Ben 10 General Discussion Thread

[Ghengiroo115]

Imgur being banned in the UK makes profile revisions way more annoying. Thankfully i remember which link goes to where in my Eon revision, which is actually almost done now that I figured out how references work.

I’ve been working on this thing for like a year and a half now, which is actually not the worst I’ve procrastinated on something.

 

[Alexander]

Imgur being banned in the UK makes profile revisions way more annoying. Thankfully i remember which link goes to where in my Eon revision, which is actually almost done now that I figured out how references work.

I’ve been working on this thing for like a year and a half now, which is actually not the worst I’ve procrastinated on something.

let me guess, UK rules?

 

[Ghengiroo115]

let me guess, UK rules?

From what I understand looking into it, Imgur was looked into due to how they were handling the information of their users (particularly minors), prompting them to block access for UK users so they could avoid responsibility.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

a thought about the Sub-Energy: we currently scale it to High 6-A by multiplying one second of the Sun’s energy by 20, which makes sense to me. However wouldn’t this then make the collective power of the entire thing (which Upchuck can contain) High 4-C?

 

[Hellformer]

a thought about the Sub-Energy: we currently scale it to High 6-A by multiplying one second of the Sun’s energy by 20, which makes sense to me. However wouldn’t this then make the collective power of the entire thing (which Upchuck can contain) High 4-C?

Elaborate

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Elaborate

The Sun lets out a certain amount of energy every second, but obviously not all of its energy at once. If the Sub-Energy is 20x as powerful, then wouldn’t it make sense for its base output (AKA Forever King’s attacks) to be the High 6-A rating it currently uses, while it’s total amount of energy (what Upchuck eats) would be based on the total energy of the Sun?

Maybe I’m wrong about this, but it was just an idea that came to me just now. It’s mainly for my personal scaling since characters scale way above this on the wiki.

 

[Hellformer]

The Sun lets out a certain amount of energy every second, but obviously not all of its energy at once. If the Sub-Energy is 20x as powerful, then wouldn’t it make sense for its base output (AKA Forever King’s attacks) to be the High 6-A rating it currently uses, while it’s total amount of energy (what Upchuck eats) would be based on the total energy of the Sun?

Maybe I’m wrong about this, but it was just an idea that came to me just now. It’s mainly for my personal scaling since characters scale way above this on the wiki.

Makes sense to me as of now
Tier 4 Ben 10 being more consistent makes me happy for some reason

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Makes sense to me as of now
Tier 4 Ben 10 being more consistent makes me happy for some reason

Does anyone even scale to peak Upchuck aside from Ultimate Albedo

 

[Hellformer]

Does anyone even scale to peak Upchuck aside from Ultimate Albedo

He's never implied of being extremely powerful, and we see him transforming into Ultimate Spidermonkey to fight Shocksquatch instead of using his energy beam.
And BTW I'm planning to upgrade OS Aliens to High 5-A because the current big tick durability interpretation is messed up. We see his legs spreading throughout the planet and yet he survives it point blank. His shell shouldn't be weaker than his legs therefore his dura should scale to H5-A instead of H6-A.
Let me know what everyone thinks about it.

 

[GeneralSol16]

Does anyone even scale to peak Upchuck aside from Ultimate Albedo

Upchuck is considered a week alien by Ben, along with Stinkfly and Goop.
So yeah, he should scale below Ben's Heavy Hitters.

 

[GeneralSol16]

The Sun lets out a certain amount of energy every second, but obviously not all of its energy at once. If the Sub-Energy is 20x as powerful, then wouldn’t it make sense for its base output (AKA Forever King’s attacks) to be the High 6-A rating it currently uses, while it’s total amount of energy (what Upchuck eats) would be based on the total energy of the Sun?

Maybe I’m wrong about this, but it was just an idea that came to me just now. It’s mainly for my personal scaling since characters scale way above this on the wiki.

But does the sun produce that much energy by second? Because that's what it would be evaluated here.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

He's never implied of being extremely powerful, and we see him transforming into Ultimate Spidermonkey to fight Shocksquatch instead of using his energy beam.

Fair

And BTW I'm planning to upgrade OS Aliens to High 5-A because the current big tick durability interpretation is messed up. We see his legs spreading throughout the planet and yet he survives it point blank. His shell shouldn't be weaker than his legs therefore his dura should scale to H5-A instead of H6-A.
Let me know what everyone thinks about it.

Damn that messes up my personal scaling a bit, I can see the thought process there though.

Upchuck is considered a week alien by Ben, along with Stinkfly and Goop.
So yeah, he should scale below Ben's Heavy Hitters.

I meant his highest level of absorption, not his average strength.

But does the sun produce that much energy by second? Because that's what it would be evaluated here.

The current High 6-A value is based on the energy the Sun produces in a second, but since the Sub-Energy is a power source it wouldn’t be letting out all its power at once or else it would run out. At least that was my thought process.

 

[GeneralSol16]

I meant his highest level of absorption, not his average strength.

Sure, but if he's considered a less useful alien than those who just punch, means that his level of Absortion is kinda irrelevant, something curious since he can practically eat anything lol.

Wlso, Eye Guy tanked one of Albedo:s blast, which were capacie of overloading Upchuck, so Ben's aliens would upscale no matter what.

The current High 6-A value is based on the energy the Sun produces in a second, but since the Sub-Energy is a power source it wouldn’t be letting out all its power at once or else it would run out. At least that was my thought process.

Can you explain how would that work? How would you get that value?

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Can you explain how would that work? How would you get that value?

Idk what actually makes sense, but I figured just using the Sun’s “per second” value for individual attacks and the Sun’s total energy for the whole thing that Upchuck ate. Maybe that doesn’t work, but meh this was little more than just a random thought I had.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Is there anything in either Classic or Reboot that contradicts the two sharing a multiverse? I’ve already found multiple statements saying they do, but I want to be sure there’s no contradictions.

 

[Hellformer]

Is there anything in either Classic or Reboot that contradicts the two sharing a multiverse? I’ve already found multiple statements saying they do, but I want to be sure there’s no contradictions.

Reboot's Omniverse is shown to cap at 16-17 timelines.
Classic Omniverse is beyond the Universe which in turn encompasses infinite timelines.
That's the major difference

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Reboot's Omniverse is shown to cap at 16-17 timelines.
Classic Omniverse is beyond the Universe which in turn encompasses infinite timelines.
That's the major difference

Ah right, I remember that now.

I think they can still be in different Annihilarrgh universes, but if that’s the case then they probably can’t cross-scale with each other.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

A question has come to mind. Humungousaur performs his 4-B feat in Ultimate Alien Season 1. Why is his Alien Force form considered this level as well? Don't characters in the Ben 10 series become very powerful in a short time? I'm thinking of making a CRT about AP and LS. That's why I wanted to ask you first.

 

[Hellformer]

A question has come to mind. Humungousaur performs his 4-B feat in Ultimate Alien Season 1. Why is his Alien Force form considered this level as well? Don't characters in the Ben 10 series become very powerful in a short time? I'm thinking of making a CRT about AP and LS. That's why I wanted to ask you first.

You would have to create seperate key for each season in each series and also quantify the power gap.

 

[GeneralSol16]

Idk what actually makes sense, but I figured just using the Sun’s “per second” value for individual attacks and the Sun’s total energy for the whole thing that Upchuck ate. Maybe that doesn’t work, but meh this was little more than just a random thought I had.

You mean the total amount of energy that the Sun produces throughout its existence?

 

[GeneralSol16]

A question has come to mind. Humungousaur performs his 4-B feat in Ultimate Alien Season 1. Why is his Alien Force form considered this level as well? Don't characters in the Ben 10 series become very powerful in a short time? I'm thinking of making a CRT about AP and LS. That's why I wanted to ask you first.

Yes, that's how it works.
The best way would be separimh every feat perfumed in each series as its basis.
OS power level.
AF being 10x OS.
uA being tier 4
OV being 10x stronger than UA (New Omnitrix turns Ben into the apex, strongest specimen of each race and are capable of keeping up with Anodite Gwen)

 

[Firestorm808]

At the moment, I'm compiling all the scaling chains, but I need to include the various reasons and scaling interactions (fights, etc)

I'll also be compiling the alleged scaling feats that led to "baseline humans in Ben 10" getting Tier 4 and 5 ratings for ease of understanding.

Ben 10 - Scaling Chains

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[GeneralSol16]

At the moment, I'm compiling all the scaling chains, but I need to include the various reasons and scaling interactions (fights, etc)

I'll also be compiling the alleged scaling feats that led to "baseline humans in Ben 10" getting Tier 4 and 5 ratings for ease of understanding.

Ben 10 - Scaling Chains

vsbattles.fandom.com

I've some questions / observations.

1. Why is Atomix equallh to Way Big? Currently, he's accepted as being comparable to Malgax, who was stated to be stronger than most of Ben's aliens, and a weaker version of the Armor could keep up with two To'kustars.

2. Why is OS Way Big on the same level as UAF Way Big? Afaik, there's no way to scale him the same way as his teen self.

3. Why are Atomix and Ultimate Way Big being compared? There's no way to know who's the strongest between the two, both just upscale from base Way Big.

 

[Firestorm808]

I've some questions / observations.

1. Why is Atomix equallh to Way Big? Currently, he's accepted as being comparable to Malgax, who was stated to be stronger than most of Ben's aliens, and a weaker version of the Armor could keep up with two To'kustars.

2. Why is OS Way Big on the same level as UAF Way Big? Afaik, there's no way to scale him the same way as his teen self.

3. Why are Atomix and Ultimate Way Big being compared? There's no way to know who's the strongest between the two, both just upscale from base Way Big.

1. This was the general consensus from Tier 4 thread, but we can also say Way Big ≤ Atomix since Atomix was Ben's "best shot" against Malgax sans Feedback.
2. As shown in Destroy All Aliens, Ben as Way Big vs Azmuth as Way Big were fairly comparable. Age didn't seem to show a significant change in power.
3. Sorry. That was a type. It's supposed to be Way Big < Ultimate Way Big

On another note, there is no explanation for Way Big's and Dagon's 4-A scaling chain on their profiles. Where is this from?

 

[Ghengiroo115]

On another note, there is no explanation for Way Big's and Dagon's 4-A scaling chain on their profiles. Where is this from?

I’m guessing it’s extrapolated from how Ultimate Kevin’s AP was calculated, though I don’t know what the exact numbers are as I can’t find where that’s explained. Way Big would at least upscale from the Ultimate Kevin level characters which are currently rated as 4-B+.

 

[Firestorm808]

I’m guessing it’s extrapolated from how Ultimate Kevin’s AP was calculated, though I don’t know what the exact numbers are as I can’t find where that’s explained. Way Big would at least upscale from the Ultimate Kevin level characters which are currently rated as 4-B+.

Will document the original derived calc in the blog to properly link it in the profiles.

 

[Hellformer]

1. This was the general consensus from Tier 4 thread, but we can also say Way Big ≤ Atomix since Atomix was Ben's "best shot" against Malgax sans Feedback.
2. As shown in Destroy All Aliens, Ben as Way Big vs Azmuth as Way Big were fairly comparable. Age didn't seem to show a significant change in power.
3. Sorry. That was a type. It's supposed to be Way Big < Ultimate Way Big

On another note, there is no explanation for Way Big's and Dagon's 4-A scaling chain on their profiles. Where is this from?

Here

 

[Hellformer]

Will document the original derived calc in the blog to properly link it in the profiles.

Ben 10: Tier 4 Upgrade

Seeing all the arguments and problems, Which problem?

vsbattles.com

Incase the above link doesn't work

 

[Lort15]

Will document the original derived calc in the blog to properly link it in the profiles.

you changed Annihilarrg to 1B again but you forgot the cosmology revision it is still suppost to be at least 1-C (6-D) likely 1-B (25-D)

Ben 10 Cosmology

This page will cover Ben 10 Terminology and Cosmology. This page will use statements from the Ben 10 series, Novels, and Other verified information from secondary sources that are supported by the show. It will go over the Each Term and what each term mean and their supposed Inconsistencies...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Hellformer]

you changed Annihilarrg to 1B again but you forgot the cosmology revision it is still suppost to be at least 1-C (6-D) likely 1-B (25-D)

Ben 10 Cosmology

This page will cover Ben 10 Terminology and Cosmology. This page will use statements from the Ben 10 series, Novels, and Other verified information from secondary sources that are supported by the show. It will go over the Each Term and what each term mean and their supposed Inconsistencies...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Firestorm could precog my new cosmo upgrade and made the revision before the crt

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

New episode of

 

[Firestorm808]

4-A Profiles Updated

you changed Annihilarrg to 1B again but you forgot the cosmology revision it is still suppost to be at least 1-C (6-D) likely 1-B (25-D)

Ben 10 Cosmology

This page will cover Ben 10 Terminology and Cosmology. This page will use statements from the Ben 10 series, Novels, and Other verified information from secondary sources that are supported by the show. It will go over the Each Term and what each term mean and their supposed Inconsistencies...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Rolled back. Will adjust wording on profiles to distinguish which part of the cosmology it is referring to.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Do we know what the minimum strength difference for a stomp in Ben 10 is? Or at least an idea of how strong you’d need to be.

 

[Firestorm808]

Do we know what the minimum strength difference for a stomp in Ben 10 is? Or at least an idea of how strong you’d need to be.

My current assumption is 10x since AF Ben was overconfident in fighting what he thought was OS level Vilgax only to find out he was 10x stronger than he thought.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

My current assumption is 10x since AF Ben was overconfident in fighting what he thought was OS level Vilgax only to find out he was 10x stronger than he thought.

So there’s 6x based on Ultimate Aggregor vs Humungousaur and 10x based on this. I wonder if there’s a lower minimum.

 

[Hellformer]

Do we know what the minimum strength difference for a stomp in Ben 10 is? Or at least an idea of how strong you’d need to be.

Around 4.3 because Atomix's AP divided by Ultimate Humungousaur's AP is equal to that.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Around 4.3 because Atomix's AP divided by Ultimate Humungousaur's AP is equal to that.

So that’s three instances above 4x. Would a stomp in Ben 10 be possible with around a 2x boost or would u need more?

 

[Hellformer]

So that’s three instances above 4x. Would a stomp in Ben 10 be possible with around a 2x boost or would u need more?

I don't remember any instance where 2x gap is a stomp

 

[GeneralSol16]

1. This was the general consensus from Tier 4 thread, but we can also say Way Big ≤ Atomix since Atomix was Ben's "best shot" against Malgax sans Feedback.

Yep

1. As shown in Destroy All Aliens, Ben as Way Big vs Azmuth as Way Big were fairly comparable. Age didn't seem to show a significant change in power.

This actually makes sense. Especially if you pay attention to how Ben's parents reacted to being turned into aliens, they performed better feats than Ben as those aliens, like Heatblast (don't remember if it was his dad or mom) being able to melt / shatter Tetrax's constructs, something that Kid Heatblast couldn't do with a weaker and younger Petrosapien, so Azmuth being hundreds of years older than Ben would mean he's "stronger" than even Ben 10K's Way Big, but he was shown on the same level as Ben.

1. Sorry. That was a type. It's supposed to be Way Big < Ultimate Way Big

Dw

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

1. As shown in Destroy All Aliens, Ben as Way Big vs Azmuth as Way Big were fairly comparable. Age didn't seem to show a significant change in power.

I know this film is non-canon. There was a writer's statement saying Alien Swarm is non-canon, but if we accept AS as non-canon, we need to consider at least three episodes of Ultimate Alien plus the Ultimate Swampfire vs. Red scene as non-canon. Since the author's statement contradicts the episodes, I believe AS is canon, but there doesn't seem to be a contradiction for DAA. If so, please let me know.