Beerus vs Sans

[Dekoshu]

This thread is not ending, due to the versatile and different abilities both Beerus and Sans have.

 

[Riolu-San]

Just realized, Karmic Retrobution is based off of how many people the target killed, so Sans literally has to hit Beerus once, and Beerus will be withering away to nothing

 

[Cohobast]

It's possible that Flowey is being more poetic than strictly factual in his speach to Chara since in the same line he talks about reading and burning every book, not impossible but maybe unlikely. i still think it's possible that "never" refers to all timelines.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

It's possible that Flowey is being more poetic than strictly factual in his speach to Chara since in the same line he talks about reading and burning every book, not impossible but maybe unlikely. i still think it's possible that "never" refers to all timelines.

I would not doubt he actually burned every book, along with everything else, to the ground more than once. Also, even with being poetic, considering his mantra, it's unlikely "killed everyone" is him speaking anything but truthfully, especially since "killed everyone...except for Asgore" would be kinda important.

 

[Cohobast]

He does seem the type of person to hold a literal book burning so perhaps that wasn't the best example. I still think his comment on sans forcing him to reset more than a few times casts a bit of doubt on the "killed everyone" part of things.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Remember how Chara just reset over and over again until finally killing Sans?

I don't doubt Flowey would do the same thing. He definitely seems like the kind of guy to want revenge for that sorta thing, even if it accomplishes nothing.

 

[Cohobast]

I have to say there is at least a small possibility that Flowey got around Sans' ridiculously good perceptions in at least one timeline and not knowing just how long Flowey played around with his resets it's hard to rule it out entirely.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Not to be rude or anything, but since the results were added to the profiles already and no one is offering anything new to the debate as well as this thread being active for 4 MONTHS, I think it's safe to close it already.

 

[GeneralJuhziz]

Ohhh boy.
I don't want to spoil anything, so all I'm gonna say is you'll probably get a bit of revenge in a certain "other" route, but there'll be two really tough bosses comin' up. Good luck.

Just finished the genocide route - jesus christ Sans was hard. I genuinely thought he was cheating me xD

Now I can see why Sans is so damn powerful - he can hax the sh*t out of soul manipulation and time warping.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Not to be rude or anything, but since the results were added to the profiles already and no one is offering anything new to the debate as well as this thread being active for 4 MONTHS, I think it's safe to close it already.

I do. Beerus can void out energy attacks, so the Gaster Blasters would not work.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

And with Beerus acting like he normally does, he would blow up the planet at Sans' bad puns.

 

[Hyper_Anon]

And with Beerus acting like he normally does, he would blow up the planet at Sans' bad puns.

Your Puns are so bad, I think blowing up the Planet is generous, I'll blow up the solar system.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

And with Beerus acting like he normally does, he would blow up the planet at Sans' bad puns.

Your Puns are so bad, I think blowing up the Planet is generous, I'll blow up the solar system.

Pretty much.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

I do. Beerus can void out energy attacks, so the Gaster Blasters would not work.

Maybe, but you have to remember Sans' attacks are made to damage the soul and not to mention his attacks are magic in nature.

 

[XXBeerusTheDestroyerXx]

I do. Beerus can void out energy attacks, so the Gaster Blasters would not work.

Maybe, but you have to remember Sans' attacks are made to damage the soul and not to mention his attacks are magic in nature.

But at the same time that doesn't really effect his ability to dodge them. Also.. with all that EXP, his HP must be off the charts.

 

[LoudCloud]

Beerus as he's far faster (which would make karmic retribution a lot weaker as it can be dependent on how long the opponent touches Sans' attacks).

Don't know how Sans' hax would play out though. Anyone know how his time manipulation works?

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

KR isn't based on how long it touches you, its a dot that gets refreshed each time you're touched.

 

[LoudCloud]

KR isn't based on how long it touches you, its a dot that gets refreshed each time you're touched.

The longer you remain touching Sans' attacks, the more damage it ends up doing. https://youtu.be/jcDo9zjfpIA?t=3m20s

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

The longer you remain touching Sans' attacks, the more damage it ends up doing. https://youtu.be/jcDo9zjfpIA?t=3m20s

The problem is KR does more damage to you the more you've killed. Considering Beerus' occupation, that's quite a lot. Each attack only does one damage, KR does the rest.

Not to mention the instant Beerus touches any of Sans' attacks he will be in for A LOT of pain. He can't shrug off an attack like this due to having no experience or resistance to Soul hax of Sans' level as of yet.

 

[LoudCloud]

I'm sure Karmic Retribution is a combination of:

1. Doing more damage based on how many people you've killed.

2. How long you touch the attack for (the longer you touch, the more damage).

3. Doing damage over time once touched (similar to poison).

I still think Beerus stomps due to higher AP and speed which should kill Sans before he even knows it.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Problem is, it's not Beerus' character to blitz, he plays around with his opponents and will likely underestimate Sans.

You just said that KR does more damage the more you've killed right?

It takes a couple of seconds for KR to kill a multiversal being whose kill count was in the double-triple digits.

Against a Universe being with no soul hax resistance and has killed at least several billion? Beerus would not survive that. He'd be dead the moment he touches it.

Though, I see why you picked Beerus, your reasoning makes sense.

 

[LoudCloud]

Problem is, it's not Beerus' character to blitz, he plays around with his opponents and will likely underestimate Sans.
You just said that KR does more damage the more you've killed right?

It takes a couple of seconds for KR to kill a multiversal being whose kill count was in the double-triple digits.

Against a Universe being with no soul hax resistance and has killed at least several billion? Beerus would not survive that. He'd be dead the moment he touches it.

Though, I see why you picked Beerus, your reasoning makes sense.

What multi-verse being? And how do you know it's a couple of seconds?

And by "plays around with his opponents" you mean this ?

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

What multi-verse being? And how do you know it's a couple of seconds?

And by "plays around with his opponents" you mean this ?

Chara is who I was referring to, seriously that's the only opponent Sans fights in the Genocide Route and the only battle we get to see his abilities. It's literally written in Sans ' profile. If you seen the fight (which I don't think you have if you don't know this), if you stay anywhere near Sans attacks, it kills you in a few seconds, especially if you get near the bones.

Yes, that is literally the definition of playing around. He could have oneshot SSJ3 Goku, but decided to play with him. Did you see how casual he was?

 

[LoudCloud]

What multi-verse being? And how do you know it's a couple of seconds?

And by "plays around with his opponents" you mean this ?

Chara is who I was referring to, seriously that's the only opponent Sans fights in the Genocide Route and the only battle we get to see his abilities. If you seen the fight (which I don't think you have if you don't know this), if you stay anywhere near Sans attacks, it kills you in a few seconds, especially if get near the bones.
Yes, that is literally the definition of playing around. He could have oneshot SSJ3 Goku, but decided to play with him. Did you see how casual he was?

Sans fought Frisk possesed by Chara. Chara only manifested his/her full power after Frisk defeats Sans.

And if Beerus is MFTL+ and can stomp a FTL+ being that easily when "underestimating them", then I'm sure he can underestimate a MHS character just fine.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Sans fought Frisk possesed by Chara. Chara only manifested his/her full power after Frisk defeats Sans.

And if Beerus is MFTL+ and can stomp a FTL+ being that easily when "underestimating them", then I'm sure he can underestimate a MHS character just fine.

At that point, Chara was near at full power. They were LV 19 when they fought Sans and became LV 20 afterwards. There shouldn't be a huge gap in power between the LVs.

Yes, but the problem is if he so much as touches or gets grazed by one attack, he won't be able to recover due to the mass pain it will inflict upon him. That's a possiblilty considering he also blocks or tanks attacks when fighting. Not to mention Sans has Teleportation, Telekinesis, Soul Manipulation, Gravity Manipulation. He has hax that Beerus would not expect.

 

[LoudCloud]

Sans fought Frisk possesed by Chara. Chara only manifested his/her full power after Frisk defeats Sans.

And if Beerus is MFTL+ and can stomp a FTL+ being that easily when "underestimating them", then I'm sure he can underestimate a MHS character just fine.

At that point, Chara was near at full power. They were LV 19 when they fought Sans and became LV 20 afterwards. There shouldn't be a huge gap in power between the LVs.
Yes, but the problem is if he so much as touches or gets grazed by one attack, he won't be able to recover due to the mass pain it will inflict upon him. That's a possiblilty considering he also blocks or tanks attacks when fighting.

There's no way too determine the difference in power between LV 19 and 20 Chara. By that logic LV 15 should have also been close but I don't see Chara showcasing any of that level of power.

You know what else causes pain? A Universe-busting attack to a lesser-than-town-level durabilty being.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

You're confusing Attack Potentcy with Destructive Capacity.

DC refers to how much damage you can do to the surroundings.

AP refers to how much damage you can do to a character that has a certain level of Durability.

Doesn't showcase that type of power? Um, Undyne the Undying? Both LV 20 Chara and Undyne the Undying have 99/99 in their stats. Chara was only level 12 or so when they fought UtU.

 

[LoudCloud]

You're confusing Attack Potentcy with Destructive Capacity.
DC refers to how much damage you can do to the surroundings.

AP refers to how much damage you can do to a character that has a certain level of Durability.

Doesn't showcase that type of power? Um, Undyne the Undying? Both LV 20 Chara and Undyne the Undying have 99/99 in their stats. Chara was only level 12 or so when they fought UtU.

When did Chara have 99/99 stats?

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

When did Chara have 99/99 stats?

The Real Knife and The Locket give them 99 ATK and 99 DEF.

 

[LoudCloud]

When did Chara have 99/99 stats?

The Real Knife and The Locket give them 99 ATK and 99 DEF.

Alright. So even by going by that logic, Beerus would still win.

It didn't take Sans "a couple of seconds" to defeat a multiversal being. Implying we can use gameplay mechanics here (which you also are), it would take a few attacks to kill Frisk (Chara). By the first hit, Beerus would have realised he shouldn't mess around so much and be more careful (or just outright end Sans). There's really no proof KR can cause enough pain to render someone helpless to the next hits. Especially not a MFTL+ being whose perception of Sans' attacks would be ridiculously slow.

 

[XXBeerusTheDestroyerXx]

Shouldn't Beerus speed give him the win here? If not, destructive range and capability should give it to him. He should be FAR more than capable dodging anything Sans can throw at him, and can you even say that Sans can sufficiently even react to Beerus?

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Alright. So even by going by that logic, Beerus would still win.

It didn't take Sans "a couple of seconds" to defeat a multiversal being. Implying we can use gameplay mechanics here (which you also are), it would take a few attacks to kill Frisk (Chara). By the first hit, Beerus would have realised he shouldn't mess around so much and be more careful (or just outright end Sans). There's really no proof KR can cause enough pain to render someone helpless to the next hits. Especially not a MFTL+ being whose perception of Sans' attacks would be ridiculously slow.

Multiverse level is literally infinitely above Universe level.

The point here is Beerus has NO experience fighting someone like Sans. Especially with his hax. He never experienced Soul hax like Sans' before, the sensation he'll feel will be something entirely new to him. Then there's Teleportation, Gravity Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, Sans has a lot of hax to catch him off guard.

KR the more you've killed = the more damage it will do to your soul. So again, unless Beerus has resistance to Soul hax that hurts Mulitverse level beings, he should not just shrug off one of Sans' attacks. He will be in a lot of pain.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Shouldn't Beerus speed give him the win here? If not, destructive range and capability should give it to him. He should be FAR more than capable dodging anything Sans can throw at him, and can you even say that Sans can sufficiently even react to Beerus?

I think it's the only reason this match is Inconclusive. If it were Speed equalized, Sans should win easily. And again, Teleportation and hax like that will be something Beerus would not expect.

 

[LoudCloud]

So are you implying Beerus would win if he had less of a cocky attitude?

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

So are you implying Beerus would win if he had less of a cocky attitude?

It's pretty accepted so far here that if Beerus feared and respected sans the way he would respect Whis if Whis was trying to seriously kill him, then Beerus would instantly go full force and try to end the fight as past as he possiby could while also backpedaling at full speed to be sure to never touch a single one of San's attacks and in that case would probably win.


In any other case where Beerus does not fear or respect Sans enough to basically panick and try to one shot the instant he sees Sans, he will almost certaintly get hit by at least one of sans many many attacks, considering how harmless Sans appears with his complete lack of physical power and all the hax he can use to catch beerus off guard.


And with KR, one slight graze to Beerus is instant death.

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

Considering these circumstances and that this battle is 'in character' and that the fighters don't know anything about each other aside from that they want to fight to the death, I can't see Beerus taking this anywhere near seriously enough to avoid taking even a single hit from sans. Beerus is very likely to try and parry or block one of the attacks to measure its power or show off / intimidate his opponent. Additionally, every time Sans reveals a new hax for the first time there will probbaly be an opening to tag Beerus even if only slightly with one of his attacks.

Sans opening gambit in a fight IS to immediately soul hax gravity slam you into his attack that he summons from your feet, followed by a rapid barrage consisting of his strongest possible attack. The very first thing he will do is use soul hax on beerus to disorient him long enough to tag him with a bone summoned midair at point blank range. This is the opening move and sans has tons of more cheap tricks that all are capable of sneaking in a single hit here and there, even on a time manipulating character like Chara who has fought Sans many times and should know his tricks by heart.

All it takes is one minor tap and Beerus is done. In character, there's just no way he would take his only chance to win and speedblitz Sans at absolute full power and speed the nanosecond that the match starts, not when he can sense how weak sans is physicaly.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

So are you implying Beerus would win if he had less of a cocky attitude?

If both were bloodlusted or Beerus had prior knowledge on what Sans can do and take him out beforehand, yeah Beerus would win hands down.

Also, I did not say Sans can defeat a Multiversal being in a couple of seconds. I said it takes only a few seconds of being in contact with Sans' attack before Chara dies, due to the high LV and EXP they have. Chara needs to dodge his attacks to avoid dying. He beat Chara multiple times, again, it's written in his profile. These two statements are completely different.

 

[LoudCloud]

So are you implying Beerus would win if he had less of a cocky attitude?

If both were bloodlusted or Beerus had prior knowledge on what Sans can do and take him out beforehand, yeah Beerus would win hands down.
Also, I did not say Sans can defeat a Multiversal being in a couple of seconds. I said it takes only a few seconds of being in contact with Sans' attack before Chara dies, due to the high LV and EXP they have. Chara needs to dodge his attacks to avoid dying. He beat Chara multiple times, again, it's written in his profile. These two statements are completely different.

And would you say Chara has only killed the amount of people demonstrated in the game (aprox 95 monsters)? Because that would be vital to calculate how effective Sans KR is.

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

Yes. Chara didn't kill anyone (other than themself *spoiler*) until the start of the genocide run. They died and became a disemodied spirit of some kind until they latched onto frisk who was their reincarnation after frisk fell into the under ground and landed onto the golden patch of flowers. We as the player participate in everything Chara does from then on until the sans fight, so we know exactly how many people they killed at that point since the requirements for the genocide run are that you kill a specific number of of people in every area (save points even tell you how many are left) and after you hit that amount 'enemies' no longer show up in that area ("but nobody came....").

 

[LoudCloud]

Sure.

Yeah sure, Sans wins due to Beerus having that good ol' fashioned Dragon Ball "I'm stronger than you so come at me bro" attitude.