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Battle of Century: Speedwagon vs Goomba

I'd say that Goomba probably has this due to just being able to get out of range of what Speed wagon can throw at him, or that's what I'm assuming, and that goomba shoe it has is going to be a big nuisance to the guy. So, I give it to Goomba.
 
Goomba via flight, not much else to say. Speedwagon seems like a man with no Stand, so... yeah.
 
It seems like nobody read Speedwagon's equipment. He carries his bladed hat, a throwing weapon that can be used at a distance?

Considering Goomba's wings gets clipped by literally any sort of damage, and Speedwagons hat has cut through 8-C Jonathan's arm straight to the bone, I think it's reasonable to assume he can use it to clip Goomba's wings and then proceed to stomp him. There's no risk for Speedwagon considering they're the same speed.

I vote Robert.
 
Even with that equipment, not as versatile as Goomba, and... what? Why is that common knowledge lol? Shear force calcs are a thing, we can calc the strength of pretty much anything on this site, why would a pointy weapon be superior to its given tier?
 
I think he means piercing damage; that's why bullets and blades can still hurt 9-B animals, for example, they're not hitting, they're cutting through.
 
Ah. Well, a 9-C weapon can harm a 9-B, just at a slower rate. Especially when hitting some special nerve or organ. But... no, weapons are pretty accurately where they are. If the page is 9-B, then it would be 9-B. A CRT can be made if you like.
 
Shooting a bullet can have about as much force as a punch.

I don't need to tell you which one is 10-B and which one is 9-B, do I?

Goomba is the opposite of versatile. He has little to no intelligence, he can't turn around very quickly and he lacks any limbs for any sort of range. Speedwagon jumps on it and Goomba dies.
 
Yes, exactly. They are capable of hurting 9-Cs just fine, so we rate them at that. If the hat can hurt a 8-C, then it needs to be rated that, because each fiction has it rules and most ignore this
 
Here is the scene:

Speedwagon manages to slice through an 8-C's arm straight to the bone while using his hat. Furthermore, he also dodges the Hypersonic+ knife moving towards him.

There's no CRT needed if I am providing you the explicit evidence. This is an open and shut case, Speedwagons hat can cut way above its tier.
 
In fact, this comes straight from site rules:

  • Basically, we are well aware of that not all profiles are reliable, as it is an impossible task for so many characters from wildly different franchises. However, we consider everything a work in progress, and have worked extremely hard to manage, and gradually improve, the wiki as well as we are able under the circumstances. The quality would have been enormously worse if the staff had not devoted so much of their time and energy.
 
Goomba is baseline wall level rigth?Speedwagon can kill fodder zombies who pack a punch with 0.32 tons of TNT worth of force,now look at the difference between 0.0005 tons and 0.32 tons and also the fact that he is more intelligent,has better experience and equipment he can just bitch slap him and make him explode.
 
but nooo "the rules of the wiki litiraly say that it needs to be on the page"

I'm still waiting for the apparent rule, @Ricsi
 
okay, few things to address here.

1. What bullet feels like a punch? Aside from a few of the weaker firearms I've seen, that is far from true. Additionally, very few guns are 9-B (snipers and the like, mostly). Most reside on the lower bounds of 9-C.

2. Yes. A CRT can be made, I don't get why you have an issue with using the information that is verified by the wiki. Provide evidence in said CRT and he can be 8-C with that, and then it gets immediately restricted in the fight due to stompage. That's how it works.

3. Goomba is not baseline wall level. And where does your assumtpion for Speedwagon's strength come from, coz that's not 9-B, that's 9-A (0.25 tons and above). Goomba's AP comes from 3 calcs I did a long while back as a favor to Imaginym. This calc allows Goomba to scale to 8.48e6 Joules. That's well into Wall level. Goomba may scale to Koopa, who survived a small tsunami wave that ranked at a higher AP.

4. @Professor Should I get an admin to explain how this whole versus debating thing works? Basically, the rule is in place so even people who aren't familiar with the verse are able to have a good idea on how it works. Hence why updating profiles is so bloody important here, it is to make sure that each character is understood to the point where someone with little to no knowledge of JoJo's can make a case for/against it by reading the profile, which would optimally provide all relevant information.

Hell, you probably wouldn't even need a CRT for such a minor thing, just go to a JoJo-supporting admin and show them your evidence, I don't doubt it is viable, just that, if it is, it needs to be restricted for this fight to happen fairly. 8-C vs 9-B is a stomp, no offense meant.

Also, as a final note, can I see a calc for Speedwagon's AP, if such a thing exists? Otherwise, he would be considered baseline 9-B.
 
I have an issue with making a CRT because you guys are acting like "hurr hurr there goes his argument". If I provide you the example of his hat harming an 8-C fighter there should be no problem. This is fundementals. Just because we missed or forgot something on his profile doesn't mean he doesn't have the ability. But because your argument is still flawed, I will concede and give in to the suggestion that this scene never happened.

Speedwagon has a 46kg tnt feat, actually. He killed one of those guys. Goomba's 8.48e6 joules feat is only 2kg tnt. The difference in their attack potency is well beyond one-shot range. Speedwagon kicks the goomba and it dies.

Yes please go bring in an admin to explain how this works. You are refusing blantant evidence and feats just because it is missing from his profile. I shouldn't have to explain how dumb that is.
 
As I said, 9-C can harm 9-B. But if you take a pistol to fight a lion, not gonna do so well. To hunt a lion, one normally equips a high powered rifle which would be bordering on 9-B anyways, if not flat out in the tier.
 
Also, Professor, you are literally the only one trying the whole "hurr durr there goes his argument" with constantly claiming to debunk things. CRTs are just a rule of the thing, if that weapon is 8-C, it should be restricted for making this a stomp, that's just how it works.

And, if it IS 8-C, and thus he loses it due to stompage... he doesn't have the range for fighting Goomba who can fly.
 
Yeah, that's the point, pistols aren't 9-B, but they can harm 9-Bs, in the same way Speedwagon's hat can harm a 8-C Jonathan without being 8-C, because it's piercing, that doesn't mean he will one-shot a 9-B.
 
@Paulo, that is a very arbitrary method of thinking. You're looking at the real world in the view of a VS Debater. A pistol deals some thousands of joules of energy. Those thousands of joules can harm a 9-B in the same way that a soft punch with 10-C power behind it (say, 40 Joules) can harm a 10-A feasibly. hell, if I pinched a 10-A, weak as I am, he'd still be hurt from it.

TL;DR, tiers only apply here, and they are used liberally to define power levels when a tier lower or two (depending on the size of the tier) can harm tiers above it. It isn't as two-dimensional as you present it.

@Lord I'll go get an admin to explain this to you.
 
Yes you can. it happens literally all of the time to make a matchup more fair for both combatants.
 
No, that's restricting a character's form, such as using Goku from an earlier incarnation.

You cannot restrict abilities, and I believe you cannot restrict weaponry as well, though I may be wrong on that last one.
 
Ask any staff member. This stuff happens, again, pretty commonly. It may not occur much for JoJo's characters, since you seem solely interested in defending said pages despite all the facts, but it is something that occurs.
 
I've shown you evidence against the contrary, that I do not need a CRT for a literal feat. You said you would get an admin but I do not see one as of yet.
 
That's the one flaw the tiering system has, it can't take piercing damage into account, because of the small surface area they take; it doesn't have to damage the entire body, just a small piece of it, which is not as durable as the entire body, that's why you need less energy to cut or pierce something than you need to actually break that thing by punching.

That's why Speedwagon doesn't need to be as strong as Jonathan to scratch his arm, being 8-C doesn't make Jonathan cutproof, and while Speedwagon did take a hit to the face from Jonathan, Jonathan was holding back heavily and purposefully trying not to kill him (that's the entire point of the fight, Speedwagon noticed he was going easy on him and decided to help him); I really don't see 8-C Speedwagon happening.
 
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