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Battle of the plot manipulators: Altair (Re:Creators) vs Sonic the Hedgehog (Archie Comics)

ElixirBlue said:
So, what are currently arguments?

Sonic likely to use BFR against opponents he can’t beat with H2H and Altair doesn’t resist the FateHax
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Given the match, this is a stomp due to speed unequal (Rel vs MFTL+). If you make it speed equalized, Altair resists Fatehax on a 2-B scale due to having Acausality and can either Info Hax Sonic, Erase him from the narrative, Conceptually become Sonic via 66th Movement, Copy Sonic's power, or even Clone a duplicate Sonic to fight the Original Sonic for her, Fate and Probability Hax him or even make it so that the damage taken from his attacks get reflected back at him via Causality Manip. However, there's a ton of stuff missing on her profiles which I cannot use here to argue. So even if this match gets added to either of their profiles, it'll get removed once the upgrades get accepted.
 
GlaceonGamez471 said:
Not gonna comment on the rest, but Sonic's fatehax works on type 4 acausality
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I am well aware of that and doesn't that Fatehax comes from him Absorbing Chaos Energy which is a Low 1-C Smurf power source? So I don't see any wincon for Altair if that is the case as Sonic will likely blitz and BFR her away on a 2-A range while she is too slow to react or do anything or come back from a 2-A range bfr. Even in Speed Equal her haxes likely won't work due to his fatehax and thus he can BFR her away.

I want to point out that Altair's fatehax works on Type 4 Acausals too and she resists Fatehax that works on Type 4 Acausals as the Creators who can bind the Creations into Fate (despite them transcending fate and causality), could not do so with Altair. But as I said, Altair's profile is heavily outdated with this stuff are not even there to begin with, so I cannot use them to argue.
 
ElixirBlue said:
She doesn’t have incaps?
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Her incap options are either resisted or gets bypassed by Sonic. In character, her first moves are basically existence erasure or conceptually attacking her target both of which get blocked by his fate hax. At best she incon sonic by continuously cloning and sending multiple sonic clones to fight for her. This is assuming speed is equal otherwise it's a stomp for Sonic. I cannot even argue for things that are not in her profile since it's very outdated and otherwise would likely give her Smurfy hax of her own and many other stuffs for incap.
 
RM97 said:
Her incap options are either resisted or gets bypassed by Sonic. In character, her first moves are basically existence erasure or conceptually attacking her target both of which get blocked by his fate hax. At best she incon sonic by continuously cloning and sending multiple sonic clones to fight for her. This is assuming speed is equal otherwise it's a stomp for Sonic. I cannot even argue for things that are not in her profile since it's very outdated and otherwise would likely give her Smurfy hax of her own and many other stuffs for incap.
Click to expand...

i can speed equalize it if you want.
 
ElixirBlue said:
Due they al have the same AP as the original?
Click to expand...
Yes and same powers too as shown when she copied Kanoya's Gigas Machina where the copy was able to physically match the original one leading to a slatemate. She can make multiple copies at once as shown in her music video.
 
RM97 said:
Yes and same powers too as shown when she copied Kanoya's Gigas Machina where the copy was able to physically match the original one leading to a slatemate. She can make multiple copies at once as shown in her music video.
Click to expand...

can we make this inconclusive
 
RM97 said:
Her incap options are either resisted or gets bypassed by Sonic. In character, her first moves are basically existence erasure or conceptually attacking her target both of which get blocked by his fate hax. At best she incon sonic by continuously cloning and sending multiple sonic clones to fight for her. This is assuming speed is equal otherwise it's a stomp for Sonic.
Click to expand...
.
 
RM97 said:
  1. First of all, there are no Fictional Characters in the verse. To the people of the Real World they might be considered Fictional but not in the sense that we understand a fictional character to be aka 2D. These fictional characters like Selesia, Meteora, Yuya, etc. are outright stated to come from "Outside the World" and the next few episodes of the series were entirely spent on Meteora explaining and info-dumping on how the worlds are formed from the manifestations of possibilities and how they exist independently of the real world without any causal relation as well as connection to the timeline of the Real World. There is also the guidebook specifically stating twice how Selesia's World is "Another World" instead of calling it some fictional universe or story world. There is also the fact that both Sota and Nakanogane, humans from the Real World, could easily exist in those Universes. Tl;dr, those are not fictional verses or 2D characters but rather Alternate Universes existing outside/parallel to the real world.
  2. But let's say for argument's sake that they are indeed fictional characters coming from fictional verses just to give you the benefit of the doubt. The very first episode had Altair teleporting Sota back and forth between the Real World and the world of Selesia until both he and Selesia were transported back to the Real World. Even in Episode 5, she does the same when she warped Nakanogane and his house so that they can exist in Kanoya's story. So yeah her hax affected them and even going by your headcanon logic, Altair can make the existence of these 3D humans into fictional or 2D. And just to show how the argument of "she never affected a Real Human" is moot, you have Magane who has three onscreen feats of affecting humans including the famous Bookstore scene where she made the guy under her spell deny her statement (highlighted by the white aura engulfing those two) thereby allowing her to summon a Lovecraftian Horror from the Cthulu Mythos book. This is not even taking into account the Magane Spinoff canon manga where she outright affects humans and even ghosts in the Real World. So as you can see, even a random occult "fictional character" could affect Real Humans with her Magic/Causality Hax in the Real World.
  3. Now you might argue that her Teleportation hax is not the same as her plot hax. Anyone who has watched the series knows that her entire hax arsenal aka her Holopiscon is plot hax itself. The way it is written in the profile might seem misleading but in actuality, she simply views everything as part of the Plot and hence the whole "Capable of breaking free of a plot, revising aspects of a plot, or even erasing a plot element outright". It is not a separate ability but rather the only ability she has with Versatile applications such as the different movements of Holopiscon. You might even argue as to how she never plot-haxxed anyone in the series. Lol, why would she need to? Her goal from the very beginning was to destroy the whole world along with all the storyworlds, instead of targeting people or any specific individual. Anyone who has seen the series knows that.
So yeah the bottomline is, people should not argue about characters or verses that they have no knowledge about. Otherwise, it perpetuates misinformation or false ideas (Such as the infamous Elder God Demonbane). Edit: This may sound rude but it is what it is. People need to research more on said verses and characters instead of arguing things that are not even shown in a series.

As for this match-up, Altair's profile is heavily outdated missing stuffs while having dumb things like the 2-B Type 8 Immortality. I might do a CRT later but I'm waiting for the rest of the Light Novel and Guidebook scans for her. So as it stands, maybe Sonic can reality warp her away or something? IDK
Click to expand...
Teezar said:
2 words,no feat.
Click to expand...
 
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