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Big boss speed

Bullets are still a threat to them
Not really actually, they constantly dodge bullets. They're a threat if they hit, but they almost never do.
Raiden is stated to be able to deflect bullets, Gray Fox is stated to deflect bullets, Quiet sees them in slow motion, Solidus can deflect gunfire with his hands, Venom and BB both perceive bullets in slow motion. Solid has avoided railguns and of course, bullets, etc.
Hell here's The Boss dodging a bullet point blank.
 
Is the tank feat calced?
It will be, I'm doing a huge verse overhaul, I got the rough numbers and me and Chomp have discussed it a bit, it might be the fastest feat in the verse pre-MGR actually, he doesn't actually start moving till it's literally inches from him.
 
It will be, I'm doing a huge verse overhaul, I got the rough numbers and me and Chomp have discussed it a bit, it might be the fastest feat in the verse pre-MGR actually, he doesn't actually start moving till it's literally inches from him.
Do you think it will be massively hypersonic?
 
100%, went frame by frame while in 4K to angsize the distance BB was from the missile, literally inches away from it. Him merely exiting the train car before it hits from that distance is well into high hypersonic.
Running the numbers I got like mach 150-200. Of course, that's just a rough approximate, but it's around there.

There's also the fact Venom can watch a mach 291.545 (Precursor to REX's which has a stated speed of 100km/s) railgun fire and follow the path of the shot.
 
Not really actually, they constantly dodge bullets. They're a threat if they hit, but they almost never do.
Raiden is stated to be able to deflect bullets, Gray Fox is stated to deflect bullets, Quiet sees them in slow motion, Solidus can deflect gunfire with his hands, Venom and BB both perceive bullets in slow motion. Solid has avoided railguns and of course, bullets, etc.
Hell here's The Boss dodging a bullet point blank.

Metal Gear is about sneaking around because guns are deadly, they are faster than bullets but if they were consistently MHS then they shouldn't even care about them at all
 
Ah ok so two questions what number(s) does this wiki use for several and many and do you know about
100%, went frame by frame while in 4K to angsize the distance BB was from the missile, literally inches away from it. Him merely exiting the train car before it hits from that distance is well into high hypersonic.
Running the numbers I got like mach 150-200. Of course, that's just a rough approximate, but it's around there.

There's also the fact Venom can watch a mach 291.545 (Precursor to REX's which has a stated speed of 100km/s) railgun fire and follow the path of the shot.
Ah ok also do you know what number(s) are used for several and many and have you heard about exoskeletons?
 
MGS is about sneaking around for a **** ton of reasons, for example, the VM was because he couldn't be spotted as it'd spark international affairs.
It doesn't matter how fast you are if you're being gunned down by like 50 dudes and have nowhere to dodge and they tag you from a dozen blindspots. You could be lightspeed, if you don't see it coming, you aren't going to dodge, see FP Batman shooting Reverse Flash in the head from behind.

Point is they are literally stated to be faster than bullets, and dodge them every game. And we even see from their perspective at times, theyre slow as ****. They're a threat if they hit, but they're capable of dodging them unless they get overwhelmed by a bunch of dudes, this has been consistent since MGS2 (Solidus constantly outpaces and deflects bullets, he even deflects heavy artillery gattling fire from RAY for a prolonged period of time. Raiden is also stated and shown to be able to deflect bullets, and the Tengu's can too) with every game going out of its way to show as such.

Hell the last game even had a built in canon mechanic where the player character can use his hyper enhanced senses to watch bullets fly in slow motion. He even dodges a sniper round at one point. MGS dudes actually be quite fast is the only consistent thing about the verse ngl.
Ah ok also do you know what number(s) are used for several and many and have you heard about exoskeletons?
Well it doesn't quite matter what we use atm, MGS is undergoing revisions (eventually), almost everything will be tweaked to at least some degree. And yeah, I'm well aware of the exoskeletons. Atm though, we use some HH Railgun feats that need to be tweaked, and a calc of Raiden deflecting Tengu gunfire which is about mach 90~ give or take if memory serves.
 
MGS is about sneaking around for a **** ton of reasons, for example, the VM was because he couldn't be spotted as it'd spark international affairs.
It doesn't matter how fast you are if you're being gunned down by like 50 dudes and have nowhere to dodge and they tag you from a dozen blindspots. You could be lightspeed, if you don't see it coming, you aren't going to dodge, see FP Batman shooting Reverse Flash in the head from behind.

Point is they are literally stated to be faster than bullets, and dodge them every game. And we even see from their perspective at times, theyre slow as ****. They're a threat if they hit, but they're capable of dodging them unless they get overwhelmed by a bunch of dudes, this has been consistent since MGS2 (Solidus constantly outpaces and deflects bullets, he even deflects heavy artillery gattling fire from RAY for a prolonged period of time. Raiden is also stated and shown to be able to deflect bullets, and the Tengu's can too) with every game going out of its way to show as such.

Hell the last game even had a built in canon mechanic where the player character can use his hyper enhanced senses to watch bullets fly in slow motion. He even dodges a sniper round at one point. MGS dudes actually be quite fast is the only consistent thing about the verse ngl.

Well it doesn't quite matter what we use atm, MGS is undergoing revisions (eventually), almost everything will be tweaked to at least some degree. And yeah, I'm well aware of the exoskeletons. Atm though, we use some HH Railgun feats that need to be tweaked, and a calc of Raiden deflecting Tengu gunfire which is about mach 90~ give or take if memory serves.
I have statements regarding exoskeletons for 3 important characters shall I help?
 
No need, I 100% already have them. If it's MGR though I'll take it, I haven't started combing through that yet beyond basic stuff and a few text dumps and guide.
I've been going through every game, checking every line of dialogue, codec, gameplay and more. I've also been going through guides like the Piggyback ones endorsed by Kojipro, as well as japanese artbooks, database, japanese manuals and interviews. Literally everything.

Probably going to be the largest CRT on the wiki once it's done, atm I'm at like 3000 clips, and nearly a thousand scans from things.
 
What's wrong
This is peak argument from incredulity at its finest. By your logic, every single character who have higher speed feats than bullets and are still threatened by bullets because omegalol piercing damage would not even peak above Supersonic, which is not only ludicrously wrong, but it's also insanely bad logic.
 
This is peak argument from incredulity at its finest. By your logic, every single character who have higher speed feats than bullets and are still threatened by bullets because omegalol piercing damage would not even peak above Supersonic, which is not only ludicrously wrong, but it's also insanely bad logic.
It depends on what's more consistent, and yeah that's possible
 
No need, I 100% already have them. If it's MGR though I'll take it, I haven't started combing through that yet beyond basic stuff and a few text dumps and guide.
I've been going through every game, checking every line of dialogue, codec, gameplay and more. I've also been going through guides like the Piggyback ones endorsed by Kojipro, as well as japanese artbooks, database, japanese manuals and interviews. Literally everything.

Probably going to be the largest CRT on the wiki once it's done, atm I'm at like 3000 clips, and nearly a thousand scans from things.
BTW, wasn't there a scan of an SoL laser which the machines dodge and the speed was literally written in bold? Or am I missing something?
 
So? What difference does it make
Difference is without context we can't say for certain whether a feat is valid to begin with or not. Worse still it might not even be to depict power levels like most people expect it to.

Like for example, anti-feats within Marvel like this guy tried to push. Not only were these anti-feats complete bait, they were also ludicrously contradicted to hell and back immediately with other higher-level feats, IN THE SAME EXACT COMIC ISSUE. Sometimes anti-feats also exist to give tension to the story because if you set up a story with that one mindset that they're the same strength all the time where they can destroy entire cosmic structures and blitz through literally anything without even trying, it becomes too boring and ends too quickly before the fun even begins.
 
It depends on what's more consistent, and yeah that's possible
There's unironically multiple bullet doging feats every game, and the only time they're tagged is when they're blindsided and don't even know it was coming untill after it hit them, which happens so few times I can't even count it on one hand.
Meanwhile we have like 30+ bullet dodges in cutscenes alone, and even a whole mechanic based around bullet time (with it even procing in scripted sequence, which def helps with the enhanced senses).
Add codecs and statements and you can like triple that.
BTW, wasn't there a scan of an SoL laser which the machines dodge and the speed was literally written in bold? Or am I missing something?
REX has a free electron laser yeah (technically it's like 0.98c iirc but close enough), but it also hitscans Gray Fox in a cutscene, twice.
 
Difference is without context we can't say for certain whether a feat is valid to begin with or not.

Like for example, anti-feats within Marvel like this guy tried to push. Not only were these anti-feats complete bait, they were also ludicrously contradicted to hell and back immediately with other higher-level feats, IN THE SAME EXACT COMIC ISSUE. Sometimes anti-feats also exist to give tension to the story because if you set up a story with that one mindset that they're the same strength all the time it becomes too boring and ends too quickly before the fun even begins.
Doesn't apply to this case

MGS is about sneaking around for a **** ton of reasons, for example, the VM was because he couldn't be spotted as it'd spark international affairs.
It doesn't matter how fast you are if you're being gunned down by like 50 dudes and have nowhere to dodge and they tag you from a dozen blindspots. You could be lightspeed, if you don't see it coming, you aren't going to dodge, see FP Batman shooting Reverse Flash in the head from behind.

Point is they are literally stated to be faster than bullets, and dodge them every game. And we even see from their perspective at times, theyre slow as ****. They're a threat if they hit, but they're capable of dodging them unless they get overwhelmed by a bunch of dudes, this has been consistent since MGS2 (Solidus constantly outpaces and deflects bullets, he even deflects heavy artillery gattling fire from RAY for a prolonged period of time. Raiden is also stated and shown to be able to deflect bullets, and the Tengu's can too) with every game going out of its way to show as such.

Hell the last game even had a built in canon mechanic where the player character can use his hyper enhanced senses to watch bullets fly in slow motion. He even dodges a sniper round at one point. MGS dudes actually be quite fast is the only consistent thing about the verse ngl.

Well it doesn't quite matter what we use atm, MGS is undergoing revisions (eventually), almost everything will be tweaked to at least some degree. And yeah, I'm well aware of the exoskeletons. Atm though, we use some HH Railgun feats that need to be tweaked, and a calc of Raiden deflecting Tengu gunfire which is about mach 90~ give or take if memory serves.
If youre MHS the bullets would be like frozen and they wouldn't touch anyone even if they aren't looking
 
Doesn't apply to this case
Are you kidding me.

Are you genuinely trolling with me right now.

If youre MHS the bullets would be like frozen and they wouldn't touch anyone even if they aren't looking
Way to completely ******* ignore the part about sticking to that "one mentality where it gets too boring if the character is at full power all the goddamn time" part (This shit applies to all forms of fiction) and being shot off-guard from literally everywhere. If you're caught off-guard, you're not dodging shit.
 
If youre MHS the bullets would be like frozen and they wouldn't touch anyone even if they aren't looking
My dude. They basically are frozen when they're actively paying attention. Big Boss > Gene (who can throw knives at machine gun rate of fire) >> Baby Gray Fox (Can effortlessly slice bullets and blitz dudes).
Hell Gray Fox's whole schtick is being able to slice gunfire, the japanese website, artbook and guide all say "Able to slice through gunfire". Of course, they basically say as much in game too. I mention Gray Fox because he has like a metric **** ton of scenes where he does that.

I mean, they even say fodder can do it


Hell here's Venom watching an actual MHS projectile move (He's also to fast to be hit by normal guns in the boss fight according to the MG1 guides, and can only be killed with the RPG-7 rocket).
 
Hey KING, if you've got ANY characters on the wiki who were threatened by bullets but placed as higher than Supersonic, downgrade them right now, I'm not joking.
I would do that for Batman characters but its better to discuss it in the general discussion

Are you kidding me.

Are you genuinely trolling with me right now.


Way to completely ******* ignore the part about sticking to that "one mentality where it gets too boring if the character is at full power all the goddamn time" part (This shit applies to all forms of fiction) and being shot off-guard from literally everywhere. If you're caught off-guard, you're not dodging shit.
It doesn't get too boring to see someone being really consistently fast. And how is this an excuse? If a character gets anti feats because the plot needs them to be weaker than usual then they are just slower

If you're caught off-guard, you're not dodging shit.

Bullets are a threat to MGS characters even if they're not off guard

My dude. They basically are frozen when they're actively paying attention. Big Boss > Gene (who can throw knives at machine gun rate of fire) >> Baby Gray Fox (Can effortlessly slice bullets and blitz dudes).
Hell Gray Fox's whole schtick is being able to slice gunfire, the japanese website, artbook and guide all say "Able to slice through gunfire". Of course, they basically say as much in game too. I mention Gray Fox because he has like a metric **** ton of scenes where he does that.

I mean, they even say fodder can do it


Hell here's Venom watching an actual MHS projectile move (He's also to fast to be hit by normal guns in the boss fight according to the MG1 guides, and can only be killed with the RPG-7 rocket).

That's fine then
 
I would do that for Batman characters but its better to discuss it in the general discussion
Cassandra Cain says hello, Nightwing says hello, Katana says hello. Need I go on?

And stop derailing with this "I would do X for Y character" based on such faulty logic. Either do it for all verses if you think that's how shit works, or not at all.

It doesn't get too boring to see someone being really consistently fast. And how is this an excuse? If a character gets anti feats because the plot needs them to be weaker than usual then they are just slower
This is such a cop-out I don't even know if I want to tackle this.

No it ******* doesn't. Plot's job is to keep a story fun and engaging, not boring people out with overpowered characters flooring everyone they see on their path.

Bullets are a threat to MGS characters even if they're not off guard
"Bullets are a threat to MGS characters" is not an argument. PERIOD. Characters can bullet-time even without needing to see them in slow-mo within the game itself. You don't have to see everything in slow-mo to be MHS. Literally ask any lightning-timer in fiction that moves faster than lightning yet still gets harmed by bullets. Piercing damage is the main contributor to the lethality of a bullet in fiction, not its speed. Being caught off guard in multiple directions is another.
 
Cassandra Cain says hello, Nightwing says hello, Katana says hello. Need I go on?

And stop derailing with this.


This is such a cop-out I don't even know if I want to tackle this.

No it ******* doesn't. Plot's job is to keep a story fun and engaging, not boring people out with overpowered characters flooring everyone they see on their path.


"Bullets are a threat to MGS characters" is not an argument. PERIOD. Characters can bullet-time even without needing to see them in slow-mo within the game itself. You don't have to see everything in slow-mo to be MHS. Literally ask any lightning-timer in fiction that moves faster than lightning yet still gets harmed by bullets. Piercing damage is the main contributor to the lethality of a bullet in fiction, not its speed. Being caught off guard in multiple directions is another.


Cassandra Cain says hello, Nightwing says hello, Katana says hello. Need I go on?

Why is this relevant? Do you think they more consistently get tagged by bullets? If so, then maybe they aren't MHS

Plot's job is to keep a story fun and engaging, not boring with overpowered characters flooring everyone they see on their path.

Its possible to keep a story fun and not have anti feats

Literally ask any lightning-timer in fiction that moves faster than lightning yet still gets harmed by bullets.

Then maybe they aren't lightning timers

"Bullets are a threat to MGS characters" is not an argument. PERIOD

I mean, in MGS context sure, since Chariot already proved that. We can continue this on your wall since its not related to the OP

And stop derailing with this.

You responded first
 
Why is this relevant?
Because the whole "getting tagged by bullets" is one of the worst offenders in terms of PIS. Bullet level Thor much?

Do you think they more consistently get tagged by bullets? If so, then maybe they aren't MHS
In case you haven't noticed, they're Supersonic+ to Hypersonic+ for multiple consistent bullet-dodging calcs and projectile-catching calcs they have for themselves.

Its possible to keep a story fun and not have anti feats
Not by making the character completely broken and making them shitcan everyone every time and then end the story right then and there.

Then maybe they aren't lightning timers
Terrible joke is terrible. Maybe look into the context of these so-called "getting tagged by bullets" anti-feats next time?

I mean, in MGS context sure, since Chariot already proved that.
Even if he didn't have to show that the bullets were frozen, this is not an argument for debunking them from being MHS.

The mere act of dodging/deflecting a bullet doesn't end at "Supersonic/Subsonic". How far the character moves in relation to the projectile and the distance between the character and projectile are also of equal importance.

We can continue this on your wall since its not related to the OP
Given that you're doing nothing but trolling at this point and can't even be taken seriously enough, or the fact that you don't even understand how Projectile Dodging calcs work, it'd simply be a waste of my time.

Like I said, make a wiki-wide thread for this shit, or don't discuss this at all.
 
Oh and one other thing id like to point out is that weapons in metal gear are far better than real life's example ocelot shooting volgins lightning and snake using the rocket launcher to blow up some rubble to save ocelot
 
Oh and one other thing id like to point out is that weapons in metal gear are far better than real life's example ocelot shooting volgins lightning and snake using the rocket launcher to blow up some rubble to save ocelot
Yeah, we know this already. That's why the speeds are what they are.
 
Probably calc that rubble feat tbh, that's very solid v.frag of a huge steel beam (and other debris). Probably tier 8.
 
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