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The content revision thread is finally ready! I find there are scaling and ranking problems with the BFDI series on the VS Battles Wiki, so I will be addressing them. The goal of this revision is to make what's acknowledged more organized and refined.
First of all, the characters shouldn't have a variable rank. Their power does not vary, their feats do. If the characters varied in power, we can't scale the Have Cots to many other characters. The characters should still be ranked the way they are, but they should have "Varies" removed so it won't imply that they actually vary.
Now for the main topic. For a long time, I have been silent about the tiering for the power of the contestants. I have accepted people scaling the contestants to Four, but I don't actually agree with it very much. Now I'm going to explain it and hope the tiering gets better with my help.
There is a very infamous argument. During BFB 3, Four zaps Gelatin many times without killing him. Seeing all the evidence of contestants not scaling means I could write that this is a mere outlier, but I'll make my explanation more interesting. Four is very known for holding back his power, even when angry, just so the target can feel pain instead of die. This is shown and explained during post-split BFB. During BFB 17, Four got mad at Balloony because he high-fived Lollipop, then he pulled Balloony's fingers to make his hand look how he wants it to look. This is brought up and clarified during BFB 30. Four is more sadistic than murderous. Four usually makes characters hurt than injured with his zapping, seen on other occasions such as during BFB 12, when Gaty got zapped and was more surprised than anything else. We can see that Four's zapping is an attack that is more like raw electrocution rather than a beam attack. Otherwise, it is a beam that he can control the power of. During BFB 4, Death P.A.C.T. stopped doing the challenge to prevent Four from having the minor inconvenience of being poked by forks, by blocking them. Later on in that episode, Bottle was worried that Four would fry the team. The amount of forks was significantly larger than during BFB 3, so it seems that Bottle suggested that Four went easy on Gelatin when three forks poked him during BFB 3, but Four would've really hurt Death P.A.C.T. during BFB 4 if many forks poked him. We can even see Four smiling while zapping Gelatin during BFB 3, so instead of the idea "Gelatin survived attacks from Four when enraged.", it's actually "Four zapped Gelatin to make Gelatin feel pain so Four could cheer up.". That is the kind of stuff we see when the contestants supposedly scale to Four. Another example during BFB 3 is Four smacking Nickel. Four seemed angry, but he must have been resisting his full power to smack Nickel, since Nickel made him angry for something rather insignificant and Nickel needed to be alive for the Cake at Steak so it would've been inconvenient to kill Nickel when everyone was ready.
With the above paragraph in mind, I'll go over all the possible times contestants have been portrayed as comparable to Four. I am deliberately skipping moments when Donut had the factor of Four and I will mention them later. During BFB 1, Liy squished a bump of Four to see what he is made of. Scaling Liy to Four due to that would be like arguing that Majin Buu from Dragon Ball is human level because bullets were able to dent him. Majin Buu being affected bullets was to display his regeneration, like how Liy squishing the side of Four was to display that his body is very malleable. During BFB 1, Pillow fought Four to try and get him to stop screeching. Right after, Four despawned Pillow as if nothing happened, so this isn't reliable evidence of contestants scaling to him. During BFB 6, A Better Name Than That used a sled to push Donut and X into Four to defeat him. That was exploiting a weakness Four has, of being a number that can be multiplied by zero, so that doesn't make them scale to Four. During BFB 15, Four seemed very annoyed at a few members of Death P.A.C.T. sticking their arms out of his mouth from inside of him. However, being annoyed is not getting hurt, and it seemed to be easily temporarily solved during previous occurrences. During BFB 16, the fire of Firey Jr. reached Four and knocked him out. However, that took place inside of Four, which means Four may be internally not as fire resistant as he is externally. Additionally, this can very well of been plot-induced stupidity to have Spongy and Loser escape Four. During BFB 25, Gelatin smacked Four. Four called Gelatin's arm a noodle arm, so while this does suggest some comparability from contestants, it's not very much. During BFB 26, Four violently and angrily slammed Profile Picture down when he was ranting about how he isn't respected. That moment may be questionable to write that Four was going easy on them. This still isn't reliable because five other contestants were holding Profile Picture plus Four's magic was pulling Profile Picture upward. Four had plenty of force interfering with him slamming Profile Picture onto the ground, so along with him maybe not trying to injure Profile Picture despite being angry as he's shown with other contestants, I wouldn't use this moment to scale contestants to Four.
Now I will go over all the times contestants were portrayed as inferior to Four. I am deliberately skipping moments when Donut had the factor of Four and I will mention them later. As mentioned before, during BFB 1, Four resisted Pillow fighting him and despawned her as if nothing happened. During BFB 2, Blocky got knocked down by bumping into Four. Keep in mind that Blocky is a very strong contestant. During BFB 4, Four casually blocked Teardrop by putting his hand out. During BFB 6, Stapy angrily threw a fork at Four with very little effect. During BFB 10, David was helpless when Four grabbed him. During BFB 11, Pin got overpowered by Four moving her arm to grab a token from her. During BFB 13, Tree was unable to open Four's mouth in the slightest. During BFB 16, Snowball who is a strong contestant was extremely surprised at Four struggling to do something, and that struggle of sucking in Spongy is regarded as plot-induced stupidity. During BFB 16, it took all the contestants participating in BFB as of that episode to barely save two eliminated contestants being sucked into Four. During BFB 18, Four accidentally killed Lollipop by patting her too hard. During BFB 19, Four stopped the FreeSmart Supervan by simply putting his hand out.
So now of course, I need to explain how the scaling should work. The tiers of the characters will stay very similar. The contestants should simply scale to Donut with the factor of Four instead of directly Four. When Donut had Four's powers, he was not very knowledgable of how to use them. An argument against this is that Donut casually used one of Four's most potent abilities, reality warping, and that recovering characters properly takes practice, so Donut was equal to Four, but I can debunk that idea. Recovery is not the only ability that takes effort. We see that after Four zapped Gelatin many times, he was tired. Four has only ever used individual zaps on other occasions, and that is probably because zapping many times in quick succession drains him. We can see that Four needed to put effort in his motions when he was manipulating the ground to form towers on hills during BFB 18. Despite reality warping being very potent, Four and Donut being able to do it casually means it's not a skill that is difficult to use in the BFDI series. We see effort in using abilities applied to Donut too, in how he needed to put in effort while earthbending Earth into his camera portal, and obviously in how Donut didn't know how to recover contestants. There is even consistency with this, like how it only took a snap for Donut to manipulate gravity, exactly like how Four casually does. This is clearly an actual aspect of Four's abilities. It may be counterintuitive to some debaters, but the potency of an ability does not need to match with how much skill it takes to use it. So, when Donut earthbended Earth into his camera portal, it may have looked like it took some effort, but not too much. When Four manipulated earth to form towers on hills, he did so telekinetically. Perhaps he could have did it casually if he touched the ground, and built only hills instead of fragile towers. Donut having an easier time moving the Earth implies that Four can do it better anyway. On the topic of powerscaling contestants, we can see that, in complete contrast to Four, characters seem to be able to affect Donut perfectly fine. Lollipop was able to chomp Donut's hands, and all eight members of A Better Name Than That were able to stretch Donut's hole. Those two occurrences were during the same episode that Donut moved the Earth, around the scene he did so. It is blatant that the contestants scale to Donut with the factor of Four, while only barely being in the same caliber as Four at most.
So what should the contestants be ranked as? Actually almost the exact same as they are now, but for different reasons. The large town level+ rank can remain the same since Four interferes with none of it. (Though to be honest I think the planetary rank is pretty solid.) The large planet level rank can be scaling to Donut using the factor of Four as well as the Have Nots. The at most large star level rank stems from the feat by the Have Cots and the slight comparability to Four the contestants have shown. As for Four, he should have solely a large star level rank. Large planet level is outdated and only on his profile to preserve the information about it, but it can be preserved by using Four being stronger than Donut using his powers as the reason for it to be there. Donut using the factor of Four should have "at most" in front of large star level, like the contestants, since he scales to them and did not have Four's full power. As for Black Hole (at a small size), the only contestant who is drastically stronger than the rest, I think his rank is fine, though people forgot that he has passive deconstruction which makes it hard to tell exactly how strong he is.
Hopefully this thread is agreeable. Tell me what you think.
First of all, the characters shouldn't have a variable rank. Their power does not vary, their feats do. If the characters varied in power, we can't scale the Have Cots to many other characters. The characters should still be ranked the way they are, but they should have "Varies" removed so it won't imply that they actually vary.
Now for the main topic. For a long time, I have been silent about the tiering for the power of the contestants. I have accepted people scaling the contestants to Four, but I don't actually agree with it very much. Now I'm going to explain it and hope the tiering gets better with my help.
There is a very infamous argument. During BFB 3, Four zaps Gelatin many times without killing him. Seeing all the evidence of contestants not scaling means I could write that this is a mere outlier, but I'll make my explanation more interesting. Four is very known for holding back his power, even when angry, just so the target can feel pain instead of die. This is shown and explained during post-split BFB. During BFB 17, Four got mad at Balloony because he high-fived Lollipop, then he pulled Balloony's fingers to make his hand look how he wants it to look. This is brought up and clarified during BFB 30. Four is more sadistic than murderous. Four usually makes characters hurt than injured with his zapping, seen on other occasions such as during BFB 12, when Gaty got zapped and was more surprised than anything else. We can see that Four's zapping is an attack that is more like raw electrocution rather than a beam attack. Otherwise, it is a beam that he can control the power of. During BFB 4, Death P.A.C.T. stopped doing the challenge to prevent Four from having the minor inconvenience of being poked by forks, by blocking them. Later on in that episode, Bottle was worried that Four would fry the team. The amount of forks was significantly larger than during BFB 3, so it seems that Bottle suggested that Four went easy on Gelatin when three forks poked him during BFB 3, but Four would've really hurt Death P.A.C.T. during BFB 4 if many forks poked him. We can even see Four smiling while zapping Gelatin during BFB 3, so instead of the idea "Gelatin survived attacks from Four when enraged.", it's actually "Four zapped Gelatin to make Gelatin feel pain so Four could cheer up.". That is the kind of stuff we see when the contestants supposedly scale to Four. Another example during BFB 3 is Four smacking Nickel. Four seemed angry, but he must have been resisting his full power to smack Nickel, since Nickel made him angry for something rather insignificant and Nickel needed to be alive for the Cake at Steak so it would've been inconvenient to kill Nickel when everyone was ready.
With the above paragraph in mind, I'll go over all the possible times contestants have been portrayed as comparable to Four. I am deliberately skipping moments when Donut had the factor of Four and I will mention them later. During BFB 1, Liy squished a bump of Four to see what he is made of. Scaling Liy to Four due to that would be like arguing that Majin Buu from Dragon Ball is human level because bullets were able to dent him. Majin Buu being affected bullets was to display his regeneration, like how Liy squishing the side of Four was to display that his body is very malleable. During BFB 1, Pillow fought Four to try and get him to stop screeching. Right after, Four despawned Pillow as if nothing happened, so this isn't reliable evidence of contestants scaling to him. During BFB 6, A Better Name Than That used a sled to push Donut and X into Four to defeat him. That was exploiting a weakness Four has, of being a number that can be multiplied by zero, so that doesn't make them scale to Four. During BFB 15, Four seemed very annoyed at a few members of Death P.A.C.T. sticking their arms out of his mouth from inside of him. However, being annoyed is not getting hurt, and it seemed to be easily temporarily solved during previous occurrences. During BFB 16, the fire of Firey Jr. reached Four and knocked him out. However, that took place inside of Four, which means Four may be internally not as fire resistant as he is externally. Additionally, this can very well of been plot-induced stupidity to have Spongy and Loser escape Four. During BFB 25, Gelatin smacked Four. Four called Gelatin's arm a noodle arm, so while this does suggest some comparability from contestants, it's not very much. During BFB 26, Four violently and angrily slammed Profile Picture down when he was ranting about how he isn't respected. That moment may be questionable to write that Four was going easy on them. This still isn't reliable because five other contestants were holding Profile Picture plus Four's magic was pulling Profile Picture upward. Four had plenty of force interfering with him slamming Profile Picture onto the ground, so along with him maybe not trying to injure Profile Picture despite being angry as he's shown with other contestants, I wouldn't use this moment to scale contestants to Four.
Now I will go over all the times contestants were portrayed as inferior to Four. I am deliberately skipping moments when Donut had the factor of Four and I will mention them later. As mentioned before, during BFB 1, Four resisted Pillow fighting him and despawned her as if nothing happened. During BFB 2, Blocky got knocked down by bumping into Four. Keep in mind that Blocky is a very strong contestant. During BFB 4, Four casually blocked Teardrop by putting his hand out. During BFB 6, Stapy angrily threw a fork at Four with very little effect. During BFB 10, David was helpless when Four grabbed him. During BFB 11, Pin got overpowered by Four moving her arm to grab a token from her. During BFB 13, Tree was unable to open Four's mouth in the slightest. During BFB 16, Snowball who is a strong contestant was extremely surprised at Four struggling to do something, and that struggle of sucking in Spongy is regarded as plot-induced stupidity. During BFB 16, it took all the contestants participating in BFB as of that episode to barely save two eliminated contestants being sucked into Four. During BFB 18, Four accidentally killed Lollipop by patting her too hard. During BFB 19, Four stopped the FreeSmart Supervan by simply putting his hand out.
So now of course, I need to explain how the scaling should work. The tiers of the characters will stay very similar. The contestants should simply scale to Donut with the factor of Four instead of directly Four. When Donut had Four's powers, he was not very knowledgable of how to use them. An argument against this is that Donut casually used one of Four's most potent abilities, reality warping, and that recovering characters properly takes practice, so Donut was equal to Four, but I can debunk that idea. Recovery is not the only ability that takes effort. We see that after Four zapped Gelatin many times, he was tired. Four has only ever used individual zaps on other occasions, and that is probably because zapping many times in quick succession drains him. We can see that Four needed to put effort in his motions when he was manipulating the ground to form towers on hills during BFB 18. Despite reality warping being very potent, Four and Donut being able to do it casually means it's not a skill that is difficult to use in the BFDI series. We see effort in using abilities applied to Donut too, in how he needed to put in effort while earthbending Earth into his camera portal, and obviously in how Donut didn't know how to recover contestants. There is even consistency with this, like how it only took a snap for Donut to manipulate gravity, exactly like how Four casually does. This is clearly an actual aspect of Four's abilities. It may be counterintuitive to some debaters, but the potency of an ability does not need to match with how much skill it takes to use it. So, when Donut earthbended Earth into his camera portal, it may have looked like it took some effort, but not too much. When Four manipulated earth to form towers on hills, he did so telekinetically. Perhaps he could have did it casually if he touched the ground, and built only hills instead of fragile towers. Donut having an easier time moving the Earth implies that Four can do it better anyway. On the topic of powerscaling contestants, we can see that, in complete contrast to Four, characters seem to be able to affect Donut perfectly fine. Lollipop was able to chomp Donut's hands, and all eight members of A Better Name Than That were able to stretch Donut's hole. Those two occurrences were during the same episode that Donut moved the Earth, around the scene he did so. It is blatant that the contestants scale to Donut with the factor of Four, while only barely being in the same caliber as Four at most.
So what should the contestants be ranked as? Actually almost the exact same as they are now, but for different reasons. The large town level+ rank can remain the same since Four interferes with none of it. (Though to be honest I think the planetary rank is pretty solid.) The large planet level rank can be scaling to Donut using the factor of Four as well as the Have Nots. The at most large star level rank stems from the feat by the Have Cots and the slight comparability to Four the contestants have shown. As for Four, he should have solely a large star level rank. Large planet level is outdated and only on his profile to preserve the information about it, but it can be preserved by using Four being stronger than Donut using his powers as the reason for it to be there. Donut using the factor of Four should have "at most" in front of large star level, like the contestants, since he scales to them and did not have Four's full power. As for Black Hole (at a small size), the only contestant who is drastically stronger than the rest, I think his rank is fine, though people forgot that he has passive deconstruction which makes it hard to tell exactly how strong he is.
Hopefully this thread is agreeable. Tell me what you think.
I still think we should keep large planet level for contestants because of Donut using Four's powers being like that and not knowing how to use Four's powers. I'm sure I can work something out.
