Beerus vs Superman(Pre-Crisis)

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

as for vice shout - 2 characters have used it so far
second is gotenks he was trying as ssj but didnt have enough power (piccolo tried but he didnt hav enough power)

but he tried as ssj3 and had enough power

so in the end- this indicates the ssj3 boost gave him enough power to cross a threshold to make a portal in space for a while

Beerus being stronger than other characters does not mean he can use every technique those characters can. Until he uses a Vice Shout or is stated/implied to use a similar technique, it cannot be accounted for in vs battles.

ok first of all, how did gotenks get that technique then? he tried as an ssj but it didnt work, did ssj3 give him new hax?

also, is superman's combat speed fast enough for beerus?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

ok first of all, how did gotenks get that technique then? he tried as an ssj but it didnt work, did ssj3 give him new hax?

also, is superman's combat speed fast enough for beerus?

1. Probably, yes. Does Ultimate Gohan being superior to Super Buu mean he can do everything Buu can, even if he doesn't know how? Obviously not.

2. Presumably yes.

 

[Promestein]

I don't think it gave him new hax, I think Gotenks just didn't have the strength necessary, even though he knew how it worked. Since SSJ3 Gotenks > Super Buu > SSJ Gotenks.

 

[Zensum]

lol tbh true how did prime lose again^

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

lol tbh true how did prime lose again^

I don't know? I don't think I commented on that thread, much.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

ok first of all, how did gotenks get that technique then? he tried as an ssj but it didnt work, did ssj3 give him new hax?

also, is superman's combat speed fast enough for beerus?

1. Probably, yes. Does Ultimate Gohan being superior to Super Buu mean he can do everything Buu can, even if he doesn't know how? Obviously not.
2. Presumably yes.

the vice shout in particular was a purely ki power based attack, it showed no technique, also, as for the hax argument, the ssj3 form only provides a multiplier not a hax, so my view on this is it multiplied his ki enough to cross a threshhold for space tearing

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I don't think it gave him new hax, I think Gotenks just didn't have the strength necessary, even though he knew how it worked. Since SSJ3 Gotenks > Super Buu > SSJ Gotenks.

I personally think it was just a PIS moment to get him out of the RoSaT (only for Gotenks. Not for Buu). It might also not be, but whatever. Beerus doesn't know it's even a thing.


To Supe's speed:

And even if it wasn't too fast, he only needs travel to universe dump.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

the vice shout in particular was a purely ki power based attack, it showed no technique, also, as for the hax argument, the ssj3 form only provides a multiplier not a hax, so my view on this is it multiplied his ki enough to cross a threshhold for space tearing

Yes, a ki based power which only two characters used. Beerus isn't one of them, and thus can't be assumed to do so.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

I personally think it was just a PIS moment to get him out of the RoSaT (only for Gotenks. Not for Buu). It might also not be, but whatever. Beerus doesn't know it's even a thing.


To Supe's speed:

And even if it wasn't too fast, he only needs travel to universe dump.

but here is the thing, if he starts pulling beerus, beerus can strike in the oppositee direction and toss him off, after all, beerus has universal striking strength

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

Yes, a ki based power which only two characters used. Beerus isn't one of them, and thus can't be assumed to do so.

it was clearly shown that gotenks achieved it via power boost

heck piccolo was trying too, he is much smarter than gotenks, if he knew it was hax, he wudnt use it at all

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Beerus's nerves won't even be able to process that he's being touched, let alone react to it.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

it was clearly shown that gotenks achieved it via power boost

heck piccolo was trying too, he is much smarter than gotenks, if he knew it was hax, he wudnt use it at all

Yeah. Piccolo knew how to do it. That doesn't mean Beerus does, and there's no reason to assume he can.

 

[Zensum]

Beerus can only nullify ki right?

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

Yeah. Piccolo knew how to do it. That doesn't mean Beerus does, and there's no reason to assume he can.

so, piccolo has potential spacetime ripping hax, so does gotenks, but berus doesnt?

seriously?

is there anything suggesting that the spacetime hax is exclusive to these 2?

also this is a ki based this to begin with

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Beerus can only nullify ki right?

Universe equity, man. Ki = all other energies (chakra, magic, energy beams, etc.) and vice versa for the sake of fairness.

 

[Naitez]

lol tbh true how did prime lose again^

Beerus is stronger going by feats despite Prime's massive speed advantage.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

lol tbh true how did prime lose again^

Beerus is stronger going by feats despite Prime's massive speed advantage.

Feats are what we're arguing about now. Beerus has no feats to prove Vice Shouting. What's your opinion on this potential BFR, Natse?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

so, piccolo has potential spacetime ripping hax, so does gotenks, but berus doesnt?

seriously?

is there anything suggesting that the spacetime hax is exclusive to these 2?

also this is a ki based this to begin with

That's the same logic as saying "oh, so Buu can use the chocolate beam but Beerus can't?".

It doesn't matter how much stronger he is.

If he hasn't shown to know how to use it, or been implied to know how to use it, then we're not going to assume he can use it.

 

[Naitez]

Beerus has never demonstrated the vice shout and neither has Whis, not that he needs to, so I'm gonna assume he doesn't know the technique. As for the BFR, I never thought of that but what dimension or universe will Superman bring Beerus to?

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

so, piccolo has potential spacetime ripping hax, so does gotenks, but berus doesnt?

seriously?

is there anything suggesting that the spacetime hax is exclusive to these 2?

also this is a ki based this to begin with

That's not how it works. If there was any statement that every Ki user can rip through spacetime, then Beerus would have this ability. Only Buu and Gotenks have used it successfully. Piccolo was implied. Not the same for Beerus. He might not even know about this ability, let alone using it in a fight.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

That's the same logic as saying "oh, so Buu can use the chocolate beam but Beerus can't?".

It doesn't matter how much stronger he is.

If he hasn't shown to know how to use it, or been implied to know how to use it, then we're not going to assume he can use it.

no, no the chocolate beam is a legit hax

while in this case, anyone who tried this with high ki worked it out fine, there wasnt a special technique or hax- if there was then piccolo wudnt even try it

and if u think piccoo had the potential, then why not add potential for spacetime affectio on piccolo's powers and abilitties?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Beerus has never demonstrated the vice shout and neither has Whis, not that he needs to, so I'm gonna assume he doesn't know the technique. As for the BFR, I never thought of that but what dimension or universe will Superman bring Beerus to?

Any viable dimensional plane, any viable universe, any viable timeline. And then seal it off within an absurdly quick time.

 

[Naitez]

Can Superman really seal off individual universes for good?

 

[Promestein]

We can't assume that anyone stronger than Buu can arbitrarily pull off a Vice Shout just because they're more powerful if they haven't shown it.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

no, no the chocolate beam is a legit hax

while in this case, anyone who tried this with high ki worked it out fine, there wasnt a special technique or hax- if there was then piccolo wudnt even try it

and if u think piccoo had the potential, then why not add potential for spacetime affectio on piccolo's powers and abilitties?

The Chocolate Beam barely even qualifies as legit hax due to the Vegito scenario. He resisted it just by having high enough ki.

Once again, Beerus doesn't know how to use Vice Shout. If he does, then we'll eventually learn so and it can be added to his moveset. But because he hasn't been hinted to know how to due this, it's ridiculous to assume he does, especially when it drastically affects the outcome of a vs battle.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

you have to keep in mind tho that it was not demonstrated a sa hax technique itself

a power boost was enough to do it

soooo... where to go from there????? which explaination to pick???

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Can Superman really seal off individual universes for good?

Yep. According to his list of feats. And seeing how it's not a relevant universe, I'm pretty sure it's for good. It's outside of the multiverse.

 

[AllanSaiyan]

Beerus can only nullify ki right?

No he can nullify all energy attacks.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Well to be fair it is stated that the vice shout is based on the power of the fighter, not a special hax, Vegito even tells Buuhan to turn that power onto him instead of the Universe in kai, and we see both buu and Gotenks use it showing it isn't linked to only one person, both of which were surprised at it when it was first used by Buu, so they didn't know how to do anything special. Even daizenshuu/chozenshuu states that only those with high battle power can use vice shout. So anybody above Super Buu logically can, as there is no prior knowledge for Buu or gotenks, and it is pure power based, just like we assume any ki user can use ki offensively and defensively and manipulate their ki blasts even if they don't show both.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Oh and I vote for Beerus to btw due to the superior durability and power. Superman can't really hurt him and universal shockwaves will knock superman out easily, and he isn't escaping them even if he can escape Beerus as they travel across the universe and even into other dimensions like kai realm and other world.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

I will repost the Juggernaut scan and go to sleep

 

[Elvis_Adika]

I love the fact that this thread is about Beerus figting Pre-Crisis Superman.

Instead, the thread 70% filled with debates about SSJ3 Gotenks dimension shouting being a hax or not and only a few comments about who will win.

 

[Mister_Death]

Beerus most likely wins handily

 

[Aimenaltair]

Are you guys serious here, Vice shout is not a special technique it's pure power, Piccolo tried it but failed because he's not powerful enough to do it then SSJ3 Gotenks tried it with the help of piccolo and it worked, now if it's a special technique, then Only Buu should know it, But it's false since we've seen Piccolo try and ssj Gotenks try too but it didn't work, if you're suggesting that ssj3 gives hax then I am surry but that beyond stupid.

as for the match, Beerus wins with high difficulty, assuming that his high limits are just universe busting then he needs to put all his energy in one attack that have a Universal AOF to be able to put down supes.

Edit: Since this is an all out match then Beerus wins.

 

[DeezNuts1102]

LEL

I'm not implying that both of them can do vice shout but hell they can freaking scream really loud lol. As far as i concern, Vice shout isn't a special technique, it solely relies on raw power and Ki.

SO i do think they can do vice shout. lel



such scream, wow


dat scream tho

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

snip

Once again, a technique EXISTING does not automatically mean a character more powerful than the user can do the same thing if they have yet to even show the knowledge that it exists. If people are just going to argue "lol vice shout because he's stronger than Gotenks", please look at the Juggernaut scan that has been posted above. Fiction is not always the most consistent, and Beerus being stronger than Gotenks does not automatically mean he knows Vice Shout, just as Gladiator being stronger than Juggernaut or Hulk doesn't automatically mean he can punch through the barrier between universes. If Beerus shows the ability to do this, then it will by all means be considered as part of his moveset. But since he HASN'T, we're not going to do so.

End of story.

 

[Alexcar3000]

Well, this is getting kinda off topic, is this gonna be added to Beerus' wins or is this inconclusive?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Well, this is getting kinda off topic, is this gonna be added to Beerus' wins or is this inconclusive?

Unless people want to go over how Beerus is going to even tag Superman, I don't feel comfortable adding this to his wins.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Screw it. Beerus handily takes this as Pre-Crisis Supes is only Multi-Galaxy at his peak. Not sure which speed feat is greater for either two though. Supes has his rating for being able to cross the universe in seconds. Beerus is apparently at around 3/4th's that of Whis who on his page can cross at least 5 galaxies in 35 minutes (it might be considered outdated by now, idk. *shrugs*). Maybe Supes has the speed advantage here, perhaps?

For abilties? Meh.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Well, this is getting kinda off topic, is this gonna be added to Beerus' wins or is this inconclusive?

I think there is the most people voting for Beerus due to superior power and durability, as well as the universal shockwave being something superman won't see coming and won't likely escape, even if he could run from Beerus himself. Also most of the others are inconclusive as opposed to saying outright superman will win, so I think Beerus takes this.