taking his statement as true would presuppose this. Proving this to also be a hasty generalization based on the little reasoning for believe his statement.


ftl+ calc

This feat would not only be an outlier but would not fit the narrative. We know that in black clover people have gotten supposed multipliers in magic but that it doesn't correlate to speed and mostly to ap or dc. We also know that after Asta and Yuno train to go save Yami after six months of training they are only on par or slightly faster than Yami, now you could say that Yami had the devil heart and that would increase mana but since Yami had no training he would not be able to output any more mana unless proven by something else. To prove that there would need to be evidence to support Yami just getting more mana and being faster we can look back at his fight with Dante, Dante would clearly have more mana than Yami yet Yami is faster and stronger this would only prove that it comes down more to mana output and not the sheer amount that someone has. So basically after 6 months Asta and Yuno would have only gotten slightly stronger and faster which would in turn mean that a 1 year timeskip would not uphold enough reasoning by itself to support a 400x increase, now I'm not saying that it's impossible for them to have gotten this fast, but it would need more evidence for it to not fall under the category of an outlier.

Did bro just say, since they did not get stupidly faster than yami in the first 6months time skip that means they can't after another timeskip for a year?

Are we assuming caps for timeskips now?
Wow This takes arguing from incredulity to a whole new level.

Not to mention these guys got entirely new magic to train with and one even got a whole ass new power system.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Not only does this question beg from the first argument but the all the other things you've said don't mean anything as ur just reassuring what's already in question, that does not attack any of my arguments. I gave clear reasoning as to why Just having a 1 year timeskip and more forms and amps wouldn't justify the increase.

"All the other things you have said don't mean anything"

Your thread is pure garbage then <3

 

[CloverDragon03]

This thread's the exact same as the last one that got rejected. I see no reason to approve this. Characters growing a ton between timeskips is absolutely justified, I think SunDaGamer summed it all up perfectly.

"They only got slightly stronger." Based on what? You're just claiming that to be the case with no evidence.

I disagree with this thread, just like I did with the last one

 

[Luci5678]

Did bro just say, since they did not get stupidly faster than yami in the first 6months time skip that means they can't after another timeskip for a year?

Are we assuming caps for timeskips now?
Wow This takes arguing from incredulity to a whole new level.

Not to mention these guys got entirely new magic to train with and one even got a whole ass new power system.

no, i said since the narrative is that people in the verse only get a decent amount of strength that an increase of 400x would need more evidence to justify it

and no an argument cannot be from incredulity if it has evidence and logical reasoning, which mine does

 

[Luci5678]

"All the other things you have said don't mean anything"

Your thread is pure garbage then <3

cherry picking, ad hom and breaking rules

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

cherry picking, ad hom and breaking rules

Arguments as flacid as a wet spaghetti= this thread

 

[Luci5678]

This whole argument of "they only got slightly stronger" than before doesn't really have grounds to stand. We've seen people shoot up from 7-B to 6-B+ in a matter of months with Accelerated Development and Asta reaching High 6-A with one powerup. Yuno practically has the best Accel Dev we've seen by reaching a level that would've taken him his whole life up to this point to reach in a best case scenario in just 15 months in the main timeline. Vangeance literally saw a casual Base form Yuno step up on the battlefield for a moment and then immediately gave up his position as captain when he realised Yuno was just built different

I dont know if u read what I said but it says that a magic increase effects strength more than speed

 

[Luci5678]

I dont know if u read what I said but it says that a magic increase effects strength more than speed

therefore again meaning that there needs to be more evidence for such a big increase in speed

 

[Luci5678]

This thread's the exact same as the last one that got rejected. I see no reason to approve this. Characters growing a ton between timeskips is absolutely justified, I think SunDaGamer summed it all up perfectly.

"They only got slightly stronger." Based on what? You're just claiming that to be the case with no evidence.

I disagree with this thread, just like I did with the last one

based on what i said

 

[CloverDragon03]

no, i said since the narrative is that people in the verse only get a decent amount of strength that an increase of 400x would need more evidence to justify it

and no an argument cannot be from incredulity if it has evidence and logical reasoning, which mine does

What about the narrative says the increase was only "a decent amount"

(Correct Answer: Nothing. That's pure headcanon. This is an argument from incredulity)

 

[Luci5678]

It is a poorly done thread based on ignorance.



Clearly don’t know how knowledge claim works.

1. Dorothy who owns the world verified Luck’s claim.
2. Aside from the obvious fact that Yami fought Patry so he would know, Patry who owns the movement spell verifies Yami’s light speed claims.



Your first scan doesn’t support your claim whatsoever, about an increase in magic leading to an increase in speed. Infact it looks like a random scan you brought out of context unless you actually skimmed through the manga without reading.


Magic boosts = speed boosts (and AP boosts), shown too many times in BC and has been brought up many times in previous threads.

It has also been shown many times that more mana allows a mage to access higher magic output/power. Any mage can use more mana than they’d normally use on their spells but they clearly have to watch their stamina.

Mana Zone (provides surrounding mana, technique is amplified when condensed as shown by Yami), Mana method (provides natural mana), Devil Power % (provides negative mana) etc all shown to match speed blitzes or clearly boosts speeds. Denying this clearly tells me you skimmed the manga without reading at all.


Yami has Devil Heart, Mana Zone, Mana Zone condensed, Mana Zone super condense for death thrust.

With all these amps is obvious that Yami is clearly capable of keeping up with Asta and Yuno’s growth in pace. Up until the previous Time Skip where Yami is clearly left in the dust unless you can prove he can keep up with Lucius.

Growth is not linear, (obviously, I guess not obvious to you)

The MFTL+ calc is clearly not an outlier.

i would respond to this if it had scans

 

[Luci5678]

What about the narrative says the increase was only "a decent amount"

(Correct Answer: Nothing. That's pure headcanon. This is an argument from incredulity)

its all explained in my thread

 

[CloverDragon03]

Your thread does not make an adequate explanation. It practically boils down to "well yeah this is true but also no because I said so." Like with Yami's Devil Heart. He doesn't need to have done additional training on top of that in the Lucifero fight, the Devil Heart is why Yami is much stronger. That's all.

Your thread is literally the exact same attempted, rejected thread. There's not a single thing new about this

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Arguments as flacid as a wet spaghetti= this thread

"All the other things you have said don't mean anything"

Your thread is pure garbage then <3

Play nice or don't play. This is an informal warning. All y'all been here a long time, you know that your concerns with the thread should be phrased as such: knocking the user is an offense.

To speak on the thread: without further context, the OP's arguments seem dull. If these arguments were previously rejected (and they do seem at least somewhat similar, acknowledging that I don't know the verse and they don't offer much to unknowledgeable people to work with), then I agree that this thread serves little purpose. I disagree for now.

 

[FinePoint]

Hello friends, and especially @Kazuma_kuwabara.

I would like to remind everyone that this forum is meant to be a civil place where we have reasonable and friendly discussions.
Even if you strongly disagree with the thread, please try and remain calm and refrain from making any personal attacks or particularly rude/sarcastic comments.
They can be hurtful, and are ultimately unproductive.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

i would respond to this if it had scans

if this is the kind of attitude towards a response that references the op, Good luck getting this thread accepted then.

 

[Luci5678]

if this is the kind of attitude towards a response that references the op, Good luck getting this thread accepted then.

what kind of attitude? the attitude of me asking for scans to prove the many things you've claimed? did u just expect me to take all of those things as the truth?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

If I wasn’t obvious before. I’ll be clearer.

I referenced everything on the OP. Your OP has the scans. So no need for new scans to tell you how wrong you are since your incredulous claims are already misguided to begin with.