Hellformer
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By this metric, one can say that the feat is only tier 3-B to 3-A just because we were shown galaxies moving around but that's horrendously wrong as all know. So isn't it better to dig into the lore?
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Ben 10 - Annihilargg
- Thread starter DonkeySlayer06
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Ghengiroo115
She/Her- 1,752
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See I don’t think that’s the same thing. We know that Alien X recreated both the galaxies and everything else, but we only see the galaxies be moved by him. If Alien X snapped his fingers to create a galaxy-sized smoothie, it would only be an LS feat if he actually moved it around as well.
Basically I’m kinda of the mind that most of his feat doesn’t involve LS shenanigans so his LS wouldn’t be Immeasurable, but as I’ve said already I’m not the best with LS stuff so let’s just drop it for now and see if anyone else wants to chime in.
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Hellformer
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That would be great but staffs aren't here
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Hellformer
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@Ghengiroo115
Wang ling has Immeasurable LS because each of his cells are universes.
S̶h̶o̶u̶l̶d̶n̶'t̶ A̶l̶i̶e̶n̶ X̶ g̶e̶t̶ t̶h̶a̶t̶ a̶s̶ w̶e̶l̶l̶ f̶o̶r̶ h̶o̶l̶d̶i̶n̶g̶ a̶ 2̶6̶-̶D̶ p̶o̶c̶k̶e̶t̶ d̶i̶m̶e̶n̶s̶i̶o̶n̶ a̶s̶s̶u̶m̶i̶n̶g̶ t̶h̶i̶s̶ t̶h̶r̶e̶a̶d̶ g̶e̶t̶s̶ a̶c̶c̶e̶p̶t̶e̶d̶
Ik the argument is very bad
Wang ling has Immeasurable LS because each of his cells are universes.
S̶h̶o̶u̶l̶d̶n̶'t̶ A̶l̶i̶e̶n̶ X̶ g̶e̶t̶ t̶h̶a̶t̶ a̶s̶ w̶e̶l̶l̶ f̶o̶r̶ h̶o̶l̶d̶i̶n̶g̶ a̶ 2̶6̶-̶D̶ p̶o̶c̶k̶e̶t̶ d̶i̶m̶e̶n̶s̶i̶o̶n̶ a̶s̶s̶u̶m̶i̶n̶g̶ t̶h̶i̶s̶ t̶h̶r̶e̶a̶d̶ g̶e̶t̶s̶ a̶c̶c̶e̶p̶t̶e̶d̶
Ik the argument is very bad
Aolphl
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Lifting Strength
Lifting Strength is defined as the mass that an individual can lift on Earth. In other words it measures the amount of upwards force a character can produce. As such pushing and pulling feats are also considered a part of this statistic, granted they are properly calculated to account for the...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Hellformer
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Then Wang ling's profile should be revised and immeasurable LS should be removed. Shouldn't it?Lifting Strength
Lifting Strength is defined as the mass that an individual can lift on Earth. In other words it measures the amount of upwards force a character can produce. As such pushing and pulling feats are also considered a part of this statistic, granted they are properly calculated to account for the...
Aolphl
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I don't have knowledge about the verse, but if this is the only Immeasurable argument, it should be removed.
Hellformer
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Bump
Hellformer
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Bump
Hellformer
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Bump
Hellformer
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Bump
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Although I called Admin and moderators but no one came back. It's sad...
Hellformer
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We need Firestorm but he's busy
Hellformer
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Bump
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Has the difference between the white void vs the black void been determined?
Hellformer
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Ghengiroo115
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I wasn’t around when the Annihilarrgh was decided to scale this way and nothing in the wiki pages themselves seems to explain why there’s a separation, so I personally don’t know whether there’s any difference that would affect the Annihilarrgh’s AP or not.
Hellformer
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I don't know about difference in the black and white voids but what I can see from this thread is that Mr Smoothie's logo was changed in other universes implying Annihilarrgh destroys all of time stream and isn't limited to 1 universe.
Ghengiroo115
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So I did some sleuthing around the Ben 10 wiki’s gallery pages, and unless I’m missing something this might actually be untrue? From what I can see No Watch Ben’s Mr. Smoothies uses the old design and so does Ben 23’s Mr. Gyro (aside from the obvious branding difference). Also the past Mr. Smoothies in Ben Again uses the old design as well, meaning the changes only apply to stuff after the Annihilarrgh went off (mentioning just in case that changes anything).
Question, when is it shown that the Mr. Smoothies change happened in other timelines (or any other changes caused by Alien X)?
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Hellformer
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I myself don't know what's the truth. I just wrote down whatever I could see in this thread
Hellformer
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@DonkeySlayer06 Yo can you clear this up?
Hellformer
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Ghengiroo115
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That’s Professor Hokestar’s dimension-hopping Mr. Smoothies, which comes from the Prime timeline.
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Can you explain why it's not leaving behind a Black Void with the Rainbow Streaks?
If not, then it's basically destroying all Timelines in the Space Beyond which is still 2-A.
If not, then it's basically destroying all Timelines in the Space Beyond which is still 2-A.
Ghengiroo115
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I’m confused on what you mean.
Yeah I feel it should at least be 2-A based on Ben’s “everything I know, everything there is” statement, which comes after learning about both infinite timelines and the Space Beyond. 2-A does feel like a weird and random level for it to have, but since there’s issues with 2-B/2-A and potentially issues with 1-B it might be the best option we have.
Ghengiroo115
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Personally my heart still says it should be 1-B due to all the evidence in favour of it, but the changes seemingly being only in the Prime timeline only at points in time after the bomb went off kinda throws a wrench in that (aside from No Watch Ben having the white hoodie that seemed to have been created by Alien X, but idk if that’s enough to argue Alien X affecting other timelines). Bellicus could’ve just purposely changed some things in the Prime timeline to troll Ben, but I think that’s treading into headcanon territory (albeit a decently popular one) so it’s not really something you can use as a proper argument. If there are changes carried over into other timelines that none of us can think of at the moment then maybe it’ll be different, but for now it seems kinda shaky even with everything supporting it.
Hellformer
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Yeah honestly it seems a 50-50
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Even if it affected other timelines, how does that get it to Tier 1?
Ghengiroo115
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The main arguments for the destruction being 1-B are:
- The creation and destruction effects are treated as equal by Rook and Ben when they first figure out that the effect depends on whether a universe already exists or not. I unfortunately can’t find a clip of it right now, but by paraphrasing Rook says something like “from the stories I have heard, the Contumelia go around destroying Universes and not creating them” and Ben responds by saying “but if there is no Universe, then the Annihilarrrrrrgh will create it”. The most important thing is how they use the word Universe for both the destruction and creation process, with that same word being used every time in relation to the Annihilarrgh throughout A New Dawn, So Long And Thanks For All The Smoothies and Universe V Tennyson (the three episodes where the Annihilarrgh is relevant). Since Rook and Ben treat the two processes as equals and both the Contumelia and Maltruant refer to the creation process as creating a Universe, it would suggest that the two processes are one and the same.
- While it isn’t exactly explained why the process is different, the most likely reason for this occurring (at least from what I can think of) is because the new Universe the Annihilarrgh is trying to create is cancelling out the one that already exists. Since the Annihilarrgh creates 1-B structures, it seems strange for a cancelling-out effect to be limited to just one timeline (or any amount of destruction that doesn’t extend to the entire 1-B structure).
- When Ben says his thing about the Universe being “everything there is”, Bellicus indirectly agrees with him by saying “was”. Since Celestialsapiens know the 26 dimensions exist by virtue of them being smarter than both Azmuth and presumably the Cosmic Mom, this indicates that it would extend to those 26 dimensions. Also while typing this I just remembered Ben learnt about the 26 dimensions existing so that’s another point to it affecting all of them.
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When the Annihilarrgh was destroying stuff, was a white void left behind?
Ghengiroo115
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Oh I see, yeah it doesn’t leave a white void. I suppose that’s kind of a massive issue, huh…
It does seem to reach Alien X’s pocket dimension, but idk where that dimension is located so it might mean something but it might not.
OMNIVERSAL-KING
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White void indicates pre big bang event
Even in that hypertimestream scene from last episode, the area outside of timestream was black
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It was black and rainbow.
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Oh I was inactive for a while, I thought you wouldn't look at the revision.
1- There is no information in the series that Annihilarg has changed. The Annihilarg that destroyed the universe and the Annihilarg that created the universe must be the same Annihilarg. Ben and Rook have a conversation about this: If the universe exists, he destroys it, if it doesn't exist, he creates it. So both Annihilarg and Annihilarg are the same, both from the perspective of creation and destruction, they have the same result.
2- As I mentioned in the revision, Benjamin says that everything was in the universe when it was destroyed. Serena and Bellicus, on the other hand, emphasize that everything was in the destroyed universe and say "It was in it". So Annihilarg destroyed everything we know in the universe
3- When Alien X created the universe, it created the Smoothie Logo and Benjamin's sweater differently. This was also the case in the other Alternate timelines. This can be shown by the fact that the Smoothie Logo changed while Ben was in the 23 universe and No Watch Ben's sweater was the same as the sweater in the changed universe.
Here are the facts I found on this subject.
1- There is no information in the series that Annihilarg has changed. The Annihilarg that destroyed the universe and the Annihilarg that created the universe must be the same Annihilarg. Ben and Rook have a conversation about this: If the universe exists, he destroys it, if it doesn't exist, he creates it. So both Annihilarg and Annihilarg are the same, both from the perspective of creation and destruction, they have the same result.
2- As I mentioned in the revision, Benjamin says that everything was in the universe when it was destroyed. Serena and Bellicus, on the other hand, emphasize that everything was in the destroyed universe and say "It was in it". So Annihilarg destroyed everything we know in the universe
3- When Alien X created the universe, it created the Smoothie Logo and Benjamin's sweater differently. This was also the case in the other Alternate timelines. This can be shown by the fact that the Smoothie Logo changed while Ben was in the 23 universe and No Watch Ben's sweater was the same as the sweater in the changed universe.
4-When Annihilarg was destroying the universe, the darkness of the background was the same as the hyper timeline. Team Benjamin and Maltraunt have the same darkness in the background from the Hyper Timeline to the White Nothingness. So you can infer from the background there that everything beyond the Hyper Timeline is destroyed. (Watch 11:15 - 11:25)
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Hellformer
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@DonkeySlayer06 Can this serve as a secondary evidence for Alien X messing up with other timelines as well?
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Oh, that's absolutely fine. Thank you for that.
Hellformer
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Bump
Hellformer
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Bump
Hellformer
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