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Battle of Monstrosity Incarnation! Nightmare Luffy vs Carnage Kabuto!

You should use the current profile because that one is getting erased soon.

Okay, now to the fight:

AP: Luffy scales in Base to 343 Kilotons from Zoro and Sanji, and Nightmare Luffy is greatly above that. So high that he can stomp Oars who's able to match and virtually stomp those two previous mentioned. The only reason why they were able to pose a fight was the teamwork because even Zoro who's able to damage Oars to an extent was ultimately no match for him. On top of that, the 343 KT feat happened when they were exhausted and severely weakened so:

Nightmare Luffy >>> Oars >> Zoro >>> Weakened Zoro > 343 Kilotons.

Range: Luffy wins no matter what.

Skill: Luffy. There's no discussion. Even if Kabuto can keep up with people like Darkshine, he's nowhere near as skilled in CQC as Luffy is considering the great amount of feats he has.

Stamina: Nightmare Luffy lasts for only ten minutes so Kabuto has this. Is Luffy allowed to keep fighting in Base/Gears if Nightmare form is out?

On top of that, Luffy has resistance to blunt force, which is Kabuto's thing. He has no claws IIRC.

IDK the food chain for Kabuto since IDK where Darkshine's on it but if there's not as great or has no great feat (since Suiryu's is baseline) then I think Luffy stomps and while as not thematic, you would need to put another High 7-C for this fight.
 
Yeah, 15 minutes for someone who's comparable to him. Again, what's the scaling chain for Kabuto? Because AFAIK the highest calc was mine with 150 Kilotons, while OP has a feat way higher than that.

If OPM characters scales to Suiryu then Luffy punches rag-dolls Kabuto. Simple as that.
 
I might change the combatant for Nightmare Luffy but I need to find one at least comparable to Nightmare.
 
Uh... well I still think NL doesn't need it since the way I see it he basically wins with sheer AP alone.
 
Bump. I'll change the topic for the current Luffy's profile. I'll request the deletion of some olds profiles.
 
Kabuto easy.

That Luffy is below Asgard Moria who is Town lvl+, should be above Kabuto in this and in speed too. But that doesn¡t matter cause Carnage Kabuto should be more durable than beings like VaccineMan (Small City lvl) and he has no time limit like Luffy (in his second form yes, but it's a week so doesnt matter). Luffy is exhausted after using that form, he can't move and only can wait for his death after his "transformation".
 
Eh no.

This Luffy is at least High 7-C.

There's nothing connecting Kabuto to Vaccine Man (if you think so, CRT is a must).

Moriah's AP is 7-C+. His Durability is at least High 7-C for barely tanking a punch to the face from this very same Luffy.

Nothing you've said brings something new to the table since it's mostly incorrect, non-proven or already stablished.
 
> Nothing you've said brings something new to the table since it's mostly incorrect, non-proven or already stablished.

Sure bro. Whatever you established here with a set of people doesnt mean that those things are true. In the content revision in OP posts I saw crap like Fujitora at Doflamingo lvl lol. So yeah, I dont care about what is here established (Bleach MultiContinental, xddd, another example).

I read OP and I know very well the verse. I have my opinion and arguments for it.

High 7 C is Large Town? No, that Luffy doesnt have any feat Large Town lvl prets. Moria is Town+ with his punch and Luffy NM is below. With a Gomu Storm maybe.

Dont know what's the point about Moria durability here.

The three great monsters (Beefcake, VaccineMan, Kabuto) are monsters around the "same tier". They are existences that need Saitama to take action.
 
>Arguing that Pre TS OP verse has something to do with Post TS OP

Okay.

>Putting Bleach into the discussion without reasons

Okay.

>Nightmare Luffy doesn't have feats in the High 7-C

No, just stomping Oars who's able to damage Zoro and Sanji who both tanked a 343 Kilotons blast while heavily injured and tired. That's absolutely 8-B, m8.

Moriah's Durability scales to a NL's single punch. His AP is lower than his Dura.

>Kabuto is comparable to Vaccine Man

Go make a CRT. Kabuto is 7-B in his base form. That's far bigger than anything Kabuto has ever done or any scaling he has backing him up.

Try again.
 
Suiryu is a tiny bit above baseline with his feat - lets say baseline for sake of argument. Choze is pretty much Suiryu's equal.

A Dragon level threat should be far superior to Choze, given the sheer difference between Bakuzan and monster Choze.

Metal Bat has been stated, by himself and by WoG, to be able to defeat Dragon level threats. Garou made Metal Bat bleed with his attacks, whos durability should be somewhat comparable to his striking strength (and he's been hit by dragon threats before)

A far stronger Garou got pummeled by Bug God (this was just before half-monster Garou)

Bug God got one-shot by Darkshine, who may not have even been using his full power.

Darkshine fought Carnage Kabuto for 15 minutes, stating that he went all out.

TL;DR: Baseline <= Suiryu = Choze <<< Dragon level threats < Metal Bat >= Garou <<< Garou (during his MA test) => Bug God <<<<< Darkshine << Full Power Darkshine = Carnage Kabuto
 
So there's no higher feat. Said scaling should make Kabuto at most comparable to Oars and that's a stretch tbf.
 
Kabuto may or may not be getting upgraded to Low 7-B. But until then, the scaling's all he has
 
">Arguing that Pre TS OP verse has something to do with Post TS OP

Okay."

Dont know what are you talking about.


">Putting Bleach into the discussion without reasons

Okay."

It was an example to show my point, that whatever is established here may be an absolute crap.


" No, just stomping Oars who's able to damage Zoro and Sanji who both tanked a 343 Kilotons blast while heavily injured and tired. That's absolutely 8-B, m8. "

Dont know from what is that (probably Enel's Thor), but I dont care, calcs are only a reference, it's nothing absolute, Enel is Town lvl with Sango. Nor Zoro nor Sanji tanked that.


" Moriah's Durability scales to a NL's single punch. His AP is lower than his Dura. "

That's Base Moria and he tanks all Gomu Gomu Storm and got up a few minutes only later. And we saw that in MF he tanked several Pacifistas, who can harm themselves pretty much, so no, Moria is much more durable than a shitty punch from Luffy NL.

And no again for the AP point, we saw how he pierce through Oars Jr with his shadow technique, that's above Pacifista's durability/ap even if Oars Jr. was weakened (Pacifista durability/ap > Luffy NL's punch).


" Go make a CRT. Kabuto is 7-B in his base form. That's far bigger than anything Kabuto has ever done or any scaling he has backing him up. "

Dont know what is a CRT. Like I said, when Saitama takes action is because the monster is a serious deal and the first three "bosses" were introduced almost consecutively. Kabuto was a monster created by a super scientist (Beefcake was a creation from a less impressive guy, and King is known as strongest on Earth because the defeat of Beefcake for example, and other monsters).
 
In the content revision in OP posts I saw crap like Fujitora at Doflamingo lvl lol
This case is something that belongs to the Post TS not Pre TS revision. The latter is pretty much concluded and except for some characters that need a re-scaling coming from a recalced feats, the rest is good.

It was an example to show my point, that whatever is established here may be an absolute crap.
This divert the attention from the main focus of the thread which is OP vs OPM, Bleach has nothing to do. Got an argument about Bleach's status here? This isn't the place to discuss it.

Dont know from what is that (probably Enel's Thor), but I dont care, calcs are only a reference, it's nothing absolute, Enel is Town lvl with Sango. Nor Zoro nor Sanji tanked that.
Numbers > Scaling chain.

No, 343 Kilotons is from this

BTW, Sanji barely tanked an El Thor while Zoro tanked an attack stronger than that considering Enel needs a little "ritual" to use it.

That's Base Moria and he tanks all Gomu Gomu Storm and got up a few minutes only later. And we saw that in MF he tanked several Pacifistas, who can harm themselves pretty much, so no, Moria is much more durable than a shitty punch from Luffy NL.
Right, thanks. Would you show me the scans where Moriah tanked the Pacifistas please? It'd be great to upgrade his Durability in a CRT.

Moriah was knocked out by Luffy's attacks while in NL. We only have seen one punch landing at his face and then he's lights off. Minutes after he wake up but that's unquantifiable. His Durability is far above the 343 Kilotons but his AP is very much lower considering he has no feats of harming High 7-C at this point.

And no again for the AP point, we saw how he pierce through Oars Jr with his shadow technique, that's above Pacifista's durability/ap even if Oars Jr. was weakened (Pacifista durability/ap > Luffy NL's punch).
Oars Jr. has like zero feats of harming relevant characters. I'd consider him even weaker than TB Zoro and Sanji because A)the Ursus Shock Kuma used against him is IMO weaker and B)he was WAY more injured from that than Zoro, Sanji and Brook who resisted in a very poor state while Oars was fresh and barely harmed by little cannonballs.

Dont know what is a CRT. Like I said, when Saitama takes action is because the monster is a serious deal and the first three "bosses" were introduced almost consecutively. Kabuto was a monster created by a super scientist (Beefcake was a creation from a less impressive guy, and King is known as strongest on Earth because the defeat of Beefcake for example, and other monsters).
Content Revision Thread.

Being introduced consecutively has nothing to do with upscaling progress. Saitama isn't reliable for scaling purposes and the monsters are only scaled by feats and statements.

You're saying nothing at this point.
 
> This case is something that belongs to the Post TS not Pre TS revision. The latter is pretty much concluded and except for some characters that need a re-scaling coming from a recalced feats, the rest is good.

Emm, in this versus that's irrelevant. I was talking about the thing of "here things are established".


> This divert the attention from the main focus of the thread which is OP vs OPM, Bleach has nothing to do. Got an argument about Bleach's status here? This isn't the place to discuss it.

Again? Like I said is an example to prove that the things established here may be wrong, that's all.


> Numbers > Scaling chain.

No, 343 Kilotons is from this

BTW, Sanji barely tanked an El Thor while Zoro tanked an attack stronger than that considering Enel needs a little "ritual" to use it.

Manga > numbers

And that's an outlier. 2 direct hits from Oars are enough to knock out Zoro. Ursus Shock >>> Oars, even if it was controlled by Kuma to not kill them. The Ursus Shock was enough to shake the island and move a large area/mass of water. That and Moria Shadows Asgard punch are above Oars, so yeah, outlier.


> Right, thanks. Would you show me the scans where Moriah tanked the Pacifistas please? It'd be great to upgrade his Durability in a CRT.

1

> Moriah was knocked out by Luffy's attacks while in NL. We only have seen one punch landing at his face and then he's lights off. Minutes after he wake up but that's unquantifiable. His Durability is far above the 343 Kilotons but his AP is very much lower considering he has no feats of harming High 7-C at this point.

You dont know if Moria was knocked out by the punch, it wasn't showed. And how the secuence was, the answer is no, because when Luffy used Gomu Storm, Moria was showed again while he had been receiving the hits.

He pierced Oars Jr. like I said. One of the most powerful giants in Marine army clashed with Vista 1 (who clashed with a serious Mihawk, who with a casual slash cut a 5 km length ice wave and 1-2 km high with a casual slash and from several kms away, ice tougher than steel) and Oars Jr is above ViceAdmirals (that giant is a ViceAdmiral). So no, Moria's AP > durability. He didnt kill Luffy because he needed his shadow (Luffy dead = no shadow) and he only wanted to drag time until the sun sets up.


> Oars Jr. has like zero feats of harming relevant characters. I'd consider him even weaker than TB Zoro and Sanji because A)the Ursus Shock Kuma used against him is IMO weaker and B)he was WAY more injured from that than Zoro, Sanji and Brook who resisted in a very poor state while Oars was fresh and barely harmed by little cannonballs.

No lol, what are you talking about? Even without a quantificable feat, he is above Viceadmirals who are way above Pacifistas which are equal to Mugiwaras (1 Pacifista = Mugiwaras whole crew). And I posted his relevant feat above.

And no lol, the Ursus Shock from Kuma was way way way above the one in Thriller Bark.

> Being introduced consecutively has nothing to do with upscaling progress. Saitama isn't reliable for scaling purposes and the monsters are only scaled by feats and statements.

And context.
 
"Emm, in this versus that's irrelevant. I was talking about the thing of "here things are established"."

Which is irrelevant as you said and still you brought it like it has something to do with this.

My god you're claiming this amount of nonsense it's hurting my brain.

"Manga > numbers

And that's an outlier. 2 direct hits from Oars are enough to knock out Zoro. Ursus Shock >>> Oars, even if it was controlled by Kuma to not kill them. The Ursus Shock was enough to shake the island and move a large area/mass of water. That and Moria Shadows Asgard punch are above Oars, so yeah, outlier."

Oh, and what does the manga says?

Yeah, sure. 343 Kilotons three arcs after Enel's attack which is 65 Kilotons is an outlier. Good job.

The Ursus Shock was tanked by Zoro, Sanji and Brook while tired and wounded. It's not something that knocked them down being totally fresh. If you read my scaling chain above, you'll see that I covered Oars being stronger than the Ursus Shock because he can harm the Strawhats as well.

Thanks, now I have a good justification for Moriah's Durability being far above what I thought.

"You dont know if Moria was knocked out by the punch, it wasn't showed. And how the secuence was, the answer is no, because when Luffy used Gomu Storm, Moria was showed again while he had been receiving the hits.

He pierced Oars Jr. like I said. One of the most powerful giants in Marine army clashed with Vista 1 (who clashed with a serious Mihawk, who with a casual slash cut a 5 km length ice wave and 1-2 km high with a casual slash and from several kms away, ice tougher than steel) and Oars Jr is above ViceAdmirals (that giant is a ViceAdmiral). So no, Moria's AP > durability. He didnt kill Luffy because he needed his shadow (Luffy dead = no shadow) and he only wanted to drag time until the sun sets up."

You don't know if Moriah tanked the laser beam, it wasn't showed. When Luffy used GGNS Moriah was receiving the punches with blank eyes, suggesting that he was unconscious.

Who's this "one of the most powerful giants in Marine" you're talking about?

>Ice tougher than steel

Based on...?

Viceadmirals varies in power. Oars Jr. stomping some nameless giant characters means nothing if we don't have proof of their feats and you claiming that X did something to Y without providing scans isn't helping your case.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that an enraged Moriah would care about waiting until the sun rises even if he's screaming like a maniac that he'll crush Luffy. He lost Luffy's shadow at that point and he didn't even bypassed Luffy's resistance like other characters like Lucci did. The only way he could harm Luffy is piercing his skin.

"No lol, what are you talking about? Even without a quantificable feat, he is above Viceadmirals who are way above Pacifistas which are equal to Mugiwaras (1 Pacifista = Mugiwaras whole crew). And I posted his relevant feat above."

Sadly, as I said above, Viceadmirals varies in power. Otherwise we'd scale Smoker to Garp or viceversa.

"And no lol, the Ursus Shock from Kuma was way way way above the one in Thriller Bark."

Proof.
 
ZackMoon1234 said:
What is the vote count
Click to expand...
Let us see:

Nightmare Luffy: (Calaca Vs, Js250476, ZackMoon1234, Plum Crayfish376, Rei Rubro) - 5

Carnage Kabuto: (Ronnijuro, Ryope) - 2
 
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