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Who wins and why?
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Bill Cipher (Gravity Falls) VS Morgoth (Tolkienverse)
- Thread starter Samanthademeste
- Start date
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Bump.
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Well, I would give it to Bill, since he has better hax and greater AP.
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Bill due to reasons above
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- Thread starter
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Bill Cipher: 2
Morgoth: 0
Morgoth: 0
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bump
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bump
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Does Bill have a defense against non-corpreaility and conceptual manipulation?
If not, then he doesn't have a prayer.
If not, then he doesn't have a prayer.
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Morgoth's conceptual manipulation is not this much powerful and I don't remember if it is combat-applicable, and yes, Bill can affect non-corporeal beings.
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When was this shown?
Also, conceptual manipulation is a pretty strong hax.
If Bill doesn't have a counter then he might as well sign his own death warrent.
Also, conceptual manipulation is a pretty strong hax.
If Bill doesn't have a counter then he might as well sign his own death warrent.
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Bill does have some ways of affecting Non-Corporeals, but I don't think he has any defence against conceptual hax.
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How does morgoth even have conceptual manipulation?
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He created the concepts of Arda with the other Ainur.
That's the reason for the Valar's Low 2-C rating.
That's the reason for the Valar's Low 2-C rating.
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"Created multiple concepts, including discord, with his thoughts."
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Could Bill's Higher-Dimensional Manipulation match Morgoth's Conceptual Manipulation?
And, BTW, can Morgoth affect someone beyond the 3th Dimension?
BTW┬▓, Bill also has some degree of conceptual manipulation, as his mere presence can distort basic concepts of the universe such as time and meaning.
Don't know if that's enough to protect him from Morgoth's conceptual manipulation, but eh, that's it
And, BTW, can Morgoth affect someone beyond the 3th Dimension?
BTW┬▓, Bill also has some degree of conceptual manipulation, as his mere presence can distort basic concepts of the universe such as time and meaning.
Don't know if that's enough to protect him from Morgoth's conceptual manipulation, but eh, that's it
- Also Bill has greater AP and can one-shoot Morgoth, who has Universe level+ durability
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How does he have greater AP?
They are both "At least Low 2-C"
They are both "At least Low 2-C"
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Bill doesn't have Conceptual Manipulation, it's not anywhere on his page, and they have to be both Low 2-C here for it to be fair.
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It has to be Low 2-C Bill, or else this is a stomp.
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We are using Low 2-C Bill.
As much as I like LOTR, Morgoth doesn't stand a chance against a 2-A, even with conceptual manipulation.
As much as I like LOTR, Morgoth doesn't stand a chance against a 2-A, even with conceptual manipulation.
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Morgoth is stronger than all 14 other Valar combined.
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Morgoth also has "At least Universe level+" dura.
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And...?
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Just because Bill could one-shot a baseline Low 2-C, it doesn't mean he can one-shot a guy who is significantly above the combined power of 14 Low 2-Cs.
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None of them controls space-time alone or created it alone. It was a group. Also, there is the possibility that there will be a downgrade, since the exact number of Ainur who are involved in the creation of the universe is unknown.
Also, it doesn't change much, he has still Universe level+ durability.
Also, it doesn't change much, he has still Universe level+ durability.
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Then go make a content revision thread, because the Valar are Low 2-C right now.
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Also how is morgoth getting past his Regenerationn?
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I know, said thread is already in progress.
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Conceptual Manipulation can bypass regen, it would destroy both Bill, and the possibility of Bill existing in the first place.
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Also, Morogoth likely blitzes.
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Are you referring to the thread I made?TheOwnMagic said:
Because I already explained why numbers are irrelevant here.
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Here:
"The space-time of the universe is infinite, since the actaul time of the universe will continue, even after a google years when all the stars are dead, time will still exist.
Think of the sapce-time as a ribbon. No matter how many times you cut the ribbon, if it is infinitly long (With the length being the atual time of the universe, and the width being its space), it will always remain infinite.
So really, embodying an aspect of the universe, no matter how small, is the same as embodying the entire universe. "
"The space-time of the universe is infinite, since the actaul time of the universe will continue, even after a google years when all the stars are dead, time will still exist.
Think of the sapce-time as a ribbon. No matter how many times you cut the ribbon, if it is infinitly long (With the length being the atual time of the universe, and the width being its space), it will always remain infinite.
So really, embodying an aspect of the universe, no matter how small, is the same as embodying the entire universe. "
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Anyway, right now I guess I'll vote for Morgoth, since Bill has no defence against Conceptual Manipulation and it also seems like he has the AP advantage, since he is superior to other 14 Low 2-Cs, once you CRT is done, I'll see if I change my vote.
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There is no CRT, accepet for the one I made with the opposite goal.
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Then I think Morgoth wins.
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Following the same line of MasterofArda, 14 x infinity is still infinity, so being stronger than 14 Low 2-Cs change anything, 'cause the total amount of power is still infinite.Paulo.junior.969 said:
And how can we just ignore the Standard Battle Assumptions page? It says that, if there is no specification, it must be use.
Ahh, about Morgoth's conceptual manipulation: could Bill's state of "quantum uncertainty" (which means everything he is, he is also not) match it?
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If we use 2-A Bill it would be a stomp anyway, and if you want Bill to have Resistance to Conceptual Manipulation due to "quantum uncertainty", you know what to do, content revision thread.
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Using the argument that he should without making a crt would have to mean we take it with a grain of salt for now.
Morgoth has some pretty decent conceptual manipulation, as he himself was the first conceptual creation of Eru Illevetar.
He can likely just create a concept and incapicitate Bill either by saying he himself is now in the concept of "Nothingness" where he no longer exists.
Or he can create the concept of another universe, and seal bill in it.
It is a pretty nlf power.
But I guess to counter my points, Bill has actual showings of power at this level so it is likely just a match between hax vs ap.
I have to go Morgoth.
Bill hurt a grand total of maybe one person in the show who was non corpreal. It is not in his character to do so instantly and even then, I have doubts he can do it in a fight.
Morgoth, even if he was the weakest Low 2-C in the world, still has conceptual hax and saying he should be resistant to it is not the same compared to actually being resistant to it.
Considering also his 'song' created discord as well as warping the universe to bend to his whim by creating this concept, which mind you is being led by this guy and 14 other dieties, shows just how powerful his concept hax is and how powerful it can be considering he can warp the reality of the universe itself.
Bill's only saving grace is he can manipulate time and stop it, but if we are going by in character.
Bill toys around and underestimates his opponents and lost to this twelve year old boy.
Morgoth doesn't. Generally speaking.
Morgoth via reality warping likely being better and conceptual manipulation.
Morgoth has some pretty decent conceptual manipulation, as he himself was the first conceptual creation of Eru Illevetar.
He can likely just create a concept and incapicitate Bill either by saying he himself is now in the concept of "Nothingness" where he no longer exists.
Or he can create the concept of another universe, and seal bill in it.
It is a pretty nlf power.
But I guess to counter my points, Bill has actual showings of power at this level so it is likely just a match between hax vs ap.
I have to go Morgoth.
Bill hurt a grand total of maybe one person in the show who was non corpreal. It is not in his character to do so instantly and even then, I have doubts he can do it in a fight.
Morgoth, even if he was the weakest Low 2-C in the world, still has conceptual hax and saying he should be resistant to it is not the same compared to actually being resistant to it.
Considering also his 'song' created discord as well as warping the universe to bend to his whim by creating this concept, which mind you is being led by this guy and 14 other dieties, shows just how powerful his concept hax is and how powerful it can be considering he can warp the reality of the universe itself.
Bill's only saving grace is he can manipulate time and stop it, but if we are going by in character.
Bill toys around and underestimates his opponents and lost to this twelve year old boy.
Morgoth doesn't. Generally speaking.
Morgoth via reality warping likely being better and conceptual manipulation.
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Bill losing to Dipper is the very definition of PIS
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