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Ben 10 General Discussion Thread

Lort15 said:
dawg at least wait for Hellformer's crt's end
Click to expand...
Yes, I said I'm gonna wait.
Lort15 said:
yeah this would cause a lot of disaster for tiers, ov has a lot of characters from classic also as well as UAF
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All of them had power-ups / growth in power.

Gwen and Kevin, for example, were expanding their abilities throughout the franchise (Everytime Gwen uses more magic, she gets stronger thanks to mastering his anodite power, meanwhile, Kevin improves his absorption, seem when he needed a lot of what he absorbs to just cover his body, while in OV, he just needs something pocket size and turns into the material as a whole)
 
GeneralSol16 said:
Yes, I said I'm gonna wait.

All of them had power-ups / growth in power.

Gwen and Kevin, for example, were expanding their abilities throughout the franchise (Everytime Gwen uses more magic, she gets stronger thanks to mastering his anodite power, meanwhile, Kevin improves his absorption, seem when he needed a lot of what he absorbs to just cover his body, while in OV, he just needs something pocket size and turns into the material as a whole)
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Not exactly some of villains like Vulcanus hasn't showed about they got power up also OV Vilgax has lost his powers which taken from the heroes but he is still able to keep up with ov chars
 
GeneralSol16 said:
Vulkanus got stomped by rupjes, a low tier even in classic.
Clearly that doesn't affect a thing.
Click to expand...
He fought with Gwen, Kevin and Ben in uaf as well as in OV too
GeneralSol16 said:
He got new ones, is not the same as OS or UAF.
Click to expand...
Yeah but much weaker than UAF's might be comparable to his OS form also He literally defeated XLR8 and took a lot of hits from molestuck in ov's last episode and Vilgax in that episode wasn't advenced like he is now (Vilgax was from the past) he was much weaker than his OS form
 
Lort15 said:
He fought with Gwen, Kevin and Ben in uaf as well as in OV too.
Click to expand...
He only fought an early AF Ben, never in UA and got stomped by low tiers in OV.
Lort15 said:
Yeah but much weaker than UAF's might be comparable to his OS form
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Source? We only know that he lost his AF powers, it was never said he's weaker.
Lort15 said:
He literally defeated XLR8 and took a lot of hits from molestuck in ov's last episode and Vilgax in that episode wasn't advenced like he is now (Vilgax was from the past) he was much weaker than his OS form
Click to expand...
That's an inconsistency, it doesn't matter the angle of the argument.
 
GeneralSol16 said:
He only fought an early AF Ben, never in UA and got stomped by low tiers in OV.
Click to expand...


He also fought with Ben in ov, i will send scans when ı'm avaliable on pc
GeneralSol16 said:
Source? We only know that he lost his AF powers, it was never said he's weaker.
Click to expand...
Why do you think OV form is better than UAF? He clearly has better feats in UAF like defating a lot of Ben's aliens meanwhile ov Vilgax was struggling with kickin hawk lol
GeneralSol16 said:
That's an inconsistency, it doesn't matter the angle of the argument.
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Not at all, you should prove it to be inconsistency the every feat like that then because there is a lot
 
Lort15 said:
Click to expand...

Ben used Swampfire, is not like he is one of his top Tiers tbh.
And Ben one shot him.
Lort15 said:
He also fought with Ben in ov, i will send scans when ı'm avaliable on pc
Click to expand...
Ben as Humungouaaur overpowered Fisttina and Vulkanus at the same, casually.
Lort15 said:
Why do you think OV form is better than UAF? He clearly has better feats in UAF like defating a lot of Ben's aliens meanwhile ov Vilgax was struggling with kickin hawk lol
Click to expand...
Because surviving hits from OV aliens, who are stronger than UAF aliens, is a better feat.
Lort15 said:
Not at all, you should prove it to be inconsistency the every feat like that then because there is a lot
Click to expand...
Just UAF Ben is 10x stronger than OS Ben, who is comparable to Cyborg Vilgax, who is way stronger than the Vilgax that Max fought (literally, Cyborg Vilgax tanked a blast powerful enough to kill him in his prevoous form).

So, clearly an Inconsistency
 
Success0906 said:
And how will you prove this?
Click to expand...
Derrick J Wyatt states that under his perspective, The Omnitrix (from OV) turns Ben into the apex of the race, something like the superhero of each speciesh. Which is supported by Matt Wayne's statement, since during Omniverse era, said that the aliens from the Omnitrix are the optimized version" of the race.

Throughout OV, Ben constantly gets the upper hand against the strongest specimens of each race, like against Looma, Attea, or Lord Transyl, all of them being the strongest of each race, but still inferior to Ben's aliens. Meanwhile, Ben got his butt kicked by practically any adult version of his aliens throughout OS and UAF, like against Kolar, an average Tetramand or Tetrax, an average Petrosapien, the only thing in common being just they being older than Ben.

The Omnitrix turns Ben into the peak of each alien no matter his age or conditions, as seen when he got turned into a 11 years old, instead of his aliens getting younger too like before, they stayed exactly the same. Which shows how independent they are from Ben's age now.

Ben's alien reached their full potential by the time of the new Omnitrix, as seen with Swampfire's new form, and we saw how an avarage version of a Methanosian would look like when not being a apex of the race.
 
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GeneralSol16 said:
Derrick J Wyatt states that under his perspective, The Omnitrix (from OV) turns Ben into the apex of the race, something like the superhero of each species. Which is supported by Matt Wayne's statement, since during Omniverse era, said that the aliens from the Omnitrix are the optimized version" of the race.

Throughout OV, Ben constantly gets the upper hand against the strongest specimens of each face, like against Looma, Attea, or Lord Transyl, all of them being the supreme of each face, but still inferior to Ben's aliens. Meanwhile, Ben got his butt kicked by practically any adult version of his aliens throughout OS and UAF, like against Kolar, an average Tetramand or Tetrax, an average Petrosapien, the only thing in common being just they bring older than Ben.

The Omnitrix turns Ben into the peak of each alien no matter his age or conditions, as seen when he got turned into a 11 years old, instead of his aliens getting younger too like before, they stayed exactly the same. Which shows how independent they are from Ben's age now.B

Ben's alien reached their full potential by the time of the new Omnitrix, as seen with Swampfire's new form, and we saw how an avarage version of a Methanosian would look like when not being a apex of the race.
Click to expand...
to tell the truth no since all the Omnitrix transforms Ben into the pinnacle of the species a good example of this is in the classic Ben 10 where Ben unlocks the Cannonbolt The Big Tick if you look and it is said that The Big Tick destroyed the planet of the Arburian Pelarota which would not make sense because even if they were a peaceful race it is not possible that none of the millions of Arburian Pelarota could not defeat The Big Tick while Ben who just unlocked this alien was already able to defeat/destroy The Big Tick proving even more that in the other series the be also transforms into the pinnacle of the species in any Omnitrix
 
GeneralSol16 said:
Derrick J Wyatt states that under his perspective, The Omnitrix (from OV) turns Ben into the apex of the race, something like the superhero of each species. Which is supported by Matt Wayne's statement, since during Omniverse era, said that the aliens from the Omnitrix are the optimized version" of the race.

Throughout OV, Ben constantly gets the upper hand against the strongest specimens of each face, like against Looma, Attea, or Lord Transyl, all of them being the supreme of each face, but still inferior to Ben's aliens. Meanwhile, Ben got his butt kicked by practically any adult version of his aliens throughout OS and UAF, like against Kolar, an average Tetramand or Tetrax, an average Petrosapien, the only thing in common being just they bring older than Ben.

The Omnitrix turns Ben into the peak of each alien no matter his age or conditions, as seen when he got turned into a 11 years old, instead of his aliens getting younger too like before, they stayed exactly the same. Which shows how independent they are from Ben's age now.B

Ben's alien reached their full potential by the time of the new Omnitrix, as seen with Swampfire's new form, and we saw how an avarage version of a Methanosian would look like when not being a apex of the race.
Click to expand...
and also let's agree that other aliens/villains like Tetrax for example end up surpassing the Omnitrix aliens because Ben doesn't develop the knowledge he has with most of them and also because he only knows the basics of the alien like here he doesn't gain 100% of the knowledge of said alien


 
jgms2008 said:
to tell the truth no since all the Omnitrix transforms Ben into the pinnacle of the species a good example of this is in the classic Ben 10 where Ben unlocks the Cannonbolt The Big Tick if you look and it is said that The Big Tick destroyed the planet of the Arburian Pelarota which would not make sense because even if they were a peaceful race it is not possible that none of the millions of Arburian Pelarota could not defeat The Big Tick while Ben who just unlocked this alien was already able to defeat/destroy The Big Tick proving even more that in the other series the be also transforms into the pinnacle of the species in any Omnitrix
Click to expand...

Yeah, you're wrong.

It was confirmed during OS and UAF that Ben is just an average 10 / 16 years old or whatever your age is of the species

So, Ben was never the peak of the race during the first three series, but OV Ben is.
 
GeneralSol16 said:
Derrick J Wyatt states that under his perspective, The Omnitrix (from OV) turns Ben into the apex of the race, something like the superhero of each species. Which is supported by Matt Wayne's statement, since during Omniverse era, said that the aliens from the Omnitrix are the optimized version" of the race.

Throughout OV, Ben constantly gets the upper hand against the strongest specimens of each face, like against Looma, Attea, or Lord Transyl, all of them being the supreme of each face, but still inferior to Ben's aliens. Meanwhile, Ben got his butt kicked by practically any adult version of his aliens throughout OS and UAF, like against Kolar, an average Tetramand or Tetrax, an average Petrosapien, the only thing in common being just they bring older than Ben.

The Omnitrix turns Ben into the peak of each alien no matter his age or conditions, as seen when he got turned into a 11 years old, instead of his aliens getting younger too like before, they stayed exactly the same. Which shows how independent they are from Ben's age now.B

Ben's alien reached their full potential by the time of the new Omnitrix, as seen with Swampfire's new form, and we saw how an avarage version of a Methanosian would look like when not being a apex of the race.
Click to expand...
This matt wayne statement was asked for Ultimatrix actually, the question is literally reffering to Forge of Creation, "Omnitrix always gives the adult form" he didn't specifically say for completed omnitrix this can be count for prototype too
 
Lort15 said:
This matt wayne statement was asked for Ultimatrix actually, the question is literally reffering to Forge of Creation, "Omnitrix always gives the adult form" he didn't specifically say for completed omnitrix this can be count for prototype too
Click to expand...
No.

The question is about UA, sure, but he refers to the Omnitrix and the question is during OV, clearly he is referring to that.

Especially when we have a lot of examples of Prototype Omnitrix and Recalibrated just Turing Ben into average aliens of his age, and more support evidence of OVTrix doing the opposite.
 
vsbattles.fandom.com

Tetrax Shard

The Omnitrix is not some toy for your amusement. It's the most powerful weapon in the galaxy, the key to an epic battle between good and evil.Tetrax to Ben Tetrax Shard was a Petrosapien mercenary, now changed into a remover of evil in the Milky Way. Tier: 5-A | 5-A Key: Original Series | Alien...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com



I mean Tetrax no-diffed 10-year-old Diamondhead (with his profile acknowledging he's stronger), so what wouldn't that go against every Omnitrix alien being the peak of their species?
 
Maverick_Zero_X said:
vsbattles.fandom.com

Tetrax Shard

The Omnitrix is not some toy for your amusement. It's the most powerful weapon in the galaxy, the key to an epic battle between good and evil.Tetrax to Ben Tetrax Shard was a Petrosapien mercenary, now changed into a remover of evil in the Milky Way. Tier: 5-A | 5-A Key: Original Series | Alien...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com



I mean Tetrax no-diffed 10-year-old Diamondhead (with his profile acknowledging he's stronger), so what wouldn't that go against every Omnitrix alien being the peak of their species?
Click to expand...

It would for every Omnitrix prior to OV, since that's the one that turns Ben into peak aliens.
Which is from where all the "Ben is always the best of his race" thing came from.
 
GeneralSol16 said:
No.

The question is about UA, sure, but he refers to the Omnitrix and the question is during OV, clearly he is referring to that.

Especially when we have a lot of examples of Prototype Omnitrix and Recalibrated just Turing Ben into average aliens of his age, and more support evidence of OVTrix doing the opposite.
Click to expand...
I see the scenes makes sense but there is a lot of antifeats about that i can count, like 10 Years old Heatblast taking hit from NRG (not getting one shot), able to defeat Kevin and could break Gwen's shield, if we consired alien's years by human standarts we can count this as 18 at least and between 16-18 isn't a big age GAP antifeats must be because of this
 
Lort15 said:
I see the scenes makes sense but there is a lot of antifeats about that i can count, like 10 Years old Heatblast taking hit from NRG (not getting one shot), able to defeat Kevin and could break Gwen's shield, if we consired alien's years by human standarts we can count this as 18 at least and between 16-18 isn't a big age GAP antifeats must be because of this
Click to expand...
That's just inconsistency, it doesn't matter if you count this or anything else, even by current standards Teen Ben is ten times stronger than Kid Ben.
 
GeneralSol16 said:
That's just inconsistency, it doesn't matter if you count this or anything else, even by current standards Teen Ben is ten times stronger than Kid Ben.
Click to expand...
Man you can't say inconsistency to every scene like that until if there is a few but there is a lot
 
Hellformer said:
I straight up disagree with separating UAF and OV counterparts
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Any actual argument for that? Because that doesn't count at all.
Lort15 said:
Man you can't say inconsistency to every scene like that until if there is a few but there is a lot
Click to expand...
If you have a problem with that, then you have a problem with the entire verse.

Is clearly that is an inconsistency when repeatedly times they say Ben gets a lot stronger with age, his weaker aliens being on par with his current forms doesn't make sense

Actually, this problem was solved a long time ago here, so, you need better arguments.
 
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