Battle Of Two Gods! Kusuo Saiki Vs Anos Voldigoad!

[ShionAH]

Didn't Qawsed just say "localized space-time hax"? Range is just that, range - I don't think placing a portal or wormhole or SOMETHING between 2 universes or 2 timelines is 4-D, is it?

Space Time is 4D isnt it?

I mean, I looked back and the only argument I saw from you is that "Saiki's plothax should allow him to do anything" which isn't true - unless I'm misinterpreting, in which case feel free to correct me.

If Saiki only has 1 wincon that he doesn't ACTIVELY use in-story to end fights any quicker or such and Anos has multiple that could completely obliterate Saiki from starting range - is that not Anos' win?

If we take the arguement “Plot hax is useless” then Anos stomps
If we take the arguement “Plot hax works” then its either incon or Saiki wins.

Thats what I understood from this, do whatever you want

 

[SeijiSetto]

Space Time is 4D isnt it?

Not how it works. Warping space-time to open a portal or something similar does NOT give you 4-D potency, not in any way at all.

If we take the arguement “Plot hax is useless” then Anos stomps
If we take the arguement “Plot hax works” then its either incon or Saiki wins.

Yup. It appears to be a stomp in Anos' favour because he just insta-nukes Saiki the moment the battle starts.

 

[Dog3352]

If Saiki's 4D abilities (psy-energy?) are blocked, I don't see him beating Anos.
This Plot Manipulation is very strange, if he wrote and continues to write the story, how does he not know what will happen? Why doesn't he just change history however he wants? Honestly, with the lack of feats and statements that he has the ability to change the plot or anything, or even that he would use it in a fight or other situation, it doesn't seem that Plot Manipulation is usable in battle.
If that's the case, in addition to the advantages cited by Tatsumi, and Anos also being able to stop time, I vote for Anos

 

[FeebasExE]

I've checked his profile, and I have no issues with it. He alludes having written the manga to his powers.

If he wrote the story then it's highly he can change it. Except...He doesn't need to change anything at all.

Two Scenarios
1. Saiki gets kicked and goes to rewrite the script to erase that scene. He has no feats for this

2. Saki drives the fight to the conclusion which hasn't been reached yet. He has feats for this. He's not changing anything, just writing it to completion, like the manga and novel

 

[Dog3352]

I've checked his profile, and I have no issues with it. He alludes having written the manga to his powers.

If he wrote the story then it's highly he can change it. Except...He doesn't need to change anything at all.

Two Scenarios
1. Saiki gets kicked and goes to rewrite the script to erase that scene. He has no feats for this

2. Saki drives the fight to the conclusion which hasn't been reached yet. He has feats for this. He's not changing anything, just writing it to completion, like the manga and novel

Basically, still no feats from either of them. Saiki never once used his Plot Manipulation to work out his mistakes or fix other things. The second one is the same thing as the first one, only happening later, which he never did either, he never wrote the conclusion the way he wanted to, he doesn't have accomplishments of either one. Your Plot Manipulation needs to be reviewed whether or not it can be used.

 

[FeebasExE]

Basically, still no feats from either of them. Saiki never once used his Plot Manipulation to work out his mistakes or fix other things. The second one is the same thing as the first one, only happening later, which he never did either, he never wrote the conclusion the way he wanted to, he doesn't have accomplishments of either one. Your Plot Manipulation needs to be reviewed whether or not it can be used.

Firstly. If Saiki himself is saying it then there's no question about it, he wrote the books. He's an accurate source of information about his own powers

He felt like writing it that way. Regardless of how you feel about how he wrote the story, he still did it.

This boy could end the entire planet but guess what, he's living in it for fun. That should tell you he wouldn't just abuse his power to grant himself instant victories.

If anything, it's less about whether plot hax will work or not and more like Saiki wouldn't use it to Insta kill Anos. Which would probably happen eventually once he realises Anos persistence

Anyway. That's what I think about the match so far.

 

[Dog3352]

Firstly. If Saiki himself is saying it then there's no question about it, he wrote the books. He's an accurate source of information about his own powers

He felt like writing it that way. Regardless of how you feel about how he wrote the story, he still did it.

This boy could end the entire planet but guess what, he's living in it for fun. That should tell you he wouldn't just abuse his power to grant himself instant victories.

If anything, it's less about whether plot hax will work or not and more like Saiki wouldn't use it to Insta kill Anos. Which would probably happen eventually once he realises Anos persistence

Anyway. That's what I think about the match so far.

First: I never denied that Saiki wrote his story, but Saiki is constantly surprised by events, doesn't try to rewrite them the way he wants (despite demonstrating several times that he would rather the situation had happened differently), or whatever he did trying to put a precise ending, it is once again, without feats.
Second: Even if somehow he had such an ability, Saiki never used it and there is no way of knowing at what time/circumstance he would use it, much less at the beginning of the moon.
Third: Anos will not be persistent, he has several skills that can instakill or immobilize Saiki to the point where he can't use anything, like: time stop; fear manipulation; erasure of existence; conceptual manipulation/destruction; stat reduction; Mind Manipulation; chain manipulation, paralysis induction and sealing; using magic to hide your existence and become invisible, etc. Unless Saiko uses the ability instantly (which it would be NLF to say he would), he would be quickly caught by Anos, and Anos can immobilize or kill him with a spell or two.

 

[Fixxed]

What saiki can do to abstraction being??

Plot??? Nah. Plot by it default just affect the physical reality, it not affect the abstraction, need further feats. Just like concept cannot affect information by default, plot cannot affect concept and information by default, because they have different type of abstraction and different function

Arnos body can be plot manipulated, but his root that is abstraction cant

And i dont know how can saiki have plot manipulation from write his own story, because i watch the anime there are many events that cannot be handled by saiki
He even cannot handle teruhashi kokomi in many event
or handle akechi touma for know his power, he must rewind time again and again but still useless
So even if he wrote his own story, it very very very limited plot manipulation, because he himself cannot control the plot

 

[FeebasExE]

First: I never denied that Saiki wrote his story, but Saiki is constantly surprised by events, doesn't try to rewrite them the way he wants (despite demonstrating several times that he would rather the situation had happened differently), or whatever he did trying to put a precise ending, it is once again, without feats..

Because he wrote it like that?

Second: Even if somehow he had such an ability, Saiki never used it and there is no way of knowing at what time/circumstance he would use it, much less at the beginning of the moon.

He wrote the novel and the first serialization. The same novel, it's mentioned he writes narratives

The feats you want are what he's doing, writing the narrative

Third: Anos will not be persistent, he has several skills that can instakill or immobilize Saiki to the point where he can't use anything, like time stop; fear manipulation; erasure of existence; conceptual manipulation/destruction; chain manipulation, paralysis induction and sealing; using magic to hide your existence and become invisible, etc. Unless Saiko uses the ability instantly (which it would be NLF to say he would), he would be quickly caught by Arnos, and Arnos can immobilize or kill him with a spell or two.

Well, as long as it's not in the script Saiki is writing I don't think Anos is going to resist narrative control here.

Unless you can bring me feats of Anos being able to act independently of the narrative

 

[Fixxed]

Because he wrote it like that?

He wrote the novel and the first serialization. The same novel, it's mentioned he writes narratives

The feats you want are what he's doing, writing the narrative

Well, as long as it's not in the script Saiki is writing I don't think Anos is going to resist narrative control here.

Unless you can bring me feats of Anos being able to act independently of the narrative

Can he control the plot??

The reason "he wrote it like that" is contradict with the expression he make in the series. I mean if he doesnt like it that way, he can just rewrite that, but in fact he not because he cant. Bruh he literally cannot control the story of the verse
That argument is tooo far, the interpretation is too far from the feats of the series

 

[Robo432343]

bro...who said aca 4 stops u from getting plot haxed

 

[FeebasExE]

Can he control the plot??

The reason "he wrote it like that" is contradict with the expression he make in the series. I mean if he doesnt like it that way, he can just rewrite that, but in fact he not because he cant. Bruh he literally cannot control the story of the verse
That argument is tooo far, the interpretation is too far from the feats of the series

99% of the times Saiki made accurate assessment of his own powers are valid except that plot one? What's the contradiction?

The feats are the two stories he wrote. By word of mouth from an accurate source, Saiki. Unless the novel is non canon

I'll say this, it's on his profile. Of

If you don't find it accurate, make a thread to remove it. Your argument is basically saying the feat is invalid..

For now it's on his profile that he has plot hax. Saiki serialized two entire stories from beginning to the end. So his control is extensive.

It's time for Anos to counter that with his resistance

 

[Fixxed]

99% of the times Saiki made accurate assessment of his own powers are valid except that plot one? What's the contradiction?

The feats are the two stories he wrote. By word of mouth from an accurate source, Saiki. Unless the novel is non canon

I'll say this, it's on his profile. Of

If you don't find it accurate, make a thread to remove it. Your argument is basically saying the feat is invalid..

For now it's on his profile that he has plot hax. Saiki serialized two entire stories from beginning to the end. So his control is extensive.

It's time for Anos to counter that with his resistance

i dont know bruh, how about because his plot manipulation is too vague, that contradict his own series, but his other ability dont. Just answer this

And i dont know how can saiki have plot manipulation from write his own story, because i watch the anime there are many events that cannot be handled by saiki
He even cannot handle teruhashi kokomi in many event
or handle akechi touma for know his power, he must rewind time again and again but still useless

And i say even if he has plot manipulation his plot manip is very very limited, because he cannot control the plot in his story it self. If he can why do he having trouble or even cannot handle some event in his series???

It's time for Anos to counter that with his resistance

And wy even he must has resistence for not being affect by that???
You the one that must prove if saiki's plot manipulation is affect the abstraction

Plot??? Nah. Plot by it default just affect the physical reality, it not affect the abstraction, need further feats. Just like concept cannot affect information by default, plot cannot affect concept and information by default, because they have different type of abstraction and different function

Arnos body can be plot manipulated, but his root that is abstraction cant

 

[FeebasExE]

I'll have to ask for staff clarification on this.

1. You're arguing the plot hax shouldn't be on his profile, which is a different arguments from Saiki being able to just write the entire script.

"it's limited"

He wrote an entire story. So it's not limited. If he can use it, then Anos isn't killing him unless it's part or the story he's writing.

"He was scared"

Yeah. That's part of the plot(that he wrote) ....... Just as he's planetary and still decides to face some challenges from much weaker beings. That's just how he is.


2. Why would the script writer need feat of interacting with AE when from the entire script, the author is the one who determines what Anos will have to begin with. Basically. Anos can't do AE if AE is not in the script for him to have to begin with.

If it comes to be that I'm wrong. Then Saiki just writes Anos to make dumb decisions and not activate AE at all or use anything, or even kill him.

Conclusion
If Saiki has narrative control over the entire story, then every action and decision Anos makes will play by the rules of the script. If It's not in the script =Anos isn't doing it in the first place.

 

[Robo432343]

does saiki even use plot hax combat wise

 

[Georredannea15]

bro...who said aca 4 stops u from getting plot haxed

Even plot manip is only as much as is shown in the series. If plot cannot affect an aca4 beings in its own series, it is not assumed to affect aca4. DT also supported this.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

does saiki even use plot hax combat wise

Nope

 

[ShionAH]

Well. Intresting match. So what do we do? Incon? Mismatch?

 

[Rendynoc0unter]

following

 

[FeebasExE]

Even plot manip is only as much as is shown in the series.

Saiki wrote two stories.

If plot cannot affect an aca4 beings in its own series, it is not assumed to affect aca4. DT also supported this.

Acausality type 4 can be beaten without having Acausality to begin with so it's questionable that type 4 will resist plot manipulation here.

The main issue with plot hax that will not allow it to interact with others is whether the enemy is in a state of being like Incorporeality or abstract existence, something non physical.

If not, then I'm sorry you're not resisting plot hax here with type 4

 

[SeijiSetto]

Because he wrote it like that?

He wrote the novel and the first serialization. The same novel, it's mentioned he writes narratives

The feats you want are what he's doing, writing the narrative

The fact that Saiki doesn't instantly write every single interaction or battle he has to go his way means he probably won't do it here. He would need feats of actively changing it in a combat-applicable way for it to be something he does in-character, which - as far as I'm aware - he doesn't, meaning he won't here.

Well. Intresting match. So what do we do? Incon? Mismatch?

People need to stop immediately going to vote incon because there is discussion going on. Let things run their course - we have no need to rush.

I think it's a stomp in Anos' favour because Saiki wouldn't use his plothax in character and - in your own words:

If we take the arguement “Plot hax is useless” then Anos stomps
If we take the arguement “Plot hax works” then its either incon or Saiki wins.

Without plothax, Anos just nukes Saiki with multiple magic abilities from his arsenal the moment the fight starts and wins gg.

 

[FeebasExE]

The fact that Saiki doesn't instantly write every single interaction or battle he has to go his way means he probably won't do it here. He would need feats of actively changing it in a combat-applicable way for it to be something he does in-character, which - as far as I'm aware - he doesn't, meaning he won't here.

That's the novel he was in and the manga. It wouldn't exist without him. So yes, he scripted all of it from beginning to the end if this statement has any reliability to go by.

If Anos doesn't have resistance to plot hax, Saiki, the author, isn't going to write it to be his death. Simple as that.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

That's the novel he was in and the manga. It wouldn't exist without him. So yes, he scripted all of it from beginning to the end if this statement has any reliability to go by.

If Anos doesn't have resistance to plot hax, Saiki, the author, isn't going to write it to be his death. Simple as that.

Staff literally states there is a limit to Plot Manipulation hax. You are making it look like it can do anything.

with this question as well at what level is his plot hax atm. since its possible for plot hax to only be 3D for not having proof if being above even time as shown in this profile and argued by DonttalkTD

more arguments on how plot hax without feats of affecting abstracts will only affect the physical aspect of things and cannot be argued to affect abstracts

 

[FeebasExE]

If it comes to be that I'm wrong. Then Saiki just writes Anos to make dumb decisions and not activate AE at all or use anything, or even kill him.

It's a good thing Anos doesn't resist plot manipulation

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

It's a good thing Anos doesn't resist plot manipulation

Where in Anos profile states it needs AE to be activated?

 

[Fixxed]

1. You're arguing the plot hax shouldn't be on his profile, which is a different arguments from Saiki being able to just write the entire script.

"it's limited"

He wrote an entire story. So it's not limited. If he can use it, then Anos isn't killing him unless it's part or the story he's writing.

"He was scared"

Yeah. That's part of the plot(that he wrote) ....... Just as he's planetary and still decides to face some challenges from much weaker beings. That's just how he is.

Imagine, he wrote the entire story but he himself cannot handle many events in the story

Bruh just answer why he cannot stop akechi for know his power, he doesnt like anyone know his power. If he wrote the story he can just wrote akechi forget or never know that he has power, he not need for rewind time again and again. I think you not even watch the anime or read the manga

Why even he wrote the event he hate? Challenges?? Bruh the entire story of this verse is tell about saiki hate his power and want to become normal. So your argument is too far interpretation, that against the context of the verse it self

2. Why would the script writer need feat of interacting with AE when from the entire script, the author is the one who determines what Anos will have to begin with. Basically. Anos can't do AE if AE is not in the script for him to have to begin with.

If it comes to be that I'm wrong. Then Saiki just writes Anos to make dumb decisions and not activate AE at all or use anything, or even kill him.

Conclusion
If Saiki has narrative control over the entire story, then every action and decision Anos makes will play by the rules of the script. If It's not in the script =Anos isn't doing it in the first place.

Plot is has limit, it not omnipotence power, just learn again. Plot by default just control physical reality not abstraction. You has to prove if that plot is affect even the abstraction

"Active AE".... and who tell you arnos' AE is need yo be activated???

 

[ShionAH]

Imagine, he wrote the entire story but he himself cannot handle many events in the story

Bruh just answer why he cannot stop akechi for know his power, he doesnt like anyone know his power. If he wrote the story he can just wrote akechi forget or never know that he has power, he not need for rewind time again and again. I think you not even watch the anime or read the manga

Why even he wrote the event he hate? Challenges?? Bruh the entire story of this verse is tell about saiki hate his power and want to become normal. So your argument is too far interpretation, that against the context of the verse it self

Saiki only wrote some part of his manga and the novel. Not the entirety of his manga iirc so those are not Antifeats

 

[Fixxed]

Saiki only wrote some part of his manga and the novel. Not the entirety of his manga iirc so those are not Antifeats

Can you give me a clear scan that he himself wrote the story and control the story??
Bruh.. the 4th wall breaking things is not new to this series, everyone that watch the anime and read the manga is know that, and that just a gag not to be taken literally

And even if he wrote the story, it still useless because in many events he cant handle his own story or even in the first place he cannot control the story because if he can he will make himself a normal person without power that he always wanted. So his plot manip it very very very limited to the level where it even useless

 

[ShionAH]

Can you give me a clear scan that he himself wrote the story and control the story??

The Profile.

Bruh.. the 4th wall breaking things is not new to this series, everyone that watch the anime and read the manga is know that, and that just a gag not to be taken literally

Writing your entire novel is a gag? So we just gonna downplay every comedy character?

And even if he wrote the story, it still useless because in many events he cant handle his own story or even in the first place he cannot control the story because if he can he will make himself a normal person without power that he always wanted. So his plot manip it very very very limited to the level where it even useless

He doesnt want to lose his powers completely. Did you even read the manga? He literally feels awful after he gets rid of them. I also want to add the part where he loses his power is not written by Saiki. He only wrote the Novel and his first manga before serialization. This is not an anti feat

 

[Tatsumi504]

Well. Intresting match. So what do we do? Incon? Mismatch?

Clearly a mismatch

 

[Fixxed]

The Profile.

Clear scan

Writing your entire novel is a gag? So we just gonna downplay every comedy character?

Different verse different context. Why you take this verse's context and compare it to every verse that have different context???

He doesnt want to lose his powers completely. Did you even read the manga? He literally feels awful after he gets rid of them. I also want to add the part where he loses his power is not written by Saiki. He only wrote the Novel and the Mangas first chapters not the entire thing. This is not an anti feat

What??? He himself want to be a normal in the first place. He feels like that because it new for him
It say first manga not first chapter, and you know what?? Even in the first chapter of manga, he clearly say he hate the power and he already aware if the power is ruined his life, so if he wrote the chapter 1 why he not change that as soon as he aware that will ruined his life??? That clearly mean he cannot control his own story, even if he wrote that. So even if he had plot manipulation it useless

 

[ShionAH]

What??? He himself want to be a normal in the first place. He feels like that because it new for him

You are wrong, he hates his powers but when they are gone he realizes how much he likes them. Thats the entire point of his character.

 

[Fixxed]

You are wrong, he hates his powers but when they are gone he realizes how much he likes them. Thats the entire point of his character.

Okay, let we take it like what you intepret it
The question is just same, why he in the first place or in first chapter not erase his power if he hate that??? This is not the time that he aware that he like his power or blablabla, he clearly hate it in this. So if he wrote and control the story he just can easily erase his power or make himself not too powerfull. It clearly mean he cannot control the plot

Even in the first chapter of manga, he clearly say he hate the power and he already aware if the power is ruined his life, so if he wrote the chapter 1 why he not change that as soon as he aware that will ruined his life??? That clearly mean he cannot control his own story, even if he wrote that. So even if he had plot manipulation it useless

 

[ShionAH]

Okay, let we take it like what you intepret it
The question is just same, why he in the first place or in first chapter not erase his power if he hate that??? This is not the time that he aware that he like his power or blablabla, he clearly hate it in this. So if he wrote and control the story he just can easily erase his power or make himself not too powerfull. It clearly mean he cannot control the plot

We dont know. You are making that up, we dont know if his powers are too strong for that since they came back even after they were nulled + he wrote manga before serilization

Its probably PIS.

 

[Godsatoshi23]

It's a stomp in Anos favour because from what I seen here Saiki can't use his plot hax as offensive and not shown a feat that his plot hax working on AE either.

So, my vote is for Anos.

 

[ShionAH]

It's a stomp in Anos favour because from what I seen here Saiki can't use his plot hax as offensive and not shown a feat that his plot hax working on AE either.

So, my vote is for Anos.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Plot hax gg
(I have given absolutely no thoughts to this decision)

 

[Orioreeem]

Anos can't do AE if AE is not in the script for him to have to begin with.

AE is his source and he can do magic just from it. Plot hax wouldn't be able to affect it and neither would precog, so Saiki would basically not know things that Anos does with his source

 

[Edutyn]

I will respond when I get home

 

[ShionAH]

This is a mismatch since we have no idea how Plot hax would affect Anos I will ask someone to close this