Beerus vs Superboy-Prime (Countdown)

[Xantospoc]

Why was this added to Beerus' loss when we see we are still discussing the fight? I think Beerus would win with high difficulty. Prime's speed would be a massive issue, but Beerus' hax and superior raw power, added to his healing factor (yes, Beerus can heal, he got once a scratch from Goku which regenerated as soon as it appeared) should defeat Prime. Prime's idiocy and brutality will lead to his downfall

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

^A6colute was the one that added the results. For me, i actually thought Beerus would have won this fight.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Maybe he didn't read the thread? because I don't think theres a conclusive answer here.

 

[Naitez]

Nobody responded in two days and I thought CrossverseCrisis said yes to Prime. Either way, this looks inconclusive. Universe level beings that are similar to each other in a matchup looks hard to debate about.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Nah, i didn't agree to anything here. Just commented. I do really feel a bit leaning towards Beerus though, but i can see this as being inconclusive due to their feats....give or take.

 

[Naitez]

Wanna change this battle to Inconclusive under Beerus's profile?

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Sure.

 

[Zensum]

Yeah inconclusive might be good I could argue for prime further but the universal and dimmensonal feats are hard too quantify/qualify

 

[Dragon_Emperor_lV]

I'm confused....when has Prime been able to fight against people that can destroy universes just from the shockwaves of their punches whIle holding back?

 

[Shock97]

I'm still personally against using Beerus in high stakes matches like this that he arguable can easily handle if we weren't waiting on more solo feats for him. That being said I still back Beerus due to possessing similar durability, much greater DC, and more versatility (cloning).

 

[SaberLily015]

And remember it wasn't just the universe but other dimensions like otherworld were threatened by the punches and high condensed energy blast.

 

[Naitez]

I'm just gonna say that the shockwave feels more like a Multi-Galaxy level attack with weird hax properties. Had Beerus really tried using his Universal power, Goku's fists would have been destroyed in that fight, but they weren't.

 

[Dragon_Emperor_lV]

I'm just gonna say that the shockwave feels more like a Multi-Galaxy level attack with weird hax properties. Had Beerus really tried using his Universal power, Goku's fists would have been destroyed in that fight, but they weren't.

Goku was holding back as well. He only got serious after Beerus nullified the hyper dense ki ball. Also something else I would like to note:

Remember when Goku canceled the shockwave on the third collision and created a white line? After that they start fighting and literally every punch that connects created a white break line. Further proof that Beerus's punches are universal on a casual level. This might apply for Goku as well since he specifically stated he had to match it at the exact speed and power.

 

[Naitez]

And Beerus still wasn't trying hard enough when Goku gave it his all.

But Beerus is still just regular Universe level no matter how casual he is, unless he proves that he has an infinite amount of three dimensional power or has four dimensional power. This is what makes the match inconclusive as even though Prime has a massive speed advantage, it's hard to quantify both of their powers.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

What Natse says is true. Even if Beerus went all out or no matter how casual he is, he;s just going to be 3-A. High 3-A is as what he said: Beerus would need to have an infinite amount of 3-D power or have 4-D power to even be considered of that tier. Like hell Whis and Vados are stronger than Beerus (For Whis) and Champa (For Vados) and yet we have them at 3-A still.

 

[Shock97]

What Natse says is true. Even if Beerus went all out or no matter how casual he is, he;s just going to be 3-A. High 3-A is as what he said: Beerus would need to have an infinite amount of 3-D power or have 4-D power to even be considered of that tier. Like hell Whis and Vados are stronger than Beerus (For Whis) and Champa (For Vados) and yet we have them at 3-A still.

"Beerus would need to have an infinite amount of 3-D power or have 4-D power to even be considered of that tier."

What would that even look like? What would he have to do? It seems like something that comes from statements, how would an author show that off visually?

 

[SSJRyu1]

There is also a pretty huge difference between their feats.

A bloodlusted Prime caused damage to Monarchs armor and the energy leaking caused the Universe to explode which he just happened to survive Monarch is also to my knowledge not MFTL+ and was tagging Prime implying even when bloodlusted he doesn't tend to just blitz people.

Beerus took that amount of energy and reduced it to nothing without going all out (remember he was lying about going 100%) hell even Goku negated a stronger universe destroying attack in base form (Well Saiyan Beyond God form)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bffwjKTcsc

I agree, Superboys speed is being grossly exagerated. Also the elder kai and supreme kai multiple times state that the destruction caused by Beerus and Goku was going to kill them to, and when they say "Universe" they often refer to macrocosm. Also we see the shockwaves reaching the other world with king kai, and kaioshin realm, and it is only logical they would be destroyed since the further away the stronger they are. We even see in the Kamehameha energy clash with beerus that an explosion is seen in the kaioshin realm as they clash. So realistically it is like Goku and Beerus were going to destroy the entire macrocosm, not just the living universe portion of "universe" 7. So Beerus while maybe 3A is on a higher level than just the observable universe. And he was holding back.

 

[Naitez]

We can't rate Beerus at High Universe level for reasons we already stated and we can't rate him at Universe Level+ because he doesn't have sufficient power to destroy the entire space-time of a single universe. Plus, there's Whis.

 

[SSJRyu1]

@Zensum The issue is he is indeed still slower than Bart. Also jay is not the fastest of the speedsters, id be willing to say superboy might be as fast as the regular flashes, but not Bart with full speed force by any means as Bart was shown to be faster, and he blitz prime multiple times.

The best speed I have seen for an unamped flash is wally 13 trillion times ftl bomb feat, but even then I am hesitant to just give prime his best feat because by that logic we should give everybody who gives flash a hard time his speed, and everybody who gives superman a hard time his strength and so on. Take note that Prime after all was tagged many times by non speedsters and had trouble with guys like other supermen and manhunter and so on.

So at best id say he might be 13 trillion times ftl in combat if we scale wally's speed feat, but saying he's nigh infinite in speed or anything like that is a gross exaggeration and contradicts all his showings.

As for power, yes he can survive a universe destroying attack, and can open up monarch like a can opener, id argue it is only proof of 3B+ but I can see where people would think 3A. Beerus and Goku had the power to destroy the entire macrocosm of the DBZ verse, both in strikes and energy attacks, and Beerus nullifies it all completely, not even at full power.

To put this in perspective the other world is just as big as the living universe and kaioshin realm is about 1/5 the size of the universe and orbits the sphere a ways away from it. So destroying the whole universe 7 is actually like destroying more than 2 universes, and Beerus can do this without using full power, so actually I'd say his power/durability is of a higher showing, easily more than double primes showing, which btw knocked prime out.

Also worth noting is Beerus has vastly superior hand to hand skills, and more diversity in energy manipulation by far.

 

[SSJRyu1]

We can't rate Beerus at High Universe level for reasons we already stated and we can't rate him at Universe Level+ because he doesn't have sufficient power to destroy the entire space-time of a single universe. Plus, there's Whis.

Well I'm not saying make his tier higher, im just saying his feat is more impressive is all, and he was holding back, and Prime got knocked out on his feat, so Beerus is technically significantly stronger and more durable by feats, just not infinitely so.

 

[Aparajita]

Hold up, Whis is 1/13th the speed of best Wally, and that's without the Speed Force. With the Speed Force, he was blitzing Prime, but Prime was able to percieve the fight.

At best, Prime should be many times faster than base Wally.

Which means Whis should be around 1/13th the Speed of Prime, putting Beerus at 3/4th the speed of that.

Literally, how is Beerus even percieving the fight?

 

[Naitez]

Just gonna wait until Beerus faces an attack that does destroy an entire universe. You can't get higher than that without going into definitely infinite 3-D power.

 

[Dragon_Emperor_lV]

Just gonna wait until Beerus faces an attack that does destroy an entire universe. You can't get higher than that without going into definitely infinite 3-D power.

He did....and he nullifies it casually. When was Prime ever a casual universe buster? He got knocked out by a universal chain reaction. It wasn't even instant.

 

[Zensum]

@Zensum
The issue is he is indeed still slower than Bart. Also jay is not the fastest of the speedsters, id be willing to say superboy might be as fast as the regular flashes, but not Bart with full speed force by any means as Bart was shown to be faster, and he blitz prime multiple times.

The best speed I have seen for an unamped flash is wally 13 trillion times ftl bomb feat, but even then I am hesitant to just give prime his best feat because by that logic we should give everybody who gives flash a hard time his speed, and everybody who gives superman a hard time his strength and so on. Take note that Prime after all was tagged many times by non speedsters and had trouble with guys like other supermen and manhunter and so on.

So at best id say he might be 13 trillion times ftl in combat if we scale wally's speed feat, but saying he's nigh infinite in speed or anything like that is a gross exaggeration and contradicts all his showings.

As for power, yes he can survive a universe destroying attack, and can open up monarch like a can opener, id argue it is only proof of 3B+ but I can see where people would think 3A. Beerus and Goku had the power to destroy the entire macrocosm of the DBZ verse, both in strikes and energy attacks, and Beerus nullifies it all completely, not even at full power.

To put this in perspective the other world is just as big as the living universe and kaioshin realm is about 1/5 the size of the universe and orbits the sphere a ways away from it. So destroying the whole universe 7 is actually like destroying more than 2 universes, and Beerus can do this without using full power, so actually I'd say his power/durability is of a higher showing, easily more than double primes showing, which btw knocked prime out.

Also worth noting is Beerus has vastly superior hand to hand skills, and more diversity in energy manipulation by far.

He slower than Bart with 100% speed force yes but it was made to seem not by much. True Wally does admit SB is faster than him too and Wally is arguable the fastest flash due to the fact he escaped the speed force like SB has also done. Im not saying he has nigh omnipresent speed but he is fast enough for it too matter in this fight. 13 trillion time ftl ? idk how to quanifty it so ill go with that.

Besides his monarch feats he was also seen tourchering a weakned Mxy who is at 2A. His ION did wonders for his durability making him pretty much close immune to reality warping by the time he fought monarch most of this amp was leaving him. He surived the big bang attack pretty much as his last bit of ION power left him which means he basically surived it pre countdown. This is why he warrents the 3A. Even pre countdown he tanked an attack from COIE Antimonitor which is why I dont see beerus attacks being that effetcive.

BTW I think its important to note with his amp he was only tagged by monarch.

Btw can you link me the video/manga about beerus DC the video linked aboved didnt mention his universal level capablities.

 

[SSJRyu1]

@Zensum Still, 13 trillion times is a far cry from what a lot of people are claiming, it certainly is not blitz level like they are saying.

Mxy was weakened though, also huge PIS, also he clearly was still using guardian powers against Monarch and was knocked out against the universal level attack, even though a lot of the energy went off into space and not directly onto him, so he might barely warrant 3A, but it is his limit and he is knocked out by it, but Beerus is casually 3A, he was going to destroy not just the universe, but other world to, which is just as big and even the surrounding kaioshin realm outside the large sphere shape. And he just casually nullifies it all, and he wasn't even at full power. So feat wise Beerus is likely significantly stronger and more durable.

Sure, i'll link the important episodes for the feats, id suggest watching them for full context.

http://watchdbzsuper.com/dragon-ball-super-episode-12-subbed/

http://watchdbzsuper.com/dragon-ball-super-episode-13-subbed/

 

[Zensum]

@SSJRyu1 It could be PIS but it happened. But MXY did say he would be able to rofl beat him without the ION amp. I just think that durbaility boost made him pretty much immune. Before he was able to take an antimonter blast head on. Reguarding his status Monarch tells Prime he's running on the last bit of guardian energy. If he didnt have the boost from the start he woud have gotten rofl stomped. By the time the universe explosion happened he was essentialy running on fumes which is why I considerd it not really a prime feat.

True energy wise beerus has more showings but strength and speeed wise I'd go for SB. SB has his dimmensonal recton punches ability where he was rewriting people historys just by hitting and altering the timeline. Which beerus would have no counter for also the fact when he was fully amped he puncheded through the 5th dimmension. If we are talking full amped from the start taking a univese level attack shouldnt be too much trouble as his stats go down as the energy leaves him

Ill check out the episodes

Edit: kk i saw

Epi 12 , Unversal shockwaves : I doubt that would hurt SB due to close proximity. Also E Kai made it seem it would be the gradual effects of the shockwaves as they got further and further away from them. Rather than an instaneous explosion like monarch. He also made it seem like Goku and Beerus would be killed by thier own ki which I assume not

Epi 13 High Dense Ki : This attack was stated to end of earth several stars and planets around it. Then he contradicts his eairlier statement a few seconds later saying it was capable of destroying the universe which is a huge jump so idk about this one. And later he says he wasnt using 100% so idk how to quantify that

Due to the time involved with these attacks SB could probably outrun the blast anyways

 

[Canis_Latrans2]

@Zensum Still, 13 trillion times is a far cry from what a lot of people are claiming, it certainly is not blitz level like they are saying.
Mxy was weakened though, also huge PIS, also he clearly was still using guardian powers against Monarch and was knocked out against the universal level attack, even though a lot of the energy went off into space and not directly onto him, so he might barely warrant 3A, but it is his limit and he is knocked out by it, but Beerus is casually 3A, he was going to destroy not just the universe, but other world to, which is just as big and even the surrounding kaioshin realm outside the large sphere shape. And he just casually nullifies it all, and he wasn't even at full power. So feat wise Beerus is likely significantly stronger and more durable.

Sure, i'll link the important episodes for the feats, id suggest watching them for full context.

http://watchdbzsuper.com/dragon-ball-super-episode-12-subbed/

http://watchdbzsuper.com/dragon-ball-super-episode-13-subbed/

BRUH! THE CHAMPA AND VADOS FEAT WSA CALD AT A BARE MINIMIUN OF 64 Quadrillon C http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=33741

 

[SSJRyu1]

@Canis Latrans2 I agree 100%, they are easily in the high quadrillions based on that feat. Certainly 13 trillion will not be enough to stop him in speed.

 

[SSJRyu1]

@SSJRyu1 It could be PIS but it happened. But MXY did say he would be able to rofl beat him without the ION amp. I just think that durbaility boost made him pretty much immune. Before he was able to take an antimonter blast head on. Reguarding his status Monarch tells Prime he's running on the last bit of guardian energy. If he didnt have the boost from the start he woud have gotten rofl stomped. By the time the universe explosion happened he was essentialy running on fumes which is why I considerd it not really a prime feat.

True energy wise beerus has more showings but strength and speeed wise I'd go for SB. SB has his dimmensonal recton punches ability where he was rewriting people historys just by hitting and altering the timeline. Which beerus would have no counter for also the fact when he was fully amped he puncheded through the 5th dimmension. If we are talking full amped from the start taking a univese level attack shouldnt be too much trouble as his stats go down as the energy leaves him

Ill check out the episodes

Edit: kk i saw

Epi 12 , Unversal shockwaves : I doubt that would hurt SB due to close proximity. Also E Kai made it seem it would be the gradual effects of the shockwaves as they got further and further away from them. Rather than an instaneous explosion like monarch. He also made it seem like Goku and Beerus would be killed by thier own ki which I assume not

Epi 13 High Dense Ki : This attack was stated to end of earth several stars and planets around it. Then he contradicts his eairlier statement a few seconds later saying it was capable of destroying the universe which is a huge jump so idk about this one. And later he says he wasnt using 100% so idk how to quantify that

Due to the time involved with these attacks SB could probably outrun the blast anyways

Issue is Primes best showing is that universal feat and even if he was almost out of his amp he is still at his peak form when he is knocked out, so by feats a universal attack will knock out his amped form.

Mxy, it is PIS, a multiversal reality warper would stomp him easily normally, if Mxy was at full power and the PIS card didn't get played, I think almost everybody agrees on that one.

Not really, SBP is barely able to survive a universal attack, and has to be blood lusted and enraged to tear open monarch, so he is just universal barely, Beerus casually can unleash universal attacks and beyond, as he was going to destroy the entire macrocosm, and casually nullified it all, without even using full power. So Beerus can do feats above Primes casually while Primes knocked him out. So I think Beerus actually has better showings.

As for speed, it's a tough call, if we use the manga feat for vados and champa then by scaling Beerus is faster, since that feat is high quadrillions at least, while Prime being fast as wally is over 13 trillion, but tbh max speed is hard to pinpoint.

 

[Zensum]

Issue is Primes best showing is that universal feat and even if he was almost out of his amp he is still at his peak form when he is knocked out, so by feats a universal attack will knock out his amped form.
Mxy, it is PIS, a multiversal reality warper would stomp him easily normally, if Mxy was at full power and the PIS card didn't get played, I think almost everybody agrees on that one.

Not really, SBP is barely able to survive a universal attack, and has to be blood lusted and enraged to tear open monarch, so he is just universal barely, Beerus casually can unleash universal attacks and beyond, as he was going to destroy the entire macrocosm, and casually nullified it all, without even using full power. So Beerus can do feats above Primes casually while Primes knocked him out. So I think Beerus actually has better showings.

As for speed, it's a tough call, if we use the manga feat for vados and champa then by scaling Beerus is faster, since that feat is high quadrillions at least, while Prime being fast as wally is over 13 trillion, but tbh max speed is hard to pinpoint.

I was just using the Mxy feat to attest to how impervious he was at first. When he first got the amp he was standing on the source wall which is a huge feat to when it was running out in the monarch fight and he surived the big bang tier attack without warning ko'ed ofc. I would argue that Antimontiers blast could be considered another universal attack he was hit with it head on. However AM was starting to weaken we dunno how much ( kinda similair to the Mxy situation ).

Speed wise idk lmao I thought he was pretty impressive I havent caught up on DBZ just yet

 

[SSJRyu1]

@Zensum The main reason I think beerus is probably stronge ris because primes universal feat knocked him out and eh was amped with guardian energy still, his body had not reverted yet, but Beerus feat stretched not just across the living universe bu the entire macrocausm, so was a larger scale attack, and beerus was able to do that without even using full power, so a larger scale feat with less than full power, vs a somewhat smaller scale one that took him to his limit, that would be my reason to think Beerus is more powerful and durable.

Speed wise, I think the vados/champa feat technically gives Beerus the edge by scaling when crunching the numbers, but I'd say wait until it happens in the anime to before using it, until then id leave the speed issue undecided.

Although skill wise and versatility wise beerus has it to imo.

 

[Zensum]

True I see what your saying. I would say inconclusive tho cause idk how Beerus would respond to SB dimmensional abilties.

 

[Dragon_Emperor_lV]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Herms98/status/691054352908161025

I think Beerus wins this now.

 

[Naitez]

Beerus + Champa = Two Universes Destroyed

Now divide that by two and you only have one universe destroyed. All this does is confirm Beerus's Universe level power.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Beerus + Champa = Two Universes Destroyed

Now divide that by two and you only have one universe destroyed. All this does is confirm Beerus's Universe level power.

depends on the context really. If they destroy them completely it could be a 2C feat as opposed to 3A, so I wanna see context of if its just matter or the universes themselves. Also worth noting in DBZ a universe in the sense of universe 7 or 6 is actually a macrocosm.

 

[Dragon_Emperor_lV]

Beerus + Champa = Two Universes Destroyed
Now divide that by two and you only have one universe destroyed. All this does is confirm Beerus's Universe level power.

That alone puts him over Prime. Has Prime ever been close to destroying two universes in his battles? This was still a casual feat for Beerus btw.

 

[Naitez]

Prime never tried destroying the universe. He did threaten to tear the multiverse apart to look for his perfect home but that was just a statement.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

I believe Beerus would be above Prime within 2 arcs by feats. He's much stronger than SSG Goku after all, and hasn't been serious even once in the anime and manga

 

[Zensum]

Prime never tried destroying the universe. He did threaten to tear the multiverse apart to look for his perfect home but that was just a statement.

True he also tanked COIE Antimonitor blast

 

[SSJRyu1]

Beerus is macrocosm level without full power (bigger than 2 universes), Prime was knocked out cold by a universal blast, Beerus is logically stronger.