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Battletoads Upgrades

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Bzt! I wasz That Misszzle! Now it'szz going to Craszzh! The way he said Going to crash heavily implies he was about to crash into something. The Missile is clearly "Powerful enough to destroy the Earth." Tier 7 would just be a Peashooter as far as attempting to destroy planets is concerned. How the hell would a City level missile destroy the planet? Also, the size is irrelevant next to its actual power. And again, it still scales to his durability, and would in turn scale to the Battletoads because they can trade blows.

And for the Sword example feat splitting feat, it's more like there was also one person who took a direct hit from the very sword strike that split the Earth; meaning he withstood the 5-A striking strength feat and thus scale to his durability.

Now as for regularly having access. I have posted multiple scans above the links to the Instruction Manuals for multiple Battletoads games. The Dark Queen has conquered the galaxy and access to multiple ships and missiles similar to the Colossus/Ratship as well as the Earth-Busting Missile. Even though we only twice see them in game, it's the extended lore that reasons she has Tier 5 stuff regularly. And she also has a bunch of Massively FTL+ ships that go without saying. And the fact that Robo-Manus was the right hand man who regularly pilots missiles like he does here, and showing no signs of fear when he's about to crash into the Earth and destroy the entire planet shows that it's very heavily implied that even if the Missile has crashed into the Earth and blows it up, Robo-Manus would have lived. Robo-Manus should scale from it similar to how Garland (Final Fantasy I) scales from Nitro Powder.

The Ratship wasn't completely destroyed by the Rat Pods; and heck, even wording it that way implies they should be Tier 5 as well. It had the guns destroyed and the Ratship simply losts it's engine and forced to land. The ship itself was still in tact even if it can't fly or shoot anymore. But then the Missile being redirected and crashing into the junk yard pile where the remains of the ship is is what truly destroys it completely. Which Robo-Manus again lives and is still conscious through the missile crash.

And as mentioned above, the casual Robo-Manus getting punched would be more like High 7-A if reasonably downplayed as low as possible. Since the DeviantArt link lowballed his weight at 150 kg when he's actually 5865.4029 kg. So the calc for the low end feat is (5865.4029*299792458^2/sqrt(1-(68315625^2/299792458^2))-(5865.4029*299792458^2) = 1.4244206*10^19 Joules or 3.40444694118 Gigatons which is High 7-A or Large Mountain level+. And the last thing I want is a repeat of this thread.
 
Btw, Dark Queen spinning around and attacking the Battletoads is used as one of the feats to disprove 5-A isn't it? That feels the same as arguing if two characters fight each other by becoming blurs then that's a 9-C feat that has to be weighed against their other feats to determine consistency.

Sub rel also seems to be the speed at which she leaves the battlefield after the fight by flying into space, not the speed she was actually rotating so I'm not sure if the rating associated with the feat is even accurate

The missile feat being tier 7 is also in contention right now so shouldn't really be used as evidence until Kep has got it accepted

That leaves one legit tier 7 showing . So Battletoads being "consistently tier 7" doesn't seem to be true at all.
 
Kepekley23 makes a good point about that this feat seems like an outlier. Sorry.
 
Kepekley23 hasn't exactly been the most reasonable one here as of late, and Andy was actually the one who was legitimately trying to be reasonable. First off, I find it arbitrary that a missile that is outright stated to be "Earth busting" is only Tier 7. It was agreed that the Ratship alone was easily 5-A since it crashing through the moon was a legit feat, but the "Low end" feats literally come from just extremely casual movement speed feats as I said above.

If someone swings a sword at Massively Hypersonic+ speeds that gets calc'd at Tier 7, but used that same sword swing to cause a Tier 5 destruction feat, the destruction feat should take higher priority. Especially if there's a character that literally survived a direct hit from that sword strike. And saying the protagonists regularly fight urban level enemies, who are fodder by the way, is the same thing as JRPG protagonists scaling from fodder Tier 9/8 enemies rather than the end game bosses who have feats far above that. And as I said, the 2 Tier 7 feats I'm talking about is simply the Dark Queen, flying of the planet's atmosphere at Sub-Relativistic speeds calculated at Town level. And the other, using the correct formula of Robo-Manus's mass is the Toads punching and launching Robo at Relativistic speeds being calculated at High 7-A both those are both super casual low end feats.

It is literally said that the same missile that's about to destroy the Earth has Robo-Manus piloting on the missiles tip and he's very casual about it. As if it's an everyday thing to be in the epic center of a planet busting explosion and surviving. And Kep also said some misinformation. When he said, "The missile was destroyed by outside sources", that was actually not true as the missile was never destroyed during the boss fight. But the following character statements implies he's about to crash into the remains of the Large planet level durability ship.

Also, there are some notable double standards for the "Outlier" argument. AssaltWaffle said that saying "Outlier" at every high end feat we see is one of the poorest excuses here to downplay a lot of characters. Instead of just "1 or 2 feats" combined with "Being much greater than every other feat that came before it", there needs to be more elaborate context and other reasons. Other examples are whether or not the low end feats are casual, but here they are meaning any feats higher than the Tier 7 should still qualify. Or did the high end feat require a plot power up they don't normally have access to; which the 5-A feat did come from a super weapon, so the super weapon itself is 5-A, but one of the bosses actually is legit stated to be capable of surviving a comparable super weapon.

I still think 5-A or at least in somewhere in the Tier 6/5 spectrum makes the most sense since the Missile regardless of the potential explosion, the missile alone is still more than capable of wiping out the entire human population, and it's power means everything. Which one-shotting the entire planetary population would have to be way higher than Tier 7. So given the corrected calculation for the Toads launching Robo-Manus, the absolute lowest they'd have to be upgraded to would be "At least High 7-A, likely far higher.

And nobody argued against the speed upgrades or the additional abilities by the looks of it. There's a couple Relativistic and even Massively FTL+ speed feats listed on both the OP which also scales to combat speed and reactions of the characters. The one part I'll agree with being an outlier is the 3-A feat from Battletoads in Battlemaniacs since that required a special power up with the Toads breaking the plot.
 
What he's saying about the missile is that destroying a planet busting missile doesn't require anywhere near tier 5 amounts of energy. Explosive weapons being as durable as their yield would actually stifle basically all of their output.
 
No one's saying the missile is as durable at the impact, only that the Ship that fired the missile does. So a bit of a strawman there. Since it was the ship's ramming strength that's 5-A and scales to the durability of that via Newton's Third law. It's not the same Glass Cannon as the Death Star, which only has Continent level durability, but it literally has 5-A ramming strength and durability.

The Missile would still have to Tier 6 to wipe out the entire human population, and is still heavily implied to have more Attack Potency than the Ratship.
 
Why would a ship have to tank its own armaments?
 
@Wok Didn't he explain already? The ship rammed into something with 5-A force and was intact, hence it has 5-A durability
 
The ship doesn't tank the missile, it takes its own ramming strength. Robo-Manus the character on the tip of the missile is who tanks it when it completely destroys the ship. Implying Robo-Manus is even more durable than the Rat-Ship. It's similar to how ESU Sidious tanks the Death Star detonation. I'm also late for work, so I can't respond till like 10 hours or so.
 
Well, I suppose that Medeus makes a good argument. I will butt out of this discussion then.
 
> Bzt! I wasz That Misszzle! Now it'szz going to Craszzh! The way he said Going to crash heavily implies he was about to crash into something. The Missile is clearly "Powerful enough to destroy the Earth." Tier 7 would just be a Peashooter as far as attempting to destroy planets is concerned. How the hell would a City level missile destroy the planet?

First of all - "crash" is very popular slang for something being torn to pieces, destroyed, or rendered unusable. And it clearly did not crash against anything, considering it was on a direct collision course with the Earth and it was stopped by the heroes before it could collide. No cutscenes show what happened so there's no way to draw the conclusion you're trying to draw

And for the fifth time - the missile's power is completely irrelevant. The missile itself being intercepted and destroyed is not anywhere near Tier 5. Straight up. I have explained why several times already in this thread.

> Now as for regularly having access. I have posted multiple scans above the links to the Instruction Manuals for multiple Battletoads games. The Dark Queen has conquered the galaxy and access to multiple ships and missiles similar to the Colossus/Ratship as well as the Earth-Busting Missil

I see absolutely nothing on any of those scans that suggest she consistently sends Robo-Manus out to destroy planets or that he regularly tanks them. The part about him tanking them is definitely made up from what I can see.

> Also, the size is irrelevant next to its actual power.

The size is completely relevant when the only thing that Robo-Manus can be assumed to have tanked with certainty is the missile itself being intercepted, thus a Tier 7 explosion.

> Even though we only twice see them in game, it's the extended lore that reasons she has Tier 5 stuff regularly

Literally zero Tier 5 feats in your extra scans. Even if it did say that she has Tier 5 weapons and spaceships to use against other people, which I don't deny, it wouldn't scale to anyone in the slightest, so it doesn't matter anyway.

> And the fact that Robo-Manus was the right hand man who regularly pilots missiles like he does here, and showing no signs of fear when he's about to crash into the Earth and destroy the entire planet shows that it's very heavily implied that even if the Missile has crashed into the Earth and blows it up, Robo-Manus would have lived.

Robo-Manus was sent in as a last resort after the Ratship got destroyed and stopped by the heroes. It wasn't even a previously-planned thing from the villains, it was a last resort. So this is also false.

> The Ratship wasn't completely destroyed by the Rat Pods; and heck, even wording it that way implies they should be Tier 5 as well. It had the guns destroyed and the Ratship simply losts it's engine and forced to land. The ship itself was still in tact even if it can't fly or shoot anymore.

This is pure headcanon. The game literally ends after Robo-Manus is defeated, with absolutely no statements about the missile crashing against the Ratship or about the ship is still being there, as anyone can check just by going to this link to see I ain't bullshitting. Not only that, the ship is outright shown being torn to pieces with nearly no remains in-game, with only the missile being left, with the loading screen dialog right after outright stating that it was shattered.

So no, this never happened.
 
Gonna reply to the new post in an hour as soon as I get back from the gym - I have to go out now.
 
There's also 0 evidence to suggest the missile was intercepted and destroyed by outside sources, only that it was going to crash. And Crash is a popular slang for when a video game glitches or a computer shuts down, but a car, ship or missile crashing would be more literal to say it crashes into something. Such as if the missile did a U-Turn.

It is meant that the Dark Queen actually has many Rat Ships and Rat Missiles, and that she has enough firepower to conquer the galaxy. Yes the statement alone doesn't mean they have a bunch of Tier 5 weapons, but the Ratship alone is Tier 5 and the Missile definitely has even more fire power.

If "there's no proof that Robo-Manus can survive the planet busting missile" like you claim, why does Robo-Manus showcase absolute zero signs of fear when he's riding on the tip of the missile as if it colliding with the Earth and blowing it all up won't even scratch him? I don't think a Tier 7 character would be so casual about the thought of being in the epic center of a planetary destruction.

Dark Queen technically never wanted to destroy the Earth, she simply wanted to conquer it initially. Yes, she was petty about her ship being wrecked and that's why she decided to just launch the missile as her last resort. Because if she couldn't have Earth, no one could. Also, the game doesn't end after the fight with Robo-Manus. You also make your way back to Earth to fight Shadow Boss (Who's a completely original Battletoads character even though he's supposed to be based on a generic Double Dragon villain), and the Dark Queen herself. Though not much relevance.

And my bad. I recalled the Hull being in tact, but that also means Dark Queen survived the detonation of the Ratship and found her way on Earth outpacing the missile. Another speed feat, and it seems she's almost as casual as Robo-Manus literally putting herself on the same planet she plans to explode. Not to mention the more you say the Rat Pods destroy the Ratship, the more that only strengthens as the backward counter argument to the Rat Pods being able to damage a ship with Large Planet level durability. I know I hate backwards scaling, but seriously, a Tier 5-A durability ship that happens to be "City sized" would have to mean it's made of some Adamantium like metal.
 
> There's also 0 evidence to suggest the missile was intercepted and destroyed by outside sources, only that it was going to crash. And Crash is a popular slang for when a video game glitches or a computer shuts down, but a car, ship or missile crashing would be more literal to say it crashes into something. Such as if the missile did a U-Turn.

How would it do a U-Turn without Robo-Manus there to pilot it? That doesn't make any sense.

The missile was on a direct collision course with the Earth and it was nearly there by the time it was destroyed. Either it didn't crash against it, and was intercepted by the cast, or it did crash, but wasn't powerful enough to do what it was claimed to.

The whole scene is extremely vague and the game ends upon Robo-Manus' defeat. Drawing conclusions from a scene like this is almost impossible. You could assume several things such as Robo-Manus managing to eject from the missile and escape from it before it crashed, the missile being intercepted like I'm arguing to be the most believable based on the circumstances, him indeed surviving the blast, and etc.

Him escaping is actually supported by the fact that the Queen is also shown escaping the Earth via a space-pod in the last cutscene, so it's definitely something that can be considered.

> It is meant that the Dark Queen actually has many Rat Ships and Rat Missiles, and that she has enough firepower to conquer the galaxy. Yes the statement alone doesn't mean they have a bunch of Tier 5 weapons

Once again DDM, please read my posts with more attention. I never denied that the Ratship or the Missile is Tier 5, or even that she has a bunch of them. But this is all completely irrelevant to her own Attack Potency. You have yet to show any shred of additional evidence that she scales to her own weapons aside from an extremely vague feat by Robo-Manus which we can assume anything.

> If "there's no proof that Robo-Manus can survive the planet busting missile" like you claim, why does Robo-Manus showcase absolute zero signs of fear when he's riding on the tip of the missile as if it colliding with the Earth and blowing it all up won't even scratch him?

There is not even proof that he would still be on the missile by the time it crashed, by the way. He could have easily ejected from the ship and made his escape just before that happened, just like the Dark Queen did while the Ratship was being destroyed.

And Robo-Manus could be argued not to be caring for the same reason the Queen no longer cares about conquering the Earth; because it's a last-resort ditch technique that they have as a way of saying "**** you" to Earth for stopping them from taking over it.

> And my bad. I recalled the Hull being in tact, but that also means Dark Queen survived the detonation of the Ratship and found her way on Earth outpacing the missile.

No. This is false. As seen in the end of the game, she appeared to have used a small spacespod from the Ratship to escape its destruction and make her way to Earth, which is why she is seen flying away in the same ship after her defeat - and this is actually a massive anti-feat for this revision, as it shows she doesn't think herself able to survive the resulting explosion.

And she didn't outpace the missile. She wasn't even shown appearing there before Robo-Manus' defeat, she could have easily been just outside the planet's atmosphere waiting for the missile to crash.

> Not to mention the more you say the Rat Pods destroy the Ratship, the more that only strengthens as the backward counter argument to the Rat Pods being able to damage a ship with Large Planet level durability

Eh...no. This is all the exact same feat being exploited and scaled. This is just making the same thing scale to more people.

> I know I hate backwards scaling, but seriously, a Tier 5-A durability ship that happens to be "City sized" would have to mean it's made of some Adamantium like metal.

Maybe. This is irrelevant though.
 
By the way; yet another Tier 7 lore feat in the same game is the energy beam the Queen sends over to Earth to shut down all the world's militaries. That would require an EMP roughly on the Tier 7 range.
 
Oh, and by the way again, the previous games all have feats from the God-Tiers that go against this revision.

In the previous game, the main villain is a guy called Silas Volkmire, who is actually assisted by the Dark Queen. The best feat in the storyline is when a portal is opened to a game/virtual world called Gamescape, which then begins to leak/merge towards our own world. The main villain's plan is to let the approaching Gamescape World to warp/distort the Earth into his own desires.

So this shows that the main villain of the previous game can't perform High 6-A shit by himself, and needs preptime/to maintain a portal opened so that the powers of another dimension leaking into our does the job. Already an anti-feat.

And guess how he is defeated? By having his relatively small UFO spaceship blown up by the Toads, who never engage him in direct combat and have to use a battle helicopter to defeat him, and his UFO then crashes into the Himalayas and he needs to retreat. So he is defeated by Tier 7 shit and his best feat is surviving a crash landing on the Earth, which still forces him to retreat.

So the God-Tiers in the previous game can't even perform Tier 6 feats through their own power.
 
How would a U-Turn make sense without Robo-Manus to pilot it? The Battletoads are scientific geniuses, or at least Zitz is. They could have reprogrammed the Rat Missile to be aimed at the junkyard pile of where ever the pile of the Ratship's guns and outer shells that broke off were. Hence T-Bird's "Joining the junkyard pile" statement.

I did read your posts, at least we're on the same page that the Ratship is indeed Tier 5. But still, those are only statements to disprove her destructive capacity and/or her lack of range to destroy planets. Being incapable of destroying things doesn't disprove Attack Potency or Durability. Just like how it takes multiple hits for Kratos to cut down a tree. But yes, we do need more back up than that.

An okay point about Robo-Manus, but considering he was literally standing on the tip of the missile as if he's deliberately planning to take the full impact. And the nearest escape pod was inside one of the rooms pretty far away from him, it seems doubtful.

Fair point about Dark Queen, but then again, even universal beings escaped planets before they exploded. Then again, it's rather the lack of oxygen rather than the force of the explosion in that regard.

Yes, the laser would be around High 7-A, I think that was the world's global assuming the source I remember isn't dated. Never considered that feat Tier 5, just the Rat Missile and the Rat Ship, and Robo-Manus's likely durability feat.

The Silas Volkmire example use doesn't have any relevance. Also, first you say surviving a planet busting missile is Tier 7, and now you say reality warping a universe is Tier 6? World in this context means universe; the Gamescape is a Quantum spaced virtual world containing numerous galaxies, it's an entire universe. Same with the game within a game Battletoads takes place in to begin with. Not to mention, Silas Volkmire is hooked up to the Gamescape generator and also gave Dark Queen powers to Reality Warp their own universe. Hence the quote, "Trapping them in the Dark Queen's Universe"

The plot of Battlemaniacs is Rash and Pimple entering the same universe Dark Queen and Silas are capable of warping to rescue Zitz and Michiko. And the Toads were still able to defeat the Dark Queen in battle despite her Universal powers. And yes, after they were rescued, the Battletoads returned to their own world, where Silas and Dark Queen were forced to escape in a U.F.O., which was then destroyed by the Battlecopter, while they were flying at what appears to be Massively FTL+ speeds given the starry background was scrolling. And Dark Queen at least survived it. It's not Tier 7 and the Universal stuff are outliers given the requirement of a power up, but pretending a Universal Feat is only Tier 6 and using that to argue against Tier 5 (Which also doubles against the Attack Potency =/= Destructive capacity argument) is a horrible tactic.
 
Well, the "ba da ba ba ba I'm lovin it" was a McDonalds reference


Oh, you mean the thing in general.

Nothing major. It's just that we both know a recent instance where portals were used as a reason against a certain upgrade.
 
"Just like it takes Kratos multiple hits to cut a tree"

...Even I know you shouldn't have made this statement
 
No offense intended at all DDM, but it really sounds like you are rambling right now and I am not sure you are replying to what I am posting with how some of your post is structured and how you come up with sentences that have nothing to do with what I said in my post, but I will respond soon anyway - just about to finish writing something important up.
 
I'm not rambling, I was answering your points step by step. Gamescape is a virtual Universe Silas Volkmire programmed and created that has the power to suck in people. And he gave Dark Queen the power to warped that world by putting her in the game. It's an outlier yes, and no one is universal. I'm not even defending Tier 5 too much anymore and now just want to move on to the Tier 7 parts that are accepted. Which High 7-A is still legit. And also want to move on to speed upgrades + additional abilities listed in the OP now.
 
To me, Kep is being generally much more reasonable in this thread and putting his thoughts out more clearly.

DDM has good intentions but I have legit had to read his posts several times in this thread to finally understand what was the point of some of his paragraphs.

And, just as a note, Universal is indeed completely irreconciliable with the verse's general standing and obviously not going to be accepted. No need to dwell on it, no offense because even the supporters of Tier 5 have highlighted as much. The God-Tiers of this verse are consistently high Tier 7 and even the 5-A stuff is via several steps of powerscaling
 
@Paradox, technology was still agreed to be Tier 5, but it comes from two routes. It comes from Rat Pods being able to destroy the Rat ship and take some direct hits from it as well. And it comes the the Toads being able to effortlessly wreck apart those same Rat Pods as well as survive the same missiles that damage/destroy the Rat Ship. The Robo-Manus durability feat is vague yes, but it's still not the realm of impossibility.

But still, the Tier 7 stuff still comes from extremely casual showings where as possible Tier 5 stuff were the feats that required some form of effort. Tengu Shredder doesn't destroy even destroy buildings and his goal was just to conquer all of Japan, but he caused a solar eclipse making him 5-A.

Also going to work soon, so I'll be inactive for 10 hours.
 
> How would a U-Turn make sense without Robo-Manus to pilot it? The Battletoads are scientific geniuses, or at least Zitz is. They could have reprogrammed the Rat Missile to be aimed at the junkyard pile of where ever the pile of the Ratship's guns and outer shells that broke off were. Hence T-Bird's "Joining the junkyard pile" statement.

Alright. Just for the outsiders in this discussion, let me just show you what happens after Robo-Manus' defeat.

This is literally it. A short loading screen dialog where they tell Robo-Manus that he will join the Ratship on the junkyard pile and a statement from Robo-Manus that he can no longer fly the missile.

Drawing a conclusion that the ship was reprogrammed by the Toads to fly away and then crash into a ship that was outright shown to have already been destroyed before (thus making this plan impossible) is making a big amount of assumptions.

However, assuming that the missile was just intercepted and destroyed, thus why the game completely ignores this sequence and goes on to the next boss-fight on Earth, without the slightest mention of Robo-Manus or this ordeal ever again, requires a considerably fewer number of assumptions.

There are four conclusions to be made:

  • 1. The missile was reprogrammed to crash against the area of the already-destroyed Ratship, with Robo-Manus still on top of it to tank the Tier 5 explosion
  • 2. The missile was destroyed or intercepted somehow, with Robo-Manus still on top of it to tank the then-Tier 7 explosion generated by its destruction.
  • 3. The missile was reprogrammed to crash elsewhere with Robo-Manus ejecting and escaping, just like the Queen was shown to have done, without needing to tank anything.
  • 4. The missile was intercepted and destroyed, with Robo-Manus escaping before its destruction.
Considering the extremely vague amount of information, picking the one that requires the most assumptions and Tier 5 durability of all things is in direct violation of Occam's Razor.

> I did read your posts, at least we're on the same page that the Ratship is indeed Tier 5. But still, those are only statements to disprove her destructive capacity and/or her lack of range to destroy planets.

Not sure what you're trying to say here, I didn't even say anything like that, just that the so-called scans about Robo-Manus regularly tanking planetary explosions that you mentioned didn't even exist. You even admitted this yourself so this part should be droped in its entirety.

Being incapable of destroying things doesn't disprove Attack Potency or Durability

This would only be the case if said character actually had consistent feats at a certain level, or scaled to a consistent amount of feats on that level. Otherwise, a visible inability to showcase DC matching their AP is definitely usable as a counter-argument. This is the entire reason behind why Outliers exist in the wiki and why we don't arbitrarily scale literally everyone to the highest feat ever and just dismiss the low-ends as "AoE fallacy!". Because said argument can only be applied if there is a consistent amount of feats to work with. In this case there is only one feat, that needs to be applied to the Ratship's durability (reasonable due to Newton's Third Law) before being applied to the pods, before being applied to the Toads that can kinda bust said pods.

> An okay point about Robo-Manus, but considering he was literally standing on the tip of the missile as if he's deliberately planning to take the full impact.

This is false. Robo-Manus is piloting the missile from its cocktip before he is forced to leave to fight the Toads. From that area he could presumably press any given button on the panel to eject from it, just like a real-life airplane pilot could. This is further reinforced by the fact that he states that he is needed to fly the missile after his defeat, so we know there are at least controls and buttons to steer it around in the panel.

> Fair point about Dark Queen, but then again, even universal beings escaped planets before they exploded.

Irrelevant for too many reasons. The Queen is not universal, nor is she on a planet, nor does she have feats that justify excusing her low-end, and this still disproves your point about her being "casual" and thinking she could tank the ship being destroyed.

> Yes, the laser would be around High 7-A, I think that was the world's global assuming the source I remember isn't dated

The laser feat would probably be around the 7-A range, yes, running quick calculations.

> The Silas Volkmire example use doesn't have any relevance. Also, first you say surviving a planet busting missile is Tier 7, and now you say reality warping a universe is Tier 6?

1. The missile feat is Tier 7. Have already explained it too many times to count so won't waste any more time on this part.

2. He didn't reality warp anything at all. The entire plot comes from the fact that Psicone, a gaming company, managed to create a device that can create portals between the Gamescape and Earth, thus allowing it to leak through our world and distort and corrupt it. Silas has literally zero to do with the warping itself. All he does is use the situation to his advantage by hooking himself up to a generator so he can absorb power from the Gamescape, which is vague and nowhere near a "Universal Reality Warping" feat. Nor does he grant the Queen the power to "reality warp" a universe. Tha

> The plot of Battlemaniacs is Rash and Pimple entering the same universe Dark Queen and Silas are capable of warping to rescue Zitz and Michiko

No, neither the Queen nor Silas warped anything at all. All Silas did was take advantage of the fact that Psicone managed to create a device that opens a gateway leading into the Gamescape, which resulted in disturbances in our world by the virtue of its influence rushing through the portal. He contributed absolutely nothing to the process itself other than sending minions through said portal. The game's plot wouldn't have even taken place had there not been a portal prepared for him. He uses the Gamescape as a power source but that's so vague it is literally worthless other than him having awesome stamina and an unquantifiable amp.

> . And yes, after they were rescued, the Battletoads returned to their own world, where Silas and Dark Queen were forced to escape in a U.F.O., which was then destroyed by the Battlecopter, while they were flying at what appears to be Massively FTL+ speeds given the starry background was scrolling.

No, they were obviously not. They were literally just outside the Earth's atmosphere, as demonstrated by the fact that Silas' spaceship crashes onto the Himalayas after it is taken dow. Not only that, "stars scrolling" is an argument we have avoided using for MFTL+ feats ever since this wiki's conception.

> Gamescape is a virtual Universe Silas Volkmire programmed and created that has the power to suck in people.

No, he didn't create or program anything. Literally stated word-by-word since the very first game of the franchise that it has always existed.

The Gamescape is a world where anything can happen - where the timeless battle of good and evil is fought with a unique blend of powerful sorcery and high technology. It is a world that has always existed, but which can only now be visited via the portal of computer data."

Silas's best feat in the game is Tier 7.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
But still, the Tier 7 stuff still comes from extremely casual showings where as possible Tier 5 stuff were the feats that required some form of effort. Tengu Shredder doesn't destroy even destroy buildings and his goal was just to conquer all of Japan, but he caused a solar eclipse making him 5-A.
Click to expand...
I am fairly sure Tengu Shredder has additional planetary scale feats, such as him warping the entirety of the Earth. There are also people weaker than him who have High 6-A feats in the show, so it isn't that inconsistent. Additionally, TMNT is a different matter altogether due to the occasional toonforce leading to PIS, making some of the lower showings hard to eat.
 
By the way, after taking another closer look at the scans provided in the OP, I have even more concerns - about whether the Toads scaling to the 5-A feat at all to begin with is even valid.

1. What is the proof that the Pod that the Toads can destroy in the arcade game is the same kind of pod that they used to fight the Ratship? The designs look absolutely nothing alike, both in the NES version and in the Mega Drive port.

2. Why are we even scaling the Ratship's ramming strength to the small pods to begin with? There are no moments where the Ratship rams the pod in the fight. Not to mention that there are no scripted moments in the battle where your pod is actually hit by literally anything in the Ratship's arsenal in order for us to actually scale them at all. Considering how small the pod is, it is equally as likely that the Toads, having excellent reflexes, were able to skillfully dodge every single attack thrown at them, which is further supported by the fact that the Dark Queen, who would have an idea of how durable they are given the pods are from her arsenal, states that the Ratship's arsenal could literally vaporize the pods.

All that we can take as 100% certain for the lore is that the pods can deal damage to the Ratship with their own arsenal, not that they can take damage.
 
Okay fine, no more Rat Missile argument. And the Battletoads in Battlemaniacs was never a center point in my OP as I never said or even remotely implied it to be legit. But it still says he Transforms the world into his Kingdom. And by World, it also means the universe they were in. Not to mention they still call it "The Dark Queen's Universe" but enough of that. I never said they'd be universal, at least not unless Battletoads 2019 shows anything.

And okay, I don't remember anything being mentioned about "Stars scrolling" being an argument against Massively FTL+ but that's more so case by case. They still have Massively FTL+ ships given Dark Queen regularly travels across the galaxy. The very intro to BT&DD does say she traveled to the corner of the universe and back "Within Months". Though, Relativistic speed still scales to combat speed.

"TMNT has Toon Force" so does Battletoads; in fact, Battletoads is all about gags like that. But I digress.

Ratship is definitely 5-A, it's got its own feat and canonical statement to prove that, but the scaling is the question. As for the Arcade, it does say at the beginning of the bonus level "Destroy the Rat Fighter". They're kind of in the same boat as Rat Pod and they're slightly bigger if anything and most likely made of the same metal as Rat Pods. Every flying vehicle owned by Dark Queen has Rat in it And yeah, the "Longplays" are either tool assisted or played by people who are crazy good at the games, so not the best demonstration of Rat Pods tanking. this video shows most of the projectiles the Rat Ship fires does 2 out of 6 damage. And the ship does have a rare occasion ramming attack that does like 4 or 5 damage. But I guess game mechanics, and maybe it's in the same boat as Tie Fighters destroying the Death Star; minus the fact that it's mostly the Jedi using the force to enhance the power of the laser where as Battletoads doesn't have something like that

As for the Missile being intercepted and destroyed, it would be better to actually do a calc instead of circular statements however. But the laser feat would be good too.
 
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