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Bayonetta 2 downgrade

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The left eye is not an amp, it does not give her increased power. Saying that she did so with the left eye means nothing.
 
It is an amp since Balder used the Right Eye to amp a cannon to blow up the moon.
 
Also appologies for making everyone wait so long i passed out as soon as i got home from work, i'll write up the 3-A upgrade argument now
 
You literally see his eye glowing in the cutscene when he nukes the moon. That clearly shows he’s using the right eye.
 
Okay, so lets start off with the big on i keep seeing here for some reason: The Left Eye is NOT an amp in any way, shape, or form. Nowhere in the lore or in the game itself is it shown to grant Bayonetta any form of enhanced power. Pardon me for using the Bayonetta wiki for a source but the quotes from the in-game guide are the same:

bayonetta.fandom.com

Eyes of the World

The Eyes of the World (called individually the Left Eye of Darkness and the Right Eye of Light) were a set of ancient powers and the "treasures" of the Lumen Sages and the Umbra Witches. The sages were given the Right Eye while the Umbra Witches received the Left Eye.[1] The Eyes of the World...
bayonetta.fandom.com bayonetta.fandom.com

"However, Aesir pitied the humans for their naivety and lack of free will, so the power he wielded was split into two equal halves and entrusted each to humanity's instincts: the Right Eye of Light, and the Left Eye of Darkness. By dividing the power of the eyes of Aesir, humans gained free will... They could now choose. With control of the Eyes of the World, the eyes that determine destiny, humans could choose their own paths. They awoke to their own identities. Man is but a reed, the most feeble thing in nature, but now we were thinking reeds, and we took our big first step towards grand prosperity.

The inheritors of the eyes of Aesir had been granted the power of creation."

Among other things, the Eyes individually just give the user high willpower and free will, as well as heightened intelligence and limited clairvoyance, no increased power. As for the example of Balder shooting that laser, not only was he using the power of Jubileus at the time but it was with both Eyes, not just his Right Eye. And even if you wanted to claim that it was an amp, that would invalidate this entire thread as Bayonetta has the Left Eye active for the entirety of Bayonetta 2 and fought Balder who had the Right Eye active the entire time several times.

Figure i'll let you guys discuss this part while i write up the rest.
 
Despite the fact that Aesir was weakened with the lack of said eyes, and was significantly weakened when Loki erased both eyes. Secondly, prove it was actually both eyes at the same time, because it only showed Balder using his own eye to nuke the moon, not the powers of Jubileus. Also prove that the Left eye was active for the entirety of Bayonetta 2, cause nothing suggested she had it on the entire time.
 
Correct, because both eyes together act as an amp, but individually they are not.



Jeanne was in the act of putting Bayo out of Jubileus when Balder shot her with the laser, though im not entirely sure why that has anything to do with this argument as Bayonetta 2 Bayo would scale vastly above Jeanne

Also its the other way around, Jubileus had both Bayo and Balder when the laser destroyed the moon, Balder was just controlling her power, you even see both of them are active in Jubileus before they even get up into space
 
So the eyes weren't an amp before but now they ARE? What kind of backwards logic is this?

You completely ignored my point. The point I'm making is that the attack Jeanne tanked in that scene was nowhere near as strong as the shot Balder used to blow up the moon. Saying Serious Jeanne scales to that level because she tanked a pathetic energy blast is the same thing as saying Krillin scales to any main villain DBZ character that oneshots him.

Except for the fact that the only time he remotely used any form of power was with the right eye that he has.

So you mind telling me again how any of the Loptr fights did not end in Bayonetta losing? I'm still waiting for an explanation btw.
 
Theyre not an amp when split up yes, theyre only an amp when theyre together. And honestly i should ask the same question about backwards logic seeing as youre making the claim that the eyes alone are an amp and that Bayo had the Left Eye in Bayo 2 yet was somehow weaker.

She...doesnt? Other than the comparison to Krillin being kinda inaccurate as she didnt get oneshot I dont see the issue here?

Execpt even without using the Right Eye he demonstrated the ability to project the same type of energy blasts.

First fight against Loptr Bayo put up an extensive fight, was temporarily backed into a corner and Loki opened the gate of hell before the fight could finish. Fight against young Loptr Bayo was actively overpowering him so he nuked the battlefield and fled before bayo could defeat him. Fight against one-eye Loptr Bayo was putting up a good fight against him but he incapped her by forcibly activating the left eye, which as i stated and gave proof of before knocks her out.
 
Because she only gets the amp with the left eye and NOTHING in the entire game of Bayo 2 implies she had the amp the entire time. How about you prove that actually because you seem to have a recurring problem of giving proof to your claims.

If you don't see the issue here then you need to recheck the scene again cause I already explained it in the OP. If you're not gonna address how those are two separate shots and varies greatly in power and how it charges up, etc. Then you basically aren't able to refute the point, simple as that.

Yeah, the same type of energy blast with varying degrees of power. Show the proof she tanked a full power shot from Balder instead of a pathetic shot shown in the game, cause you once again, don't bring proof.

No she wasn't just backed into a corner, she was on her knees struggling to stand up whatsoever and Loptr was taunting her about how weak she is, the only reason why Bayonetta didn't get murdered was because Loki opened the hell gates. Oh and btw, that whole claim you said about the Left Eye not being an amp? Loptr basically asked her why she didn't unlock her true potential, and the next line after that, he refers to her Left Eye. Where was she overpowering him? Cause the end of the fight shows him knocking into a corner and throwing a building at her and she gets knocked out, you seem to keep forgetting that minor detail that's kinda important when it comes to these outcomes for the fights. How is summoning two demons at him, both of which get oneshotted like no tomorrow, and then getting blitzed by Loptr while he's taunting her on how weak she is remotely close to Bayonetta being comparable to Loptr, let alone winning the actual fight?
 
Because its not an amp. If you believe it to be an amp then please post where in the lore or game its stated to be an amp when just one eye is used.

Im not refuting it because i agree with you, i legit dont see the issue with what you said and dont understand why it matters here.

She didnt. From whati can tell youre kinda just yelling at m for claims i didnt make when im agreeing with you lol.

She was in fact backed into a corner. And the whole 'struggling to stand up' was because he attacked her mind and forced her to see visions of the past through the Left Eye (Not sure why i need to keep pointing out that this causes great strain on her). Again, she didnt get knocked out, just knocked away, which he then used as an opening to destroy the battlefield and escape. You are awar that her demons are significantly weaker than her right? Like even in the first game Balder noped two of her demons casually and that was when they were both weaker than in Bayonetta 2. Also he definitely didnt blitz her, he just got her from a blind spot as her back was turned.

I have the 3-A stuff typed up btw but i'll post it after we get this part squared away, im sure neither of us want to have to deal with two different arguments at once.
 
Looking through the arguments, the Jeanne downgrade makes sense. Neutral about the base form though.

But I'm more interested in the 3-A stuff yes.
 
Well then lets get the disagreement on Bayo scaling to Loptr or not settled so we can get to the fun talk. The thought of 3-A bayo gives me a warm and happy feeling.
 
I mean to put it frankly, two out of the three times Bayo fought Loptr they were fairly even and then Loptr used hax speficially shown to incap Bayo in order to win and the third he fled before the fight was over
 
I literally gave you the clip in my last post saying Loptr implies the Left Eye to be an amp, and again the Right eye is something Balder used to nuke the moon.

ok then. You ignored the past ten seconds before she sees a vision through Loptr where she's already on her knees barely able to stand up after a few laser shots. Again, she wasn't knocked away she was knocked OUT. She literally woke up from being unconscious from her fight with Loptr in the past. Can you address the part where she literally got knocked out by Loptr in the past? Cause you keep saying she got knocked away when that blatantly did not happen. So if her demons are weaker than her, why would she even use it at all if they're fodder tier then? The fact that she always uses it to finish off the enemies would imply they're at least on her level. If not then that raises more questions than answers. Yes, when she literally turned around to see him fly right up to her and didn't get the chance to escape. Same time as when she got hit by three lasers in the first fight when she DIDN'T have her back turned on him, meaning she again could not keep up with Loptr at all.
 
She could've just used summons as a means to restrain him or just take him to inferno quick and easy to hold up her part of the contract with said demon. Bayo is undoubtedly equal to both bayo 1 balder and bayo 2 balder who can one shot her summons so I don't know why Bayo being superior to her summons is in question here.
 
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In nearly every single summon Bayonetta does to her foes she always uses them to destroy them. Only after they get destroyed by the summons do they get sent to Inferno as shown with the main bosses in Bayo 1.
 
Balder didnt just use the right eye to nuke the moon, that was jubileus, i posted the clip where both eyes were active in the scene before it happened.

Except shes not, she actively stands up and declares that shes not done fighting.

She uses the demons because she canonically has to, she has to make constant sacrifices to the demons she summons in order to maintain her contract with Inferno otherwise they will drag her to hell.

Yes, that is what it means to take someone by surprise from a blind spot, especially when that person is focused on summoning a demon.
 
No it wasn't Jubileus because she wasn't even a thing until much later. Pay attention to the cutscenes because it blatantly showed just Balder using his Right Eye to nuke the moon.

Ok, plenty of characters in fiction do that, that doesn't mean they aren't losing. In this case Bayonetta's clearly losing and struggles to stand up.

Ok, and all those other sacrifices she already made with the other angels throughout the game don't count somehow?

Except Bayonetta in her first fight with Loptr was not focused on summoning a demon, and was facing towards Loptr, he shot a laser at her, and she couldn't react to it, so she cannot keep up with him. Can you address all of my points for once instead of cherry pick certain points?
 
That scene honestly felt like an outlier to me. Bayo just blankly stares at him while he charges his attack and bayo just does nothing as if her reaction speed was way slower than the average human.
 
Just wanna jump in and say two things.

The beam that destroyed the moon is blue, and Balder clearly was the one in control of performing the feat, so through context alone it really does seem like a feat entirely performed on Balder's side.

Jubileus only becomes a full functioning entity after Bayo was pulled out.
 
I already did explain it. Two out of the three times Bayo fought Loptr they were fairly even and then Loptr used hax speficially shown to incap Bayo in order to win and the third he fled before the fight was over
 
Sir_Ovens said:
Just wanna jump in and say two things.

The beam that destroyed the moon is blue, and Balder clearly was the one in control of performing the feat, so through context alone it really does seem like a feat entirely performed on Balder's side.

Jubileus only becomes a full functioning entity after Bayo was pulled out.
Click to expand...
Jubileus also uses blue energy attacks, just saying
 
How were they fairly even? because the end of their fights tell us otherwise.

Jubileus was not even awakened at that time, Balder was the only one in control.
 
Theglassman12 said:
No it wasn't Jubileus because she wasn't even a thing until much later. Pay attention to the cutscenes because it blatantly showed just Balder using his Right Eye to nuke the moon.

Ok, plenty of characters in fiction do that, that doesn't mean they aren't losing. In this case Bayonetta's clearly losing and struggles to stand up.

Ok, and all those other sacrifices she already made with the other angels throughout the game don't count somehow?

Except Bayonetta in her first fight with Loptr was not focused on summoning a demon, and was facing towards Loptr, he shot a laser at her, and she couldn't react to it, so she cannot keep up with him. Can you address all of my points for once instead of cherry pick certain points?
Click to expand...
It didnt come from him or the right eye though, it came from the huge thing above him

Except she doesnt, and again he used hax specifically meant to incap her to win that fight

Correct, she even says it herself in the first game, she needs to keep a constant stream of sacrifices going otherwise the demons she is contracted with will come after her, its why she uses summons to drag any enemy that isnt fodder to inferno after she beats them.

I was referring to the second fight
 
The huge thing that was powered by Balder's right eye as shown in the very next still image.

No he didn't, he used it after she was on her knees. So you're either lying to me or didn't play the same game I did because I have the cutscene in the OP if you want to refresh your memories on what actually happened.

Ok and this just raises more questions as to why she sends demons to their deaths when she needs them to use her power in the first place.

The second fight literally ends with Loptr knocking her out. Maybe check again on the scene where Bayonetta was knocked out from the fight before you keep saying they're on even playing field. If you will not address the fact that she literally got knocked out then this is getting nowhere and you're not bringing anything new to the table.
 
So why would she waste her time doing summons if they're weaker than her? Against someone who already bodies her multiple times
 
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