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Battle for the 4th Strongest 2-A: The Embryo vs. The Creator

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Ben CleverName said:
There are literally hundreds of passives scaling from much lower bosses (who draw power from Bartleby) and Dispel All yeets all of them. Also I'd much rather go through the important parts about those passives rather than it just being "60+" with no context. I'm sure they're somewhere on the profiles but I've looked up the Black Beast and I've found nothing that isn't already in Wizard101
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Sorry but my spider sense of doubt can't ignore this claim, so there is evidence of that?
 
The Causality said:
Ben CleverName said:
There are literally hundreds of passives scaling from much lower bosses (who draw power from Bartleby) and Dispel All yeets all of them. Also I'd much rather go through the important parts about those passives rather than it just being "60+" with no context. I'm sure they're somewhere on the profiles but I've looked up the Black Beast and I've found nothing that isn't already in Wizard101
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Sorry but my spider sense of doubt can't ignore this claim, so there is evidence of that?
Click to expand...
Like I said before, it's through scaling. There aren't any individual bosses with hundreds of passives but seeing as how all of them scale to Bartleby because they draw power from him it's easy to conclude that.

Either way I'd hold off on using the Creator for this for now. We're planning on CRTing him into Low 1-C since his higher-dimensional existence is above Bartleby, Raven and Spider, who are all listed at 4D.
 
Ben CleverName said:
Like I said before, it's through scaling. There aren't any individual bosses with hundreds of passives but seeing as how all of them scale to Bartleby because they draw power from him it's easy to conclude that.
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Hm. You can't really scale passive abilities with that logic, "draw power from him" isn't enough since they have their own way of using them, plus the fact that we didn't even know how the creator fight/use his power, it's more speculation than anything imo.
 
Even if you choose not to scale bosses casting spells passively to Bartleby you can still scale the spells themselves to Bartleby, which gives him plenty of passives such as -100% damage, healing and accuracy debuffs, heals, shields, dispels, etc.
 
which the Embryo can negate/resist on a very high level. I don't see anything on Bartleby's profile that doesn't stop Embryo from existing.
 
and again, Embryo resists everything that Bartleby has. You're not gonna affect the Embryo unless you can negate resistances on Blazblue's level.
 
Theglassman12 said:
and again, Embryo resists everything that Bartleby has. You're not gonna affect the Embryo unless you can negate resistances on Blazblue's level.
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It's literally -100%. It doesn't care about how strong the attack is and it's been shown to work on other 2-A beings to begin with. Beings which threatened to destroy all of existence even beyond the Spiral.
 
Ok and it affecting other 2-A beings doesn't mean shit to a character that resists everything that's worth a damn that any of the Wizard gods have. Did you bother to read the profile for the Embryo?
 
Theglassman12 said:
Ok and it affecting other 2-A beings doesn't mean shit to a character that resists everything that's worth a damn that any of the Wizard gods have. Did you bother to read the profile for the Embryo?
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Yes, I've read the profile, that's how I'm confident about my answer here.

Also, as I said before, there are literally spells in the game which say "no" to negation and power nullification even in passive states. Are you going to say that Embryo's power is going to work on something that's literally designed to bypass it?
 
I doubt that cause Embryo resists virtually every form of hax that's worth a damn beyond 2-A level.

the same Embryo that has all of these powers that can be activated by existing, and resist power nullification on a massive level. Yes I believe it will work because it sounds like a NLF to tell me that all of these powers by existing and is beyond the wizard god's potential (also the fact that none of the gods remotely resist all of these hax) is just gonna be negated.
 
Wizard101 has an equivalent to literally every power on both of those profiles. Do you want me to list all of them? Because I will, although it's lengthy.
 
Sure, and again it barely changes anything when the Embryo resists like everything on a 2-A level
 
How can you say it barely changes anything when I literally said "Wizard101 has an equivalent to literally every power on both of those profiles"? The whole point of me bringing it up was to explain again that it's not anything new to Bartleby. Dispel All does as its name suggest and dispels every ability associated with magic in the game, passive or otherwise. Bartleby uses this passively. Even without Dispel All, Bartleby resists everything from Wizard101 on a 2-A scale as well.

I'll get to the compare & contrast stuff later but when literally all of your responses are just "He resists" this debate starts to lose its value. I could easily argue the same for Bartleby.
 
Before I say anything this has been changed to The Creator guys.

The Creator by himself anyway is infinitely above or beyond the comprehension of Bartleby and co, so he is at a far higher level of 2-A.

Not only that I've been working on a blog for a higher level 2-A wiz anyway. Essentially an endless cycle of infinite universes being created as sets, bringing forth infinite sets of an infinite multiverses.

The Creator resists everything in Wizard101 on a 2-A level, and is at a level those characters cannot comprehend. Glassman, your argument is legit telling me nothing. Name specific abilities. Otherwise we can just slap "well, Bartleby has over 100 passives!" and call it a day.

Bartleby's win condition here is just overpowering with a Debiltate, nullifying all damage done by 100% and singing The Titanic Lullaby or simply just sealing em away in 6 chains of infinite magic each, to which even characters such as Spider couldn't escape

Just VC me on discord.
 
@Ben his list of resistance on his profile tells me otherwise on him resisting everything. Also BlazBlue's 2-A hax is far beyond normal 2-A levels. Merely having just normal 2-A hax resistance is not enough when they gave

you do know there's a reason why I said that he resists that right? It's because Dispel all will not work. That's just categorized under power nullification, which is something every single character in BlazBlue that's worth a damn resists on a high end 2-A level.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Ben his list of resistance on his profile tells me otherwise on him resisting everything. Also BlazBlue's 2-A hax is far beyond normal 2-A levels. Merely having just normal 2-A hax resistance is not enough when they gave
you do know there's a reason why I said that he resists that right? It's because Dispel all will not work. That's just categorized under power nullification, which is something every single character in BlazBlue that's worth a damn resists on a high end 2-A level.
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Do you not understand why we're calling it a pointless NLF?

2-A itself literally describes infinite universes. It doesn't matter if you say infinity * 3 or infinity ^ infinity because it's still the same value either way. Honestly it's pretty silly how people treat infinity ^ infinity as something special despite saying "infinity * 3 is still infinity".

Bartleby's hax is already confirmed to work on beings who resist them on 2-A levels as well such as the Aethyr Titan and the Divine Paradox. WoG literally said "Even with Bartleby's intervention, I think Raven would've dealt with you faster than a Thanos finger snap. which confirms that Raven stomps the Divine Paradox (2-A), who himself stomped the Aethyr Titan (2-A) who himself scales above the other Titans (2-A) and Bartleby scales to Raven.
 
Because being able to affect infinity with infinity CAN make some form of difference since they're roughly on the same level. 3 times infinity is about as substantial of a change as adding a few pieces of candy to a giant sea of candy.

Ok and that scaling chain doesn't compare to the Embryo being able to affect an infinite versions of a character that by default has resistances to Phenomena Intervention on a 2-A level. And that happened while merely existing.
 
Ain't this battle about the creator though? Like, you can argue maybe bartleby isn't 'infinitely above' the other 2-As, but from all the information we've gotten, the Creator is as far above Bartleby/Raven/Spider as that triad is above regular mortals/the time stream, AKA, infinitely above the infinite.
 
I'm arguing that you don't need the Creator because

1.) It's more likely he's just Low 1-C and we haven't gotten around to the CRT yet

and

2.) Bartleby alone is enough

The Spiral is literally a set of infinite timelines with infinite reflections of each world in those timelines and infinite dreamworlds with infinite universes inside those dreamworlds. The Player alone is already considered enough to destroy the Spiral despite this. The Titans are so powerful that any one of the three are universally accepted to be able to destroy the Spiral by themselves, and the Player is seen as a spec of dust compared to the Storm Titan in their weakened state.

Bartleby, Raven and Spider each scale above all of that because they're able to destroy all of existence, and the Spiral, despite being what it is, is considered nothing more than an "echo" of existence.
 
First, it's never stated that there are infinite universes on those dreamworlds, the dreamworlds are created by the dreams of the mortals, so by that it can't be an infinite amount of dreamworlds unless you say there are a infinite amount of mortals, which I doubt.

I concede on the infinite timelines, but the reflections, from what I read, there is only one per timeline, so that should just make it infinity X 2, unless there are an infite amount of reflections (which I didn't find).

Corect me if I'm wrong, but that's what I obtained from reading the cosmology.
 
"First, it's never stated that there are infinite universes on those dreamworlds"

The dreamworlds are treated like universes because of how we see them in the game. The Reverie itself is the gateway between those worlds and inside it you can see numerous galaxies in the background and a black hole. When we enter Mellori's mind it's while she's searching through her old memories and she enters several different Spiral worlds in the process. Those worlds exist independently from her presence as is evident by the simple fact that they don't break down the moment she moves on to the next. You're right that it's never outright stated, but given the nature of the game and what we see from it I think it's safe to treat them as such.

"by that it can't be an infinite amount of dreamworlds unless you say there are a infinite amount of mortals, which I doubt."

It's an infinite universe with multiple worlds which house multiple sentient species per world. It isn't directly stated that there are infinite mortals but again it's easy to come to that conclusion given the nature of the game and the context we're given to it.

"I concede on the infinite timelines, but the reflections, from what I read, there is only one per timeline, so that should just make it infinity X 2, unless there are an infite amount of reflections (which I didn't find)."

It's understandable why you would assume that. The reflections are native to the Other Side, which is a realm that's rarely mentioned or talked about inside the game. We aren't really told much about it other than the fact that it's one of the places where people's spirits go to rest after their bodies die. We do know, however, that it's apparently "akin" to the Reverie, according to the Lady of the Lake, who helps us enter the Other Side.
 
It's not really as easy to just assume it is despite never being mentioned, what you're saying doesn't have anything to just jump to the conclusion "infinite universes" and it sounds more 2-B to me. Also, I never doubted the Dreamworlds being an universe, I doubted there is an infinite amount of them.

That assumption only works if there are infinite universes, and even if they were, that still isn't an infinite amount of mortals as you can't reach inifinity by stacking finite numbers.

I don't have anything else to say about the reflections, you clarified my doubts.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Ben his list of resistance on his profile tells me otherwise on him resisting everything. Also BlazBlue's 2-A hax is far beyond normal 2-A levels. Merely having just normal 2-A hax resistance is not enough when they gave
you do know there's a reason why I said that he resists that right? It's because Dispel all will not work. That's just categorized under power nullification, which is something every single character in BlazBlue that's worth a damn resists on a high end 2-A level.
Click to expand...
As I said in my comment, which was quite clearly ignored.

There is the infinite multiverse we know, however, sets of infinite timelines are created endlessly due to the sands of time. These sands are ever-flowing, represent time across the past present and future, and continuiosuly sprout another level of infinite timelines, non stop. These is infinitely above baseline; infinite sets of infinite multiverses. Not only this, as Ben mentioned, the timelines are reflected through the reflection caves. Not only this, there is the reverie, and earth, which resides in a world outside the known reality, possibly having it's own similar cosmology to the one we know right now + All of this is stated to be an echo of an even greater wheel of existence, implying this is a small part of what existence truly is.

On top of this, there is a ridiculious scaling chain of power. The strongest 2-A's are stated to be at a level every other character in existence (which would include other 2-A)'s cannot comprehend. And, we are using The Creator here. The Creator is at a level said 2-A's themselves cannot comprehend (Which I think should be High 2-A bare minimum but apparently you can't take transcendence/beyond comprehension for a higher tier anymore), so you're essentially putting another level of power on him.

The Creator simply seals away here. Raven's sealing which is at a far lower level nullified Grandfather Spider from 2-A (One of the strongest 2-A's who can destroy all of existence) to 4-C, sealed his omnipresent abstract concept of shadow magic across all of existence away like it was nothing. Furthermore, to use your own words, every 2-A that is worth a damn resists power nullification on an insane level. Bartleby and co. can still nullify them with dispel all, and there is no reason The Creator can't either.
 
All I am coming across with this is that the blog either needs a big revision, or this I of dubious truthfulness.

Which either way stops this in its tracks because that should really be added and discussed officially.
 
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